Jesus of Catholics vs Protestants?

[BrownR]

How do Catholics respond to a Protestants claim that they have a much more “personal” relationship with Jesus than Catholics? Before easily dismissing such a seemingly facile claim, give it a minute of thought and tell me why you think a Protestant would claim something like this, and why?

It’s been my observation that Protestant churches are very focused on an emotional, internalized, extremely personal relationship with Jesus. I’ve had limited experience in the Catholic Church so far, but I’m curious if most Catholics would say they feel themselves to have this same relationship to Jesus that Protestants claim, or would you say the Catholic faith stresses different perspectives of the relationship with Christ? I can’t decide if I’m just imagining some sort of dichotomy, or if it’s part of something deeper. The protestant Jesus is a Jesus that forgives all, asking nothing in return except their faith which leads into the basic theological ideas of sola fide, etc… I sometimes wonder if this belief in justification through faith alone somehow facilitates a more personalized and “buddy” view of Christ and his part in their life? I somehow think more evangelical Christians would feel more comfortable calling Jesus their best friend, whereas a Catholic would not. Any thoughts?

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

 

[Atreyu]

A Catholic’s relationship with Jesus is much closer than a Protestant’s could ever be. We receive his body and blood in the Eucharist. How much closer can you get than that?

 

[BrownR]

It might even be an unreasonable question to ask considering I’m uncertain whether many cradle catholics could answer it having never been exposed deeply to the protestant faith.

Are there any converts from protestantism to catholicism who can tell me whether they feel their relationship or view of Christ changed in any way following their conversion?

 

[VociMike]

…The protestant Jesus is a Jesus that forgives all, asking nothing in return except their faith which leads into the basic theological ideas of sola fide, etc…

I think C.S. Lewis had a better understanding of the Catholic view (though he wasn’t Catholic):

"Doubtless, by definition, God was Reason itself. But would He also be “reasonable” in that other, more comfortable sense? Not the slightest assurance on that score was offered me. Total surrender, the absolute leap in the dark, were demanded. The reality with which no treaty can be made was upon me. The demand was not even “All or nothing.” I think that stage had been passed, on the bus top when I unbuckled my armor and the snowman started to melt. Now, the demand was simply “All.”

– from his wonderful autobiography, “Surprised by Joy”

That is what Catholicism teaches that Christ asks of us in return – All. A complete and total self-giving to God. And of course we all fail, and we are forgiven, but the request “All” is forever in our ears. Total surrender. The very life of the Trinity.

I sometimes wonder if this belief in justification through faith alone somehow facilitates a more personalized and “buddy” view of Christ and his part in their life? I somehow think more evangelical Christians would feel more comfortable calling Jesus their best friend, whereas a Catholic would not. Any thoughts?

I would be more inclined to call Him Savior, Redeemer, Bridegroom, Father, Brother, Love. I think “best friend” really trivializes what He has done for us, what He has made us to be, and what He freely offers to us.

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

I think it can be richer, because the teachings, the liturgy, the prayer life, the culture of Christ’s Church can make it richer.

 

[Mommyof02green]

How do Catholics respond to a Protestants claim that they have a much more “personal” relationship with Jesus than Catholics?

How do you know what my “personal” relationship is like?? How do you know when and how I talk to Christ??? How do you know when and how Christ speaks to me??? Did Christ tell you theses things???

Before easily dismissing such a seemingly facile claim, give it a minute of thought and tell me why you think a Protestant would claim something like this, and why?

I don’t know why they do… sometimes I don’t understand Catholics clam they have more personal relationship. Truly a “Personal” relationship is personal. The only way to judge is if you truly know what kind of a relationship the other person has. It is wrong to assume that if they call themselves “Christian” they have a real personal relationship. Just like it wrong to assume that every person that calls himself or herself a “Catholic-Christian” has a real personal relationship. After all Christ said “Not everyone that calls me Lord will enter Heaven (Mathew 7:21-23)

It’s been my observation that Protestant churches are very focused on an emotional, internalized, extremely personal relationship with Jesus. I’ve had limited experience in the Catholic Church so far, but I’m curious if most Catholics would say they feel themselves to have this same relationship to Jesus that Protestants claim, or would you say the Catholic faith stresses different perspectives of the relationship with Christ?

Truthfully, I don’t know what is more personal then actually sitting in a chapel in the presence of Christ. I don’t know what is more personal then truly and honestly receiving Him in the Holy Eucharist. I don’t know what is more personal then meditation on the Mysteries of the Holy Rosary. To meditate on the mysteries of the Holy Rosary is to meditate on the Gospel. To meditate on the Gospel is to meditate on Christ. I don’t know what is more personal then to read and study scripture. To know Holy Scripture is to Know Christ. To be ignorant of Holy Scripture is to be ignorant of Christ (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 133)

I can’t decide if I’m just imagining some sort of dichotomy, or if it’s part of something deeper. The protestant Jesus is a Jesus that forgives all, asking nothing in return except their faith which leads into the basic theological ideas of sola fide, etc…

Salvation is a free gift. Yes, Jesus forgives all. However He does ask us a lot more of us then just faith. Read: Mathew 7:21-23 we are told to keep His Father’s Commandments. Read: Mathew 25:31-45 we are told to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, etc. There are more scripture passages however, these 2 are a good start and show that there is more then just having faith.

I sometimes wonder if this belief in justification through faith alone somehow facilitates a more personalized and “buddy” view of Christ and his part in their life?

maybe you should read this Scriptural Reference Guide or SALVATION or Meeting Christ in the Liturgy

I somehow think more evangelical Christians would feel more comfortable calling Jesus their best friend, whereas a Catholic would not. Any thoughts?

As a Catholic-Christian I have no problems saying Christ is my Best Friend!!! I will sing it from the rooftops!

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

I will say at times I believe that SOME Catholics have a deeper relationship with Christ because of the Eucharist. However, I do know that SOME Non-Catholics have a deep relationship with Christ. I don’t like labels that say this sect is better then that sect. This is because there are people within both sects Non-Catholic-Christians and Catholic-Christians that don’t have any kind of Personal Relationship with Christ. Personal Relationship is Personal… Each INDIVIDUAL person can only judge by his or her TRUE Relationship with Christ. He or She CANNOT be judged by the label (i.e. Christian, Catholic-Christian) they use.

 

[water]

If one says I am closer to Jesus yet he does not adore and ackowledge who Virgin Mary is - free of sin, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, etc…then this person is not as closer to Jesus as he thinks he is.

If you have a daugher or son getting married, do you want to know your in-law better? When you want to be with Jesus - his Bride, do you want to know His Mother more? or you say I don’t care about my in-law?

 

[levi86]

If one says I am closer to Jesus yet he does not adore and ackowledge who Virgin Mary is - free of sin, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven, etc…then this person is not as closer to Jesus as he thinks he is.

If you have a daugher or son getting married, do you want to know your in-law better? When you want to be with Jesus - his Bride, do you want to know His Mother more? or you say I don’t care about my in-law?

One can have a perfect and complete relationship with Christ without having a devotion to Our Lady. Knowing Mary is not a prerequisite for knowing Christ.

 

[carol_marie]

Convert to the Catholic Church here… I’ll speak only for myself.

As a Protestant, I often felt a deep love for Christ… until that feeling went away - which sounds so silly but it’s true. That was the thing… it was always about how I felt - my emotions. Oh sometimes the worship leader would try to make me feel Him more by a particular song we’d sing… (sometimes 6 times)… but if I wasn’t “in the mood” - there was nothing else.

As a Catholic, it’s never about how I “feel” because I believe Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. When I go to mass I enter a holy place. I can “smell” the incense - touch the holy water - look at Christ on the cross… and kneel before Him and receive Him in the Eucharist - which is so very powerful for me. All of those things help me connect with him on a much deeper level than I ever did as a Protestant.

 

[water]

One can have a perfect and complete relationship with Christ without having a devotion to Our Lady. Knowing Mary is not a prerequisite for knowing Christ.

You are right, one does not need to have a devotion to Virgin Mary, but if one does not believe all who she is, then he is not that close to Jesus. I am sure Jesus wants us to have a close relationship with Virgin Mary.

 

[Mommyof02green]

You are right, one does not need to have a devotion to Virgin Mary, but if one does not believe all who she is, then he is not that close to Jesus. I am sure Jesus wants us to have a close relationship with Virgin Mary.

I understand what you are trying to say Water.

I married my husband, I know my husband, Love my husband, admire my husband. I did not meet his mother before him. I did not get to know his mother before I got to know him. However I do know him better, because I got to know his Mom.

Likewise, My husband married me; He loves me, and admires me. He didn’t not meet my mother, before he met me. He didn’t get to know my mother, before he got to know me. However, he does know me better because he does know my Mom.

Being apart of the Bride of Christ (the Church) make us the “spouse” of Christ. We can know him. We can Love HIM. We can Worship Him. We do not need to meet His Mother.

However, it is possible to know HIM better when we get to know HIS Mom. After all Mary raised HIM. She bathed Him, Helped HIM learn to walk, dressed HIM, and Told HIM stories, Feed HIM. Think about she did for HIM all the things, your Mother has done for you.

In my opinion the people that know you the best in order are

1. God
2. yourself
3. Your parents (especially Mom)
4. Your Spouse
5. Your friends
6. Your children

 

[rwoehmke]

Having been in several interdenominational prayer groups I would observe that non-Catholics seemed to have what I called a “God in a box” relationship. If I pray just so using the right words God must respond to what I want. Sort of like having Jesus in your pocket or on a string. They were in control of the relationship rather than the otherway around, which is how I think Catholics feel.

 

[MountainMan]

Brown -

It seems to me that the difference is that most Evangelicals I know and those I hear on the radio (sadly, we don’t have a Catholic station in the Denver area) place a great deal of emphasis on having a ‘personal relationship’ with Jesus, which Catholics have not done in that kind of language. Carol Marie had it right, I think, when she noticed how dependent on emotion those ‘personal relationships’ tend to be in Evangelical churches, while in the Catholic tradition true and complete relationship can always be found in the Eucharist.

I want to add that until I attended a Christians Encounter Christ weekend (a shorter version of a Cursillo), I never thought of my relationship with Christ as ‘personal.’ Since that weekend (in 1993), however, I have known Him in a way I would not have thought possible. I encourage anyone to attend a Cursillo; though some don’t find fulfillment in the weekend as I did, most seem to benefit from it in some way. The real beauty of it, for me, is that is not JUST a weekend, but, if you choose, a lifelong comittment to growing closer to the Lord with a group of fellow Christians.

Chuck

 

[Liberian]

BrownR,

What the Protestants are reacting to is the Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints. They think that because we pray to people besides Jesus, we do not have such a close relationship with Jesus Himself.

I found when I converted from Protestantism that the “personal relationship” that I had had with Jesus got a whole lot deeper when I started eating His true Body and Blood. As another respondent said, it’s hard to get more personal than that.

• Liberian

 

[Reformed_Rob]

It’s been my observation that Protestant churches are very focused on an emotional, internalized, extremely personal relationship with Jesus. I’ve had limited experience in the Catholic Church so far, but I’m curious if most Catholics would say they feel themselves to have this same relationship to Jesus that Protestants claim, or would you say the Catholic faith stresses different perspectives of the relationship with Christ?

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

Brown,

Neat question. I haven’t read all the thread, but just some of it so far. So forgive me if I repeat what someone else said.

This is just me, Catholicism is so “big” that many different answers could be given, all of them good.

I was Protestant before I became Catholic this Easter. I know what it’s like to have a more “personal feeling” relationship with Christ. And that’s a good thing. However, it’s something that great saints have been talking about for a long time. Like my patron saint, St. Francis de Sales. And others.

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen (not a canonized saint) talked about knowing Christ personally, not just on a “I know about Him” level.

Also, the Diocescian DRE for my diocese, Sr. Cathy, a Dominican sister, she stressed that at a class I attended. About growing from knowing about a person to actually knowing them personally.

So, it’s not like Catholics don’t have a clue what in the world Protestants are saying they experience that we don’t. In many cases it depends on what one is exposed to in their life.

Perhaps a tangible difference that is worth pointing out is one of the 4 “Marks of the Church.” It’s Apostolicity. And by that I mean like the historic aspect of it.

Protestants may be able to trace their traditions back a couple decades or a couple hundred years, but we go back a little farther than that. You might say we go “all the way” back. For us to say “I experienced worship today” may be very different than what a Protestant would mean by the same words. Aspects of our faith are more tangible to us. We experience God “today” in the reality of the Mystical Body of Christ and in the Sacraments when we receive them. And that experience goes “all the way” back to long before we were even alive.

And that itself can have a noticeable effect. In a good way, adding to the personal aspect.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

BrownR,

What the Protestants are reacting to is the Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints. They think that because we pray to people besides Jesus, we do not have such a close relationship with Jesus Himself.

• Liberian

Yes!! I second that!! Actually I had a friend tell me that recently. "Why do you pray to all those other dead people? And why don’t you just pray what’s in your heart instead of written prayers?"

Little did they know, they are not just “other dead people” which I attempted to explain, and that I for one do pray what’s on my heart. But the written prayers are chock full of meaning that can usually express what I want to say way better than what I could come up with just on my own. I mean, as long as you mean what you’re saying, recited or not, that’s the point. So if you honestly mean what the written prayer says, it’s the best of both worlds.

At least, that’s my take.

 

[TobyLue]

This is my take on it. Yes, many people love to call Jesus “my friend”. It is important to know Jesus personally and not just a figure from the Bible. But what I see, is that many look at only the human Jesus and fail to see past that to the Divine. I feel that many see Jesus as a person who if we say the proper words and we claim it as long as we ask in His name, He is there with a wand to give us what we have asked and He has to give it to us because we demand it from Him and He promised us because He came to give us life to abundance. We fail to see that Jesus is the Supreme God. I think that as Catholics, we worship Jesus more, through the veneration of the Blessed Sacrament, through meditation of His life with the Rosary. We recall the pains Jesus suffered for us by praying, meditating, and reflecting on the Way of the Cross. We ask for forgiveness by humbling ourselves in the Sacrament of reconciliation, meditating and praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, etc. We do the ultimate prayer by attending Sunday Mass and as often as possible. When I was wandering years back going to some non-denominational church, what I saw and experience was a high by singing songs that made us feel us good, clapping and shouting for joy. We came out of there on a high but those “highs” don’t last long. I came to realize that we have to go by what we know rather than buy what we feel. I used to say that I didn’t get anything out of the mass, but failed to realize that it’s not what I get out of it but what I put into it that is important. Sometimes I felt that the Protestant services that I attended were to make me feel good. I now understand that all these Catholic Devotions are for God because He deserves it. As we say in the Act of Contrition, “…I detest all my sins because Idread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but MOST OF ALL BECAUSE **I **HAVE OFFENDED THEE, MY GOD…”
Anyway, that my:twocents: worth…

 

[StMarkEofE]

How do Catholics respond to a Protestants claim that they have a much more “personal” relationship with Jesus than Catholics? Before easily dismissing such a seemingly facile claim, give it a minute of thought and tell me why you think a Protestant would claim something like this, and why?

It’s been my observation that Protestant churches are very focused on an emotional, internalized, extremely personal relationship with Jesus. I’ve had limited experience in the Catholic Church so far, but I’m curious if most Catholics would say they feel themselves to have this same relationship to Jesus that Protestants claim, or would you say the Catholic faith stresses different perspectives of the relationship with Christ? I can’t decide if I’m just imagining some sort of dichotomy, or if it’s part of something deeper. The protestant Jesus is a Jesus that forgives all, asking nothing in return except their faith which leads into the basic theological ideas of sola fide, etc… I sometimes wonder if this belief in justification through faith alone somehow facilitates a more personalized and “buddy” view of Christ and his part in their life? I somehow think more evangelical Christians would feel more comfortable calling Jesus their best friend, whereas a Catholic would not. Any thoughts?

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian I can’t imagine a more personal relationship with Christ than the actual reception of His Body and Blood in the Holy Eucharist. Im sure that the Romans will agree on this point as well.

YOU CANT GET ANY MORE PERSONAL THAN THIS!

 

[TobyLue]

But the written prayers are chock full of meaning that can usually express what I want to say way better than what I could come up with just on my own.

This is so true. I just cannot understand why many Protestants object to Catholic Prayer Books. But I see many Protestant Services where the pastor tells the congregation to bow their heads and close their eyes and then he proceeds to say a prayer for all to reflect on. So what’s the difference in that vs a prayer book?

 

[BrownR]

Excellent responses, much thanks. I began comparatively analyzing this particular aspect of the “two faiths” recently after I watched a short, inspirational Christian video clip other day and had a rush of overwhelming emotions due to the background music which had much to do about a personalized relationship with Jesus. It reminded me so much of past Protestant experiences that are so emotionally charged and driven a great deal by “feeling” and emotional intuition. I’m sure many Catholics might be cross by my implication that they are experiencing a somehow “less emotional” relationship with Christ, but that’s not exactly what I’m trying to say. I think the ex-Protestants understand what I mean when I describe the emotional aspect of their relationship to Christ, especially from a charismatic evangelical viewpoint, but that goes for most other denominations too I would think. After all, this “emotive worship” is what many protestant “revival” gatherings are centered around. It depends very much on this rush of feelings that sweeps the neo-Christian off their feet and is explained to be the work of the Holy Spirit.

Anyway, as a Protestant for most of my life, I was always taught that these emotions are the work of the Holy Spirit and that a good Protestant should always strive to “feel” Jesus at all times. It’s a strange mentality and difficult to articulate and I’m sure even more difficult for cradle Catholics to understand if they haven’t been exposed to it. I was just struggling with some fearful thoughts that perhaps I was heading in the wrong direction by pursuing Catholicism because it didn’t “feel” as emotional as some moments in my Protestant life, and from a Protestant point of view, “feeling less” is synonymous with being further away from the Holy Spirit. Jesus was always presented to me as Lord first, but equally so as a “friend” and confider. I think the teaching of “faith alone” helps facilitate this attitude because it depicts Jesus more as someone who expects nothing more than faith and love in exchange for total justification. (I realize this is not entirely true, but I’m trying to be simplistic.) Protestants are taught to “believe” in Jesus and “let Him into your heart” as a transformational process driven by the power of the Holy Spirit at work in the person’s emotions. With that said, that’s very much how Protestants interpret scripture. They depend on a “feeling” to know whether the Holy Spirit is leading their interpretation along the correct path or not. It’s not logical, but it’s tangible which is why I think many of them are unwilling to let go of this approach to the Word. “How can something that feels so right be wrong?”

Anyway, I’m all over the place and I’m probably thinking way too much about this. In any event, I was originally just curious as to if any ex-Protestants could relate to my observations and how they feel their relationship with Jesus has changed, and I was also curious to hear about how Catholics view their relationship with Jesus. It’s helped a great deal hearing everyone’s thoughts. In the end, the entire thing is related to my periodic rumination that there might be a 1% chance that I’m making a mistake by leaving something that “felt so right” at times. This leads to a fear that Christ will somehow become more distant to me than before. Of course, you have to keep in mind that I’m still in RCIA and can’t even take part in any of the sacraments as of yet, so I’m sure that being able to partake of the Eucharist will expand my relationship with Christ on many levels.

I hope I made some sense in all my rambling and if not, thanks for the many responses because they helped a great deal.I know in my head that these “emotional highs” from Protestant worship are transient in nature, psychological to a large degree, and not always indicative of a “oneness with God”, but it’s sometimes hard to train yourself out of “bad habits” so to speak.

 

[petra]

How do Catholics respond to a Protestants claim that they have a much more “personal” relationship with Jesus than Catholics? Before easily dismissing such a seemingly facile claim, give it a minute of thought and tell me why you think a Protestant would claim something like this, and why?

It’s been my observation that Protestant churches are very focused on an emotional, internalized, extremely personal relationship with Jesus. I’ve had limited experience in the Catholic Church so far, but I’m curious if most Catholics would say they feel themselves to have this same relationship to Jesus that Protestants claim, or would you say the Catholic faith stresses different perspectives of the relationship with Christ? I can’t decide if I’m just imagining some sort of dichotomy, or if it’s part of something deeper. The protestant Jesus is a Jesus that forgives all, asking nothing in return except their faith which leads into the basic theological ideas of sola fide, etc… I sometimes wonder if this belief in justification through faith alone somehow facilitates a more personalized and “buddy” view of Christ and his part in their life? I somehow think more evangelical Christians would feel more comfortable calling Jesus their best friend, whereas a Catholic would not. Any thoughts?

I guess I’m just curious as to whether you think a catholic’s relationship with Christ is different than a protestant’s and why you might think this to be. Thanks in advance.

As Liberian pointed out, Protestants assume that prayers to saints diminish Catholics’ reliance upon Christ and lessen the possibility of a “relationship with Christ.”

As a former Protestant, I recall my own impression that “religion” precluded relationship. In other words, I believed that there was Christianity, in which our salvation was a free gift from a loving Personal Savior, and then there was every other creed in the world which stipulated that one must work to achieve God’s favor and salvation. Working was religion. The real deal was a relationship. Most Protestants see Catholics as deeply “religious” people who are missing out on a true relationship. Of course, this is based on a gross misunderstanding and ignorance about grace, faith, and works. They judge something they do not understand.

I am a convert to Catholicism, but my background included involvement with Campus Crusade for Christ in college and active participation in evangelical churches for the next 22 years. Early on, my relationship with God was very emotional, but that feeling languished later on, in spite of remaining active in ministry and church leadership.

As a Catholic, my relationship with Jesus is very, very personal, but perhaps less emotional than my college days, but also much richer than my later Protestant years. There is a much deeper sustaining quality about it. It’s hard to explain. I guess I could say it is similar to the difference between happiness and joy or the difference between infatuation and the deep, sustaining love and commitment in marriage. Catholics absolutely have a more deeply personal relationship with Christ. As others have pointed out, how could we not with the spiritual nourishment we receive in the Eucharist?

petra