Jesus of Nazareth was not a Christian!

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Asa Ben Judah:
Whatever happened to the movement lead by the Apostles of Jesus Christ?
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It is alive and well in the hearts and minds of those who seek God’s kingdom. It is alive and well in the hearts and minds of those who practice forgiveness. It is alive and well in the lives of those who love God more than money, fame, power, education, anything else.

It is a movement that has a history which means that certain events happened in certain times and certain places. Its beginning and early spread was closely linked to the existence of the Roman Empire which gives a certain historical signficance to the Bishop of Rome. There are many who disagree on how significant that significance is. I can’t claim to know perfectly its true significance but I am convinced the significance is real.

While Jesus certainly criticized the religious mainstream of his day, He directed his followers to observe their decrees even though they should not always follow their example. He was perhaps not quite so radical as you suggest.

peace

-Jim
 
Asa Ben Judah:
You mentioned the Eucharist, where in the New Testament is this doctrine about Transubstantiation?
But hey, I am open to sensible debate.
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Let’s focus on Momonism, Asa.

Where in the New Testament can we find the scripture which forms the basis of the Mormon teaching that Lucifer is the brother of Christ?
 
Asa Ben Judah, I agree with the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew, not a Christian, since the definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. So Jesus’s Apostles were called Christians to differentiate the Jews who believed in the Messiah,from those who did not. To say Jesus was not a supporter sounds like your doubting your own believes. Just keep the faith in God and will lead you the way he wants. God bless everyone !
 
Asa Ben Judah:
Jesus of Nazareth was a radical Jew!
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Jesus is an orthodox Jew. He is also the messiah. And most importantly He is the Son of God.

God’s (as messiah) incarnation on Earth enhanced our relationship with Him.

Why do you present Jesus as some sort of radical? It makes it seem as if you think He were only a man (and a radical theologian or free-thinker at that!!!). Please be more direct and clear with what you are trying to say and with what you mean.
 
Asa Ben Judah:
My agenda is to ascertain the truth, what is yours?
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In all honesty, what appeared in your original post was not a question of ascertaining anything. It was a blatant declaration of your truth as you see it. There was no ascertaining in that post. To ascertain one must seek. By the tone of your post, you have obviously already found the truth and undertaken to (name removed by moderator)art it to all readers of your post.
 
Jesus of Nazaret was Christ Himself. All His followers were called “Christians” because of Christ. It’s that simple, and don’t confuse the matter.

Pio
 
Peace be with you Asa,

If you could be so kind, please offer me some examples of Jesus Christ being “radical”? As can be easily evidenced by Jews and Muslims, meeting of the minimums of Law does not breed the fellowship and love needed to bring about a state of Grace upon a people or a nation. We must recognize that the Law merely attempts to keep at bay the effects of sin within our communities. Exterior constraints only imposts a tyranny over the Interior and never causes change from the “inside/out” which is the mark of the true manifestation of our human vocation as “Children of G-d” over the our Sinful Nature which is the mark of our rejection of G-d and our turning away from Him. It is not my understanding that Jesus taught anything “radical” or even different from the original “meaning” of the Law but He did deepen the Jewish understanding of the Law and taught how to bring the Law into one’s interior as a method of manifesting our human vocation as “Children of G-d” and members of His Kingdom.

May G-d continue to bring us greater understanding. Amen.

Peace, Love and Blessings,
 
Radical? Jesus is GOD!
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and withouh him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darness has not overcome it.

Then our Lord and God built a Church:
Mt 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven…

We know that the Church spoken here is the Catholic Church!

We know that there has never been a “Great Apostasy”, because Jesus Christ, our GOD said it couldn’t happen.

We know that for the first 1600 years, the fathers of our Church taught the very same teachings that we hold true today.

We know that there has been no continuing revelation since the last apostle died in 100 AD.

We know that Joseph Smith was a man of God, but he was wrong.

We know the books of Mormon are not biblical

We pray that all Mormons will some day find the true Jesus
Christ, Second person of the Trinity and God of the Universe.

Our prayers are with you…
 
Well, if he doesn’t realize the Truth, he will, I suppose, be on his mother planet with all of his dead family when he passes away…this is a belief, is it not, Asa?
 
This Movement is very much alive in me. For I have received the same revelation as to whom Jesus is, who I am. The Same revelation that Augustine also received. God is our Creator, He is our Life, and we see Him through Christ, the very imprint of His being. If we are tempted to look for rewards in heaven we must remind ourselves that this reward would be God. That evrything else would fall into it’s proper place.

“Lord, you are not pleased with someone simply because that person is knowledgeable. In fact, it would be possible for one to know everything there is to know in the whole wide world, except for knowing you, and consequently know nothing. Just as another person could live in blissful ignorance of the great sum of human knowledge, but know you, and be both happy and content. After all, who is better placed - the person who owns a tree and gives You thanks for all the good things it provides; or the one who owns a similar tree and knows its weight and dimensions down to the least leaf, but does not realize that You are its Creator and that it is through You that he or she has use of it? In essence, the latter person is ignorant, though full of facts, and the former person wise, though bit short on details.”

So in general we can say that the most important knowledge is knowledge of You, O Lord."…St. Augustine
 
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StratusRose:
Well you’ve come to the right place.
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Don’t get me wrong I think it’s great the Mormons live pious lives. No drinking, no swearing, great family ties, and so on.

And in this they have been taught to show that the LDS Church is better than the Catholic Church, with a better people.

But as a Catholic where would I go to find a better people? As we are all fallen just the same in Gods eyes.

The Mormon Faith does not accept the symbol of the Cross. They have been taught that it is an evil symbol of the Catholic Church. To understand the Passion of Christ as something we did to Christ is not a place that is familiar to them. They do not see the fall as a bad thing, even though our savior had to endure this Passion for His beloved creation that left His very grace for theri own, and I am speaking about all of us. Satan Hates the Cross and would do, does everything to distance himself away from it. He hates the Mass as Christ is present in it for us to heal. He hates the Catholic Church because we confront our Fallen Nature, His nature and have the Sacraments to be healed of it. He hates Jesus and does whatever he can to take his children from Him. He can do this in the darkness of evilness, and he can do this in the distorted light of Christ. He trys to destroy the Catholic Faith within its confines as well as on the outside. But it never will fail, we may fail it, but it will never fail us.
C
Christ is the Truth, we on the other hand as His creation can come to find this truth. We could never be the Truth. Christ is the light, we on the other hand can come to live in His light.

The devil is jeolouse of Jesus, His creator. He will do whatever he can do to take us away from Christ by feeding on our fallen nature, that which wants to be a Christ, apart from Him.
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409) - Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This is very much real and really should be thought about.
 
As to the use of this quote below I just want to make this clear to Ben. Ben we as Catholics know what Joseph Smith was saying here. It is what we as Catholics know in our hearts when we sin. When we sin, and we do, we our doing the same thing in a sense because sin is sin. It all kills us and separates us from God, and this is the devils game and what we are all up against. This is what a pursuit of our own center does, it is the Devils nature, in each of us. This nature hated Christ and His works. But as we learn about this nature, as Catholics we do, we try to die to it. We do die to it by accepting Christ as our only hope in defeating it. This is why we look to the Cross. So it is with a relationship with Him that we walk to the Cross to be crucified with Christ as to rise in Him. It is the opposite of this quote below. Our lives in our faith are lived to be healed of this fallen nature.We are not in the pursuit of our Glory, we live to be in His. This is where eternal life is found and honored. We know who God is, we know who we are. We choose Him through His Son.

“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet…When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409) - Joseph Smith: founder, prophet, seer, and revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 
Asa Ben Judah:
My point?

Might is not Right, and the bigger they come the greater the fall.
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Well said Asa. I have many friends who call themselves Jewish Christians - or Jews who follow Christ. They keep all of the Jewish holidays - not the pagan holidays that most Christians keep.

Your sister in Christ,

Melissa
 
I don’t understand why people post things to cause controversy, then get upset when they find opposition…and say things like "well…thats why I’ll never be Catholic (or christian, or whatever…). What do you want and what are you looking for?
 
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NewChristian27:
Well said Asa. I have many friends who call themselves Jewish Christians - or Jews who follow Christ. They keep all of the Jewish holidays - not the pagan holidays that most Christians keep.

Your sister in Christ,

Melissa
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I’m sorry…what pagan holidays?
 
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StephiePea:
I’m sorry…what pagan holidays?
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Christmas and Easter. I know these have come to represent Christian holidays, but they came to be what they are today in order to convert pagans. I’m not saying that is a negative thing, but I always think it’s important to know the history behind these things.
 
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NewChristian27:
Christmas and Easter. I know these have come to represent Christian holidays, but they came to be what they are today in order to convert pagans. I’m not saying that is a negative thing, but I always think it’s important to know the history behind these things.
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It seems to me that what you are stating in an opinion…what proof do you have that the history behind Easter and Christmas are pagan?
 
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StephiePea:
It seems to me that what you are stating in an opinion…what proof do you have that the history behind Easter and Christmas are pagan?
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Let me reiterate that I’m not saying that Christmas as Christians observe it is pagan. What I am saying is that the history behind when and how Christmas and Easter are celebrated is pagan in its roots. I’m sure your Priest will tell you the same thing, if he knows his history. Especially considering that it was a Pope that decided to declare December 25th as Jesus’ birthday. That’s why you need to go to your history books. Why did the Pope choose December 25th? Is there biblical proof that Jesus was born around that time - or even in winter at all? Actually, many historians believe that Jesus was born in Spring since the Bible mentions shepards herding which was not common in winter. It would be impossible for me to tell you the traditions of every country so I’ll focus mainly on Rome.

During this time of the winter solstice Romans celebrated a holiday in honor of Saturn, the god of agriculture and another holiday in honor of the children. Members of the upper-classes often celebrated the birthday of Mithra, god of the unconquerable sun, on December 25th. For some Romans, this was the most sacred day of the year.

When the Pope declared that December 25th was Jesus’ birthday it increased the chance that some Romans who practiced paganism would accept the change but still follow the same rituals.

As for Easter, it’s origins are both pagan and Jewish. The Jewish origin is Passover and the pagan origin was a Spring fertility festival (the rabbit being one symbol of fertility.)
 
Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon following March 21 (historically, the Spring equinox). The reason, however, has nothing to do with paganism. It has everything to do with Judaism and with Christ’s Resurrection.
Christ was resurrected on Sunday – the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1) – thus since the First Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325 all Christians have celebrated his Resurrection on Sunday. Prior to that, most celebrated it on Sunday, but some, known as Quartodecimians (“Fourteenth-ers”) celebrated it on the 14th day of the Jewish month of Nisan, when Passover occurred. At First Nicaea all Christians agreed to celebrate the Resurrection of Christ on first Sunday after 14 Nisan because that was the day Christ was Resurrected in the first century – the Sunday after Passover.

Because first century Jews used a lunar calendar, every month was twenty-eight days long, beginning with the new moon and having the full moon on the 14th of the month. Nisan, being the month in which the Spring equinox occurred, always had Passover – the 14th of Nisan – falling on the first full moon on or after the Spring equinox.

Thus since Passover was always on or after the first full moon after the Spring equinox, and since the Resurrection was the first Sunday after Passover, Easter is always the first Sunday after the first full moon after March 21 (historically, the Spring equinox). There is nothing about a pagan lunar celebration in here. It has nothing to do with paganism, but everything to do with the Resurrection of Christ in its Jewish-Passover context.

Now let us deal with the name of Easter. The fact is that there are only two languages in which the name has any pagan associations whatsoever – English and German. This, of course, is a problem for King James Only-ites, since the term “Easter” appears in the King James Version in Acts 12:4 as a translation for the Jewish holiday of Passover.

In English, of course, tha name is “Easter” and in German “Ostern.” These are related in name to a pagan spring festival, whose name, if you check a dictionary, was derived from the prehistoric West Germanic word akin to the Old English term east, which means, simply enough, “east,” the direction of the rising sun. It has nothing to do, contrary to what you will hear from some anti-Easter-ites, with the goddess Ishtar.

But in virtually every language except English and German, the name of Easter is derived from the Jewish word Pesach or “Passover.” Thus in Greek the term for Easter is Pascha, in Latin the term is also Pascha. From there it passed into the Romance languages, and so in Spanish it is Pascua, in Italian it is Pasqua, in French it is Paques, and in Portugese it is Pascoa. It also passed into the non-Romance languages, such as the Germanic languages Dutch, where it is Pasen and Danish, where it is Paaske.

Thus only in the highly Protestant countries of Germany (where the Reformation started) and England (where the intense persecution and martyrdom of Catholics was the harshest), does the term “Easter” have any pagan associations at all. So perhaps in these two Protestant countries paganism was not sufficiently stamped out to use the Judeo-Christian term for the celebration of Christ’s Resurrection that was used everywhere else in Europe.

-James Akin
 
Sarah Jane:
There is nothing about a pagan lunar celebration in here. It has nothing to do with paganism, but everything to do with the Resurrection of Christ in its Jewish-Passover context.
Sarah Jane:
Does your church do an Easter egg hunt?
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