Jesus peace be upon him and the Devil in the Bible

[Ghosty]

Can the same be said if God became a rat or a pig?

If it was God’s will to make them in His image, yes, but it appears that such is not His will. Only humans are described as being in His “image and likeness”. That is by God’s will, not mine. What God wills, He wills, what God does not will is not. God specifically didn’t make rats and pigs to be compatible with His nature, though of course He could have since He made all things. The fact is that only humans were made this way, as He says so Himself in Genesis.

Humans are in need of food. If God became a human as you claim he would need food and need to relieve himself.

In His human nature, yes, but that is not the same as applying human attributes to His Divine Nature. This is an important distinction, because Muslims try to blur the line and imply that we say that God, in His divine nature, must eat and sleep, but this is not the case, nor has the Church ever claimed this.

So, you would be right to say that implying that Divine Nature requires eating and sleeping would be blasphemy and diminishing to God. You are wrong to say, however, that taking on a human nature IN ADDITION to a Divine Nature diminishes that Divine Nature. By taking on the human nature, God’s Divine Nature didn’t change at all, and we know that God designed the human nature to be compatible with His Divine Nature because He made us specifically in His image and likeness.

The term for this is Hypostatic Union. If you would honestly like a more detailed explaination of this, I would be happy to explain it. Just say so

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

we strictly believe that God is ONE.

Is it the Muslims who have said that God is in need of food? or in need to go to the bathroom? or gets scared? or doesnt have certain knowledge? were all these limitations set by muslims?

Those limitations were chosen by God.

Far be it from us to decide it is not appropriate for Him to decide His own nature.

You on the other hand are the one limiting God, by saying that He cannot be this, or that.

Not us.

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

Jesus is God. Jesus was on earth. Jesus got hungry

God got hungry. Harsh when its put that way isnt it?

you are saying that it befitts God to be human, but not to be a rat. Based on your standards, these wwould be considered limitations.

Hardly harsh, should God choose to incarnate, are you going to be the one to tell Him he cant, because it doesnt sit with your definition of His nature?

Why do insist on limiting the capabiolities of God.

 

[Ghosty]

Faith101:

perhaps its the misinterpretation of the verse. Perhaps"in his likeness" means that we also have a sense of justice, and truth and love and mercy…similiar to God’s but far less in quality and quanitity.

in all honesty, that what i had thought when i knew that Christians believed that God created us in his likeness. I would have never believed, except ofcourse until you told me right now, that you actually believe that we can resemble Him.

Glory be to God who is above all that you claim about Him.

It is that, but my point is that rats and pigs do not have those things which are His likeness and image. This is by God’s design. Rats and pigs have no justice, mercy, truth, or love. So, to put a human on the level of a pig or a rat is actually blaspheming these qualities of God, it is blaspheming against God’s likeness and image. The fact is that, unlike all other creatures of the world, God made human nature compatible with Divine characteristics such as love, mercy, and truth. We are unique by design, and we see that our natures are built to accomodate Divine things that other creatures do not and can not.

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

perhaps its the misinterpretation of the verse. Perhaps"in his likeness" means that we also have a sense of justice, and truth and love and mercy…similiar to God’s but far less in quality and quanitity.

in all honesty, that what i had thought when i knew that Christians believed that God created us in his likeness. I would have never believed, except ofcourse until you told me right now, that you actually believe that we can resemble Him.

Glory be to God who is above all that you claim about Him.

You are right Faith101, and you certainly have not misunderstood our belief of “in His likeness”.

We dont believe that God created our bodies to be like His body or some such thing.

Just as you dont believe that God “sits” on a throne, even though its says so in the Quran.

 

[Faith101]

hawk:

Those limitations were chosen by God.

Far be it from us to decide it is not appropriate for Him to decide His own nature.

You on the other hand are the one limiting God, by saying that He cannot be this, or that.

Not us.

God tells us in the Quran that he is above all that you ascribe to him (being human, eating, sleeping, being tempted by the devil). if you choose to worship a god with these characteristics…then thats you

to you, your deen…and to me, mine. wa alhamdulilah for Islam

 

[Ghosty]

Those limitations were chosen by God.

More importantly, they are not limits on God’s Divine Nature, which He fully maintains in the Incarnation. God accepts the limits of human nature, and works within them, without diminishing His actual abilities.

If I walk into a low-ceilinged, fragile, paper house, I will duck my head when I walk around, but I will not be any shorter. I can stand up straight and break the ceiling, or I can choose to only use the amount of my height that is compatible with my surroundings. This is not a limit put on me, it is a voluntary motion on my part. I am in no way limited in my ability to act. My attributes are exactly the same as before, but I am working within an area that is not accommodating to my full attributes. You couldn’t say I was shorter, because I have the same physical attributes, and you couldn’t say I was limited by the house because I could stand at any time.

Just because God chooses not to make a thunder storm today does not mean that He can’t.

 

[Faith101]

hawk:

You are right Faith101, and you certainly have not misunderstood our belief of “in His likeness”.

We dont believe that God created our bodies to be like His body or some such thing.

Just as you dont believe that God “sits” on a throne, even though its says so in the Quran.

you say you dont believe that his body is like yours…but for a set time on this earth, it was (according to your belief)

the word is “astawaa” which i have never seen translated as “sits”
that same word is used in this verse, with pertinent part bolded

Who created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods, and He is firmly established on the throne of authority; the Beneficent Allah, so ask respecting it one aware. (Quran 25:59)

 

[Faith101]

Ghosty:

More importantly, they are not limits on God’s Divine Nature, which He fully maintains in the Incarnation. God accepts the limits of human nature, and works within them, without diminishing His actual abilities.

