Jesus peace be upon him and the Devil in the Bible

[Emad]

Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

The above are verses taken from Mathew 4;1-10

These verses clearly indicate that Jesus peace be upon him was an obedient mortal and God is the Master and Lord according to his saying in the seventh verse. “It is written again that shall not tempt the Lord, thy God” In this chapter is says that the devil actually carried the Messiah and took him from place to place. How can the Devil carry God? Glory be to Allah, He is above such blasphemy.

Then the devil orders him to prostrate to him and worship him, even tempting him with worldy possessions. How can the devil even dare such an audacity with God? When the devil wanted Jesus peace be upon him to comply with his orders, he (Jesus) replied by saying “Thou shalt worship the Lord, thy God, And thou only shalt thou serve.”

 

[LuigiColetta]

Emad, did you have a question? Why start the thread this way?

You talk about blasphemy in the catholic forum? Not nice to start a thread in this tone. Jesus is 100% Man. Do you understand this statement? Jesus is 100% Man! But wait a minute…Jesus is 100% God! Did this confuse you?
Is Jesus 200%? We can’t grasp the idea because we are human, but no He isn’t 200%, He is much greater, because He is God.

Now…Jesus is a name given to the second person of the 1 God that was born in time. But God is outside of time.
One could say that the name Jesus is new. Let’s just agree on this. So where was Jesus before His name was given to a man? We can call Jesus “The Word” because He is The Word. The Word was with God, The Word is God! He came and dwelt among us…as Jesus. So The Word incarnated Himself as Jesus.
Jesus is really 100% Man. He died and was burried and resurrected on Sunday (the first day of the week)!

Jesus is God. Jesus is “The Word”. Jesus is the second person of the Tri-UNE God. Jesus is “Man”, actually the only REAL Man that ever walked the face of the earth. Jesus is the son of David, heir of the Kingdom, and David called Him Lord before Jesus was born! How can David, who existed before Jesus was born, call the Messiah, his son, Lord? Because He, Jesus, existed before David. Jesus existed before Adam. Jesus existed in eternity with God the Father.

Peace,
Luigi

 

[Emad]

Emad, did you have a question? Why start the thread this way?

I have many more things to say similar to this, however I don’t say them. I started this thread because so many people start similar threads about Islam. They use a couple of verses from the Quran and come to their own conclusion about Islam according to their whims and desires.

Jesus is 100% Man. Do you understand this statement? Jesus is 100% Man! But wait a minute…Jesus is 100% God! Did this confuse you?

Yes indeed it did confuse me very much and just made my faith stronger that he was only a Prophet of God. This is my question: How can God be perfect and imperfect at the same time? How can God need and not need at the same time? If we say Jesus peace be upon him was God, then that means that sleep overtook God. Sleep is a creation, and if it overtook God that means that a creature took over the Creator which is impossible. Glory be to God, He is High Above such things that you attribute to Him.

PS: please don’t take this thread personal. I really hate starting such threads, but many others are starting threads about Islam that aren’t questions, but their own personal opinions and they try to make it seem like it is a fact. Luigi you personally I have respect for you. Sorry if this insulted you.

 

[Booklover]

Emad:

I have many more things to say similar to this, however I don’t say them. I started this thread because so many people start similar threads about Islam. They use a couple of verses from the Quran and come to their own conclusion about Islam according to their whims and desires.

Emad, now do you understand how frustrated we get when Muslims do the same thing with our Bible?

Jesus is 100% Man. Do you understand this statement? Jesus is 100% Man! But wait a minute…Jesus is 100% God! Did this confuse you?

Yes indeed it did confuse me very much and just made my faith stronger that he was only a Prophet of God. This is my question: How can God be perfect and imperfect at the same time? How can God need and not need at the same time? If we say Jesus peace be upon him was God, then that means that sleep overtook God. Sleep is a creation, and if it overtook God that means that a creature took over the Creator which is impossible. Glory be to God, He is High Above such things that you attribute to Him.

Do you have to keep reassuring yourself all the time that Jesus is just a prophet? What are you afraid of, that one day you may come to realize that He was much more than a prophet?

As a human being, Jesus was perfect because unlike us, he did not sin! The problem that you Muslims have is that you believe that God can only do the things which you can understand with human intellect! I also get the impression that Muslims think they know more about God than God knows about himself! How can you really know what is or not befitting to God? There is nothing that God cannot do.

 

[LuigiColetta]

Emad, I have read some of your posts and find respect for you as well. I actually respect Muslims very much. What I don’t like is the “your God isn’t good. My God is good” type of dialogue that sometimes I come across (started by both Christians and Muslims alike). There is only One God and He is Good! There aren’t 2 Gods that we are fighting to establish one being greater than the other, in the absolute, there is only ONE God!

What I am starting to understand is that the main problem, as it is also for other Christians of other faith traditions, is the definition of words we use in our daily lives. This is one thing, but the other thing is that we (humans) think we know God in His majesty.

No christian would say that Jesus was imperfect, in fact, if such would happen other Christian would get personal with them (the other Christian) So Jesus was perfect! He showed us the image and likeness we should strive to imitate. He showed us what a real Man should be. When He pointed the pharisees to look “In the beginning” He actually called us all to look at our roots, that is the first in creation ( 'Adam MAN, and Adam Male and Eve Female before they sinned) There was “Original Innocence”, “Original Happiness”, “Original Nakedness”, etc. There was no death, there was no divorce, there was no lust (Adam looked at Eve and saw God’s Love through looking at her body. She doesn’t even speak and Adam proclaims God’s love to Adam) After they sinned there was “Original Shame”, etc.

Let’s say you are a pure spirit! If you wear the clothes of flesh, you are still pure spirit, but now you are wearing the clothes of flesh. This doesn’t take away the fact that you were pure spirit before wearing the flesh, and still are pure spirit, but only with clothes on.

When God’s Word became flesh, He didn’t stop being God. But in the flesh(clothes) He slept, but God didn’t sleep (even though God in the flesh did sleep. The problem with the words (English, Aramaic, polish, etc.) we have to describe is that when we speak of Jesus, we are speaking of God in the second person with flesh (for before being born He had no flesh) But since He is both 100% God and 100% Man, when we say Jesus slept, we do mean God slept, But only insofar as the Son of Man, Jesus, slept.(We could say that God slept, because Jesus slept, but God the Father didn’t sleep. God the Spirit didn’t sleep. The confusion, for lack of words, happens when we speak of Jesus (for He was God before the name Jesus was given to Him, and was God during His life on earth, and is God with His Glorified body)

In honesty, it isn’t important that you understand Jesus as God, as you get to know Him you will learn that He is. God loves you more than anybody has ever showed you, more than parents, girlfriend, wife, grandmother, etc. This is amazing to me! How much greater is His love than the Love I experienced on this earth!!!

In our scripture there is a verse that says that God is Love or God = Love (please, don’t misunderstand this, God is more than just LOVE). There are other verses that speak of love. A friend of mine, Raquel, has showed me the truth about God by translating some verses found in Corinthians…I will do the same.

God is patient,
God is kind.
He is not jealous,
(God) is not pompous,
He is not inflated,
He is not rude,
He does not seek its own interests,
He is not quick-tempered,
He does not brood over injury,
He does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
He bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
God never fails!

Peace of Christ to you and to your loved one.

Your brother,
Luigi

 

[Emad]

BookLover blue
Emad black

Do you have to keep reassuring yourself all the time that Jesus is just a prophet? What are you afraid of, that one day you may come to realize that He was much more than a prophet?

No I will not come to realize that he was more than a Prophet, how could he be when the devil held him? Surely the devil can’t hold God could he?

The problem that you Muslims have is that you believe that God can only do the things which you can understand with human intellect! I also get the impression that Muslims think they know more about God than God knows about himself! How can you really know what is or not befitting to God? There is nothing that God cannot do.

We don’t claim to understand everything God does and we also believe God can do anything, the problem is that there are things that aren’t beffiting of Him to do. For example do you think it is beffitting of God to incarnate Himself into a rat or pig?

PS: Luigi thanks for your explanation. You are a truly kind man

 

[Booklover]

Emad:

BookLover blue
Emad black

Do you have to keep reassuring yourself all the time that Jesus is just a prophet? What are you afraid of, that one day you may come to realize that He was much more than a prophet?

No I will not come to realize that he was more than a Prophet, how could he be when the devil held him? Surely the devil can’t hold God could he?

Please don’t get upset, but I find your arguments a bit silly. Okay, so you say you can never accept Jesus as God and for the same reasons, since I believe that Jesus is God, I cannot accept Mohammed as a real prophet or the Qur’an as the word of God!

The problem that you Muslims have is that you believe that God can only do the things which you can understand with human intellect! I also get the impression that Muslims think they know more about God than God knows about himself! How can you really know what is or not befitting to God? There is nothing that God cannot do.

We don’t claim to understand everything God does and we also believe God can do anything, the problem is that there are things that aren’t beffiting of Him to do. For example do you think it is beffitting of God to incarnate Himself into a rat or pig?



That’s exactly the kind remark that stops dialogue cold! Nobody is saying anything about God becoming a rat or a pig! We’re talking about God becoming a human being which is a very different thing! I see now that it’s a waste of time trying to get you to see things in a different light!

 

[Faith101]

That’s exactly the kind remark that stops dialogue cold! Nobody is saying anything about God becoming a rat or a pig! We’re talking about God becoming a human being which is a very different thing! I see now that it’s a waste of time trying to get you to see things in a different light!

being a rat is not befitting to God. Being a human is not befitting to God. being anything less than the all-powerful, untemptable being is not befitting to God.

See how you got all upset when Emad said that it is not befitting for God to become a rat…being a human is really no different…we are sooooooooooooooooooooooo low compared to God.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Faith101:
being a rat is not befitting to God. Being a human is not befitting to God. being anything less than the all-powerful, untemptable being is not befitting to God.

See how you got all upset when Emad said that it is not befitting for God to become a rat…being a human is really no different…we are sooooooooooooooooooooooo low compared to God.

I’m curious Faith, do you think you are soooooooooooooooo mighty to tell God what He can do? Really, who are you to say what is befitting of God? Do you think you know better than He? If He wanted to be a rat do you feel that, because YOU think it unbefitting, He could not do so?

 

[hawk]

iamrefreshed:

I’m curious Faith, do you think you are soooooooooooooooo mighty to tell God what He can do? Really, who are you to say what is befitting of God? Do you think you know better than He? If He wanted to be a rat do you feel that, because YOU think it unbefitting, He could not do so?

This is really a problem with Islam,

The belief in Islam is that God is separate from creation.

How then is this God omni-present?

Muslims because of their strict definition of the nature of God, have severely limited the power of our lord.

 

[exoflare]

Booklover:

Please don’t get upset, but I find your arguments a bit silly. Okay, so you say you can never accept Jesus as God and for the same reasons, since I believe that Jesus is God, I cannot accept Mohammed as a real prophet or the Qur’an as the word of God!

That’s exactly the kind remark that stops dialogue cold! Nobody is saying anything about God becoming a rat or a pig! We’re talking about God becoming a human being which is a very different thing! I see now that it’s a waste of time trying to get you to see things in a different light!

That’s the beauty of reading between the lines in any dialogue like this. After some time, you can tell whether the person has a genuine interest in learning or they just have an agenda. Did you notice how I rarely ever reply on this section of the forums anymore? A lot of the Muslims here (not all) have already revealed themselves to fall into the latter group, so it’s best to ignore them.

 

[Faith101]

I’m curious Faith, do you think you are soooooooooooooooo mighty to tell God what He can do? Really, who are you to say what is befitting of God? Do you think you know better than He? If He wanted to be a rat do you feel that, because YOU think it unbefitting, He could not do so?

SubhanAllah…i am a nobody. I am only a slave of the All-Merciful. Without Him, i am nothing.

I do not know better than He. GOD tells me what befits Him and what does not. That’s all.

If you feel it befits God to be a rat, than please educate booklover b/c she seems to think it is not befitting. For you, its about what you think befits or not…but for me, i go only by what God tells me.

Glory be to Allah who is above needing to eat.

 

[Ghosty]

See how you got all upset when Emad said that it is not befitting for God to become a rat…being a human is really no different…we are sooooooooooooooooooooooo low compared to God.

The first chapter of Genesis says:

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Human beings are FAR different from rats and pigs, we are the image and likeness of God. To say otherwise is to blaspheme against God.

 

[Faith101]

hawk:

This is really a problem with Islam,

The belief in Islam is that God is separate from creation.

How then is this God omni-present?

Muslims because of their strict definition of the nature of God, have severely limited the power of our lord.

we strictly believe that God is ONE.

Is it the Muslims who have said that God is in need of food? or in need to go to the bathroom? or gets scared? or doesnt have certain knowledge? were all these limitations set by muslims?

 

[Faith101]

Ghosty:

The first chapter of Genesis says:

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Human beings are FAR different from rats and pigs, we are the image and likeness of God. To say otherwise is to blaspheme against God.

Glory be to God…you think that YOU are like HIM? you are nothing…i am nothing. do you understand the meaning of nothing? and you say its blaspheme that we are NOT like God…how far you have gone…may Allah guide you

 

[Ghosty]

Is it the Muslims who have said that God is in need of food? or in need to go to the bathroom? or gets scared? or doesnt have certain knowledge? were all these limitations set by muslims?

Christians don’t claim this about God, either. At least certainly not in the way you are claiming. This has been clarified many, many times, however.

God was not limited by His human form, but His human form WAS human. That God embraced the human condition is not a limiting of His power, but rather shows the greatness of it. God is so powerful and great that He can become a man and not lose an ounce of His divine nature.

Humans are made in the image and likeness of God, but we do not have the power of God. God could take on human nature without limiting Himself because human nature is the image and likeness of God, unlike pig nature or rat nature. Human nature is completely compatible with God’s nature, by the very design of God as seen in Genesis.

 

[Ghosty]

Glory be to God…you think that YOU are like HIM? you are nothing…i am nothing. do you understand the meaning of nothing? and you say its blaspheme that we are NOT like God…how far you have gone…may Allah guide you

God said this, not me. I didn’t write Genesis, I did not create Adam. Do not put the words of God in Genesis into my mouth.

 

[Emad]

God is so powerful and great that He can become a man and not lose an ounce of His divine nature.

Can the same be said if God became a rat or a pig?

Christians don’t claim this about God, either. At least certainly not in the way you are claiming. This has been clarified many, many times, however.

Humans are in need of food. If God became a human as you claim he would need food and need to relieve himself.

Glory be to Him, He is High Above what they ascribe to Him.

 

[Faith101]

Ghosty:

Christians don’t claim this about God, either. At least certainly not in the way you are claiming. This has been clarified many, many times, however.

God was not limited by His human form, but His human form WAS human. That God embraced the human condition is not a limiting of His power, but rather shows the greatness of it. God is so powerful and great that He can become a man and not lose an ounce of His divine nature.

Humans are made in the image and likeness of God, but we do not have the power of God. God could take on human nature without limiting Himself because human nature is the image and likeness of God, unlike pig nature or rat nature. Human nature is completely compatible with God’s nature, by the very design of God as seen in Genesis.

Jesus is God. Jesus was on earth. Jesus got hungry

God got hungry. Harsh when its put that way isnt it?

you are saying that it befitts God to be human, but not to be a rat. Based on your standards, these wwould be considered limitations.

 

[Faith101]

Ghosty:

God said this, not me. I didn’t write Genesis, I did not create Adam. Do not put the words of God in Genesis into my mouth.

perhaps its the misinterpretation of the verse. Perhaps"in his likeness" means that we also have a sense of justice, and truth and love and mercy…similiar to God’s but far less in quality and quanitity.

in all honesty, that what i had thought when i knew that Christians believed that God created us in his likeness. I would have never believed, except ofcourse until you told me right now, that you actually believe that we can resemble Him.

Glory be to God who is above all that you claim about Him.