Jesus People

[Mikaele]

I was speaking to some ‘Jesus People.’ They practise a Saturday Sabbath. I tried to point out to them that the early Christians gathered on the first day to break bread, but they said that it wasn’t to practise their Sabbath. Also, they used this argument, ‘If it was so important to the Lord that he rest on the Saturday, then what right does the Church have to change it?’

When I tried to point out that the Church gave us the Bible, they were adamant that it was actually the Orthodox, and that the Papal infallibility is a myth. They are a strange group. I said, then why aren’t you Orthodox Christians? and they seem to believe in some kind of apostasy, but still believe the priesthood is valid, so they receive the Eucharist a couple times a year. They use the protestant Bible, and live similar to what we find in the Acts of the Apostles (not many personal possessions, putting all their money into one purse, living communally.) I didn’t have any good arguments against this. They said, ‘Why don’t you live in one community? It was so important to live in community that God struck down that man in the Acts etc.’

Help would be good, cheers.

 

[NotWorthy]

I was speaking to some ‘Jesus People.’ They practise a Saturday Sabbath. I tried to point out to them that the early Christians gathered on the first day to break bread, but they said that it wasn’t to practise their Sabbath. Also, they used this argument, ‘If it was so important to the Lord that he rest on the Saturday, then what right does the Church have to change it?’

When I tried to point out that the Church gave us the Bible, they were adamant that it was actually the Orthodox, and that the Papal infallibility is a myth. They are a strange group. I said, then why aren’t you Orthodox Christians? and they seem to believe in some kind of apostasy, but still believe the priesthood is valid, so they receive the Eucharist a couple times a year. They use the protestant Bible, and live similar to what we find in the Acts of the Apostles (not many personal possessions, putting all their money into one purse, living communally.) I didn’t have any good arguments against this. They said, ‘Why don’t you live in one community? It was so important to live in community that God struck down that man in the Acts etc.’

Help would be good, cheers.

The Jerusalem community is the only one recorded in Acts to live communally.

Probably not coincidentally, the Jerusalem community was also the only community that knew that the city was living on borrowed time. It seems to make sense that they would live this way when they knew that all would soon be lost.

 

[bkayw]

Here in the States, we have the 7th Day Adventists. They worship on Saturday, but do not live communally.

In the 60’s & 70’s we had “Jesus Freaks” that lived communally. Not really sure what their religious beliefs were, but most involved a very liberal use of illegal drugs and avoidance of the Vietnam War.

 

[Sherry_G]

Mikaeli:
Door to door evangelizing is their stock in trade and they’ve been pretty much brainwashed in how to short circuit any valid points you may have. Good for you in asking why they weren’t Orthodox considering their retort about the Bible!

In my experience with some door knockers in my neighborhood, the things that worked best were keeping the conversation on my terms, not theirs. When they found out I was Catholic, they accused me of not reading the Bible! One of them even had the nerve to say, “I used to be Catholic before I found out the truth”. I said I was so sorry to hear that she had left the One True Church of Jesus Christ and would pray for her soul’s salvation. I further let her know that if she ever really understood the faith she would never have left and asked her to return the next AM and go to Mass with me and meet Father Oliver to discuss this further.

They never returned. Of course, they can’t unhear what they heard, either. Best to ask the questions you wish to ask, don’t spend time spinning your wheels refuting their arguments! And remember, practice makes perfect. If you knocked on doors like they do, you would develop some pretty snappy retorts too. (Not that we WANT to do it that way! LOL)

 

[FCEGM]

I was speaking to some ‘Jesus People.’ They practise a Saturday Sabbath. I tried to point out to them that the early Christians gathered on the first day to break bread, but they said that it wasn’t to practise their Sabbath. Also, they used this argument, ‘If it was so important to the Lord that he rest on the Saturday, then what right does the Church have to change it?’

Help would be good, cheers.

An interesting passage in this regard is John 5:16-18:

Therefore, the Jews began to persecute Jesus because he did this on a sabbath.
But Jesus answered them, “My Father is at work until now, so I am at work.”
For this reason the Jews tried all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but he also called God his own father, making himself equal to God.

The Sabbath was given to man to help him to remember his Creator and His creative work in their lives - which the Lord points out is ongoing; Jesus, the Son of God, is also working, especially so following His Resurrection (on the first day of the week) an the sending of the Holy Spirit to form a Kingdom of adopted sons in the Son.

 

[TX_Knight]

What many people do not realize is that today’s calendar is much different than the calendar from centuries ago. I read an article a couple of years ago written by a priest who has a degree in history. He specifically addressed how the changes in the calendar impacted the Church calendar, giving a VERY good explanation of why some things on the calendar sometimes just don’t jive.

Some calendars show the week as Sunday through Saturday while some show it as Monday through Sunday. On the calendar that most of us use, wouldn’t Saturday be the seventh day? And God rested on the seventh day.

Those changes the priest wrote about impacted the interpretation of when the Sabbath is. “Keep holy the Sabbath day” does not say “Keep holy the Sunday” or “Keep holy the Saturday”. So, regardless of whether the day is a Saturday or Sunday, I think it is more important that a day is kept holy for God.

 

[Todd977]

It was so important to live in community that God struck down that man in the Acts etc.’

What was important was honesty not necessarily living in community. In Acts 5:1-11, Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, were struck down for lying and scheming. Though it appears all Christians at the time was living in community, verse 4 implies that living in community was entirely voluntary, that Christians were at liberty to own private property if they wanted and to keep as much of their own money as they wanted.

The Jewish Sabbath was principally instituted as a memorial of God’s liberation of the Jewish people from their slavery in Egypt on that day of the week. (Deuteronomy 5:12-15) As important as that event was, Christians have a far more important event to celebrate, namely Jesus’ Sunday Resurrection from the dead, when He liberated all mankind from their slavery to sin and death. Accordingly, the Church directs us to keep holy the Lord’s Day.

There is nothing in the New Testament that even suggests Christians must keep the Jewish Sabbath. When asked which Commandments had to be kept, Jesus did not mention keeping the Jewish Sabbath. (Matthew 19:18-19; also see Mark 10:19 and Luke 18:20)

As well as circumcision (1 Corinthians 7:17-19;Galatians 5:2-6) and animal sacrifices for sin (Hebrews 10:1-18), St. Paul ranks keeping the Jewish Sabbath with the other shadowy things of the Old Covenant, such as Jewish kosher laws regarding food and drink, and Jewish festivals and new moon celebrations, that passed away when the New Covenant of Jesus was established:
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17).
Elsewhere, along with expressing an indifference toward what people ate, such as keeping or not keeping Jewish kosher food laws or eating or not eating meat, St. Paul expresses complete indifference towards the observance of days, such as keeping or not keeping the Jewish Sabbath, as long as a person’s motivation was to honor the Lord:
One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. … Then let us no more pass judgment on one another… (Romans 14:5-6,13)

 

[dronald]

Romans 14; just sayin

One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. … Then let us no more pass judgment on one another… (Romans 14:5-6,13)

Aww, you beat me to it.