If I walk into a low-ceilinged, fragile, paper house, I will duck my head when I walk around, but I will not be any shorter. I can stand up straight and break the ceiling, or I can choose to only use the amount of my height that is compatible with my surroundings. This is not a limit put on me, it is a voluntary motion on my part. I am in no way limited in my ability to act. My attributes are exactly the same as before, but I am working within an area that is not accommodating to my full attributes. You couldn’t say I was shorter, because I have the same physical attributes, and you couldn’t say I was limited by the house because I could stand at any time.

Just because God chooses not to make a thunder storm today does not mean that He can’t.

that was a beautiful explanation…however it doesnt make any sense. If you are not in need of food…than how come one day you got hungry? It is NOT an issue of can God do it or no…it is an issue of what is befitting to His majesty. In the Quran, Allah tells us what befits Him and what does not. Period.

Your explanation is not convincing. However, i have learned that not everyone sees it the same way…and so to you, your ideas and to me, mine

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

you say you dont believe that his body is like yours…but for a set time on this earth, it was (according to your belief)

Actually, we don’t. While Jesus was divine in nature, it doesn’t mean the essence of God as a whole was limited to just the natural capabilities of that human body. In contrast, we humans on earth have a soul that is confined for now to the actions of our physical bodies.

 

[Faith101]

exoflare:

Actually, we don’t. While Jesus was divine in nature, it doesn’t mean the essence of God as a whole was limited to just the natural capabilities of that human body. In contrast, we humans on earth have a soul that is confined for now to the actions of our physical bodies.

but you do believe that Jesus Christ peace be upon him, while he was on earth, in human form…indicated to people that he was worthy of worship. So those people that were around him, would have been worshipping a god that needed to eat and sleep.

 

[exoflare]

Faith101:

but you do believe that Jesus Christ peace be upon him, while he was on earth, in human form…indicated to people that he was worthy of worship. So those people that were around him, would have been worshipping a god that needed to eat and sleep.

Yes and no.

That’s not me trying to circumvent the issue. What I’m saying is you’ve been correct this whole time when you state that God is completely self-sufficient and all-powerful. If there’s one point I’ve tried to get across this whole time, it’s that God’s existence and all-powerful nature did not at any point depend on whether Jesus ate or slept. Jesus’ physical body did not comprise the entire scope of God’s power. Jesus did need to eat and sleep to sustain his physical body, because that comes with the whole package of entering the sphere of humanity.

What the issue always seems to boil down to in these discussions is the question of if, and indeed why, God’s entering the sphere of humanity would have somehow compromised his divinity in the first place.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Faith101:

SubhanAllah…i am a nobody. I am only a slave of the All-Merciful. Without Him, i am nothing.

I do not know better than He. GOD tells me what befits Him and what does not. That’s all.

If you feel it befits God to be a rat, than please educate booklover b/c she seems to think it is not befitting. For you, its about what you think befits or not…but for me, i go only by what God tells me.

Glory be to Allah who is above needing to eat.

Faith, you are being disingenuous. Your posts conflict with eachother constantly. In fact, in this post you state God can do anything when earlier you state He cannot become man. You state in this post that “its about what you think befits or not” when in the previous post I said EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

Christ Jesus was arrested for Blasphemy. That means He claimed He was the Messiah, the Son of God, He is God Incarnate. This is what the Jews of the Old Testament waited for and when He came, in accordance with Scripture, they didn’t know Him.

A prophet cannot be arrested and crucified for Blasphemy unless they did indeed claim that. Jesus acknowledged His Divinity at His trial and the High Priest tore His robe and they then sought to have Him crucified.

There are verified historical Roman documents of Christ Jesus’ Crucifixion and death and burial. You may view some of them here
newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm

%between%

Can you now explain to me who Jesus is then?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[hawk]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

Christ Jesus was arrested for Blasphemy. That means He claimed He was the Messiah, the Son of God, He is God Incarnate. This is what the Jews of the Old Testament waited for and when He came, in accordance with Scripture, they didn’t know Him.

A prophet cannot be arrested and crucified for Blasphemy unless they did indeed claim that. Jesus acknowledged His Divinity at His trial and the High Priest tore His robe and they then sought to have Him crucified.

There are verified historical Roman documents of Christ Jesus’ Crucifixion and death and burial.

Can you now explain to me who Jesus is then?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

True, Blaspheming God in any way was punishable by death.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friend

Christ Jesus did not commit Blasphemy, He is God. They didn’t believe He was God and so charged Him with Blasphemy and sought and had Him cruified.

By the way the Bible of the Catholic Faith is also a verified Historical Document as well as the Living Word of God.

A prophet cannot be liar and prophet and God cannot be liar and God…so who do you say Christ Jesus is?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[ronald]

Why i am a Christian, because there is no bigger love of God that He wants to become a 100% human and suffer than in the Bible. God Bless us all.

 

[Ghosty]

springbreeze: I don’t know if you’re intending to question Hawk directly, but Hawk is Catholic

 

[springbreeze]

Ghosty:

springbreeze: I don’t know if you’re intending to question Hawk directly, but Hawk is Catholic

Dear Ghosty

No I’m posing the question to those good folks here who are Muslim. I clarified in the post after Hawk’s what happened to Jesus concerning Blasphemy, that’s all. I have read a few of Hawk’s posts and read that he is a convert from Islam to Catholicism.

Thank you for pointing this out though, because as I read back it could look as though I was directing this question to Hawk. I’m sorry for any confusion, it was entirely my fault.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa