Jesus preached to the dead. 1 Peter 4:6

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6 For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit." 1 Peter Chapter 4:6

When Jesus preached to the dead, this place is called the Abraham’s Bosom, or the Sheol. The abode of the dead. If this place is not hell the place of damned souls, and not purgatory, then what is it? It couldn’t be Limbo.

I am never cleared on this. I known in the Nicene Creed, that Jesus descended into the dead. In some translation he descended into hell.

As far as I’m concern there are only three places, Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell. Where exactly did Jesus go?
 
Did purgatory exist Before jesus died on the cross and did any people from old testamt times achieve sainthood so as not to have to experience any purgatory?

I never get answers to these questions.

Also did Enoch and Elijah go to Abraham’s Bosom, Purgatory, Sheol, or to the place where the Jesus “preached to the spiritsin prison” as Peter said?

If jesus liberated the people or spirits from prison when did purgatory first open up–before He died on the cross or after?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
Did purgatory exist Before jesus died on the cross and did any people from old testamt times achieve sainthood so as not to have to exp[erience any purgatory?

I never get answers to these questions.

Also did Enoch and Elijah go to Abraham’s Bosom, Purgatory, Sheol, or to the place where the Jesus “preached to the spiritsin prison” as Peter said?

If jesus liberated the people or spirits from prison when did purgatory first open up–before He died on the cross or after?
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I don’t know. I know purgatory was always there, Jews prayed for the dead prior to Jesus’ first coming. They even have prayers for the dead to this day. The term was not used but the dead had to have gone somewhere.

I think this is a mystery we can never comprehend. I do know Jesus did preached to the dead for 3 days. Whether it was purgatory or not, I don’t know. I don’t think it is. I do believe it is the abode of the dead, sheol. Not the hell as in the place of the damned.

John Martignoni said in his Newsletter:
“Hades: Sometimes all the dead seem to be in Hades (Acts 2:27), but elsewhere believers are in paradise (Luke 16:9, 23ff), or with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8), or under the altar (Rev 7:9). Hence Hades is sometimes just the abode of the wicked (Lk 16:23; Rev 20:13-14),” (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, ed. Geoffrey Bromley). Hades is sometimes just the abode of the wicked…isn’t that hell?! I’ve also read in places that Sheol (Hades) was essentially Hell, but that it basically had two levels…the just in the upper level (Abraham’s bosom), the wicked in the lower level.
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It just raises more questions. Perhaps there are levels of hell or whatnot. I am not really sure.
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Today there are three levels–Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell.

Why not three levels before Jesus died on the Cross–Abraham’s Bosom(for the sintly), purgