Jesus not knowing when the day of judgement is?

[Ilovejesus1234]

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

Why did Jesus say this, its not possible it was out of ignorance, he is God, he is all knowing. So that argument is out of the water. Please help me.

 

[TimothyH]

He chose not to know.

If he had known then the disciples would have asked him and he would have had to say, “I know but I’m not telling you.” He didn’t want the disciples to know when the destruction of Jerusalem would come so that they would be vigilant and look for the signs. If he had told them then they would have been lax and not noticed the signs.

As it was, not a single Christian was killed in the destruction of Jerusalem. They all escaped because they were watching and knew when it was imminent.

-Tim-

 

[esieffe]

Just a guess, [thinking about Lot and the Angels] But maybe the day of judgement will be decided based on the actions of mankind. When less then a certain amount of the riotous cannot be found.

“It means, people who are in high and responsible positions, if they go against righteousness, righteousness itself will get transformed into a destroyer.”
A. P. J. Abdul Kalam

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Well still God already knows the outcome of our free will and when & where we will all fail as a society, which will be the day Jesus comes.

Also great answer from above but still I still very puzzled by this…

 

[exnihilo]

This is one of the more challenging passages in scripture because it can seem to challenge the Trinity. As you say the person of the divinity, being God, must know. The best explanation I’ve encountered is that Jesus’ humanity did not know. The divinity of Jesus did know. How exactly that works is a mystery. But elsewhere in scripture it does say Jesus grew in wisdom. Certainly his divinity did not.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

This is one of the more challenging passages in scripture because it can seem to challenge the Trinity. As you say the person of the divinity, being God, must know. The best explanation I’ve encountered is that Jesus’ humanity did not know. The divinity of Jesus did know. How exactly that works is a mystery. But elsewhere in scripture it does say Jesus grew in wisdom. Certainly his divinity did not.

That would proclaim He was somewhat ignorant, it would deny the fact that He is all knowing at every present moment in all of time. It turns down the whole meaning of the Trinity which means all three are united at all times together.

 

[patrick457]

He chose not to know.

If he had known then the disciples would have asked him and he would have had to say, “I know but I’m not telling you.” He didn’t want the disciples to know when the destruction of Jerusalem would come so that they would be vigilant and look for the signs. If he had told them then they would have been lax and not noticed the signs.

As it was, not a single Christian was killed in the destruction of Jerusalem. They all escaped because they were watching and knew when it was imminent.

-Tim-

As Eusebius would claim, it was the presence of Christians in Jerusalem that protected the city and stalled the destruction.

That would proclaim He was somewhat ignorant, it would deny the fact that He is all knowing at every present moment in all of time. It turns down the whole meaning of the Trinity which means all three are united at all times together.

That’s really the dilemma of tackling One who has two natures. You overemphasize Jesus’ divinity and you end up making Him less human; you overemphasize His humanity and end up making Him less divine.

 

[thistle]

CCC 472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”, and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

CCC 474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

 

[MaryT777]

CCC 472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”, and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

CCC 474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

Thanks for the CCC references!~
Mary.

 

[TimothyH]

As Eusebius would claim, it was the presence of Christians in Jerusalem that protected the city and stalled the destruction.

That’s really the dilemma of tackling One who has two natures. You overemphasize Jesus’ divinity and you end up making Him less human; you overemphasize His humanity and end up making Him less divine.

Yeah, everyone expects him to jump out of the womb and start doing multivariable calculus and theoretical astrophysics.

He assumed human nature with all of its limitations. He gets hungry, angry, cries and ultimately, like all humans, dies. At times however, he chooses to step beyond those limitations - he commands the sea and sky, walks on water, disappears and reappears, raises the dead and walks out of his own tomb. People seem to forget that he willingly assumed a human state. Not knowing the hour was part of being human, that’s all.

And I hate to shake up this thread, but not knowing has nothing to do with the end of time. It’s about the destruction of Jerusalem.

-Tim-

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

CCC 472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”, and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

CCC 474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

Ok, so you’re now saying that He did have limited understanding in His human life and could only know that the second coming was going to happen. He didn’t know the exact date because my guess is that He knew the details of it but not the exact date because His way of counting time was way different than ours.

Also when He was human on earth, would you say that He is still finite, or is that when He died and got His glorified body, He became infinite? My guess is that He became infinite and started to know everything and was no longer a limited human but unlimited God, if that makes sense.

Also would He know the future during His life on earth? Would He have been able to see me right now in this time frame, and understand that i loved him while i am praying my divine mercy chaplet. While He also understood many people throwing Him out of their hearts at this present moment.

My guess is He would have felt it most prominently during His passion, the good and bad, of what everyone gave Him in the world, i read this way of thinking in many books and use it when i pray my chaplet, i usually think of all the bad everyone gave Him and how all of time rejected Him, while i at this moment gave Him happiness during his passion with the love i fed towards Him. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

bump

 

[patrick457]

Yeah, everyone expects him to jump out of the womb and start doing multivariable calculus and theoretical astrophysics.

He assumed human nature with all of its limitations. He gets hungry, angry, cries and ultimately, like all humans, dies. At times however, he chooses to step beyond those limitations - he commands the sea and sky, walks on water, disappears and reappears, raises the dead and walks out of his own tomb. People seem to forget that he willingly assumed a human state. Not knowing the hour was part of being human, that’s all.

Thank goodness we no longer need to go into the extreme some early Christians (usually the Alexandrians like Origen or Clement) went: they thought Jesus never really went hungry or needed to eat, in fact He never felt any real pleasure or pain, because well, He is God. Oh, and apparently He could also turn invisible or shapeshift at well. Again, because He’s God. They were not Docetists (in fact, they’ll say He ate food if only to keep up appearances of being human, precisely to prevent people from falling into Docetism) but they had an overly-divine view of Jesus that made Him look more like Superman than an average human being.

 

[TimothyH]

Thank goodness we no longer need to go into the extreme some early Christians (usually the Alexandrians like Origen or Clement) went: they thought Jesus never really went hungry or needed to eat, in fact He never felt any real pleasure or pain, because well, He is God. Oh, and apparently He could also turn invisible or shapeshift at well. Again, because He’s God. They were not Docetists (in fact, they’ll say He ate food if only to keep up appearances of being human, precisely to prevent people from falling into Docetism) but they had an overly-divine view of Jesus that made Him look more like Superman than an average human being.

Many here at CAF struggle with this. It is difficult to understand.

The point to remember is that he was fully human and chose to accept all the limitations that come with being human. He could also step past those limitations when he chose to do so. For Jesus it was a choice. If he slept in the back of the boat it was by choice. If he walked on water it was by choice. If he did not know something which the Father knows then it was by choice.

God chose to be human. It is something I am coming to appreciate - the absolute gift of the incarnation - that the creator of the universe would willingly become a human and accept all the baggage that comes with it. It is something I am learning from the Opus Dei guys.

-Tim-

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Many here at CAF struggle with this. It is difficult to understand.

The point to remember is that he was fully human and chose to accept all the limitations that come with being human. He could also step past those limitations when he chose to do so. For Jesus it was a choice. If he slept in the back of the boat it was by choice. If he walked on water it was by choice. If he did not know something which the Father knows then it was by choice.

God chose to be human. It is something I am coming to appreciate - the absolute gift of the incarnation - that the creator of the universe would willingly become a human and accept all the baggage that comes with it. It is something I am learning from the Opus Dei guys.

-Tim-

Ok i see, so before he was born god the son and the rest of the trinity had a group meeting and god pretty much said, ok when i am human i will be limited to not knowing the exact time of the judgement but i will still have a somewhat clear visual of it, due to my human limits this is all i can do. The trinity said ok and then he was born with limits due to being human. One of which was the exact date of the judgement, yet he still knew it would happen but in a partial view.

But when he became resurrected and was glorified in his glorified body, was able to fully know when the judgement was? Since he is no longer human, well sorta human, but mainly now he is god?

 

[jbp]

Well still God already knows the outcome of our free will and when & where we will all fail as a society, which will be the day Jesus comes.

Also great answer from above but still I still very puzzled by this…

There is one God. We believe in one God.
The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. There are not three gods but one God.
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Father.
The Father is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.
The Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Son.

Read and profess the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed and Athanasian Creed. That is what it means to believe in the Catholic faith and in the mystery of the Trinity in one God.

The creeds answer all your questions to save you from confusion. Let’s not reopen and re-discuss what had been settled centuries ago. Obviously questions like these will always come up but it’s like rediscussing a mathematical conjecture when it fact it was a theorem that was already proven and settled. I’m not saying that you or others shouldn’t ask these questions, what I’m saying is that the answers to your questions have been present for a long time, all you need is look it up.

Start with the creeds of the Catholic Faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church of course is a broader corpus of answers.

For free will to exist, God must not KNOW the future. But that doesn’t prevent Him from planning it or predicting it - and a lot better than you (or anything) can, obviously.

God bless.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

God knows how our free will end up, whether we do bad or good he knows the future of each our free will, we cannot grasp this because we are only human, he allows and stops evil & he limits and allows others to do evil … he controls everything…if i decided to do something contrary to the way of god, he would know each detail of what i would do and how it would end, how he knows this is unknown… believe me i spent a long time thinking about it and just gave up on it and left it to faith.

I know there aren’t 3 gods, they are all united, one but also 3…I was just coloring a picture that i thought made somewhat sense, i wasn’t being realistic, forgive me if i seemed to be.

 

[TimothyH]

Ok i see, so before he was born god the son and the rest of the trinity had a group meeting and god pretty much said, ok when i am human i will be limited to not knowing the exact time of the judgement but i will still have a somewhat clear visual of it, due to my human limits this is all i can do. The trinity said ok and then he was born with limits due to being human. One of which was the exact date of the judgement, yet he still knew it would happen but in a partial view.

But when he became resurrected and was glorified in his glorified body, was able to fully know when the judgement was? Since he is no longer human, well sorta human, but mainly now he is god?

This isn’t something I made up. Please read paragraph 472 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

-Tim-

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Ok i see so now is his human limits taken off since he is now resurrected and in heaven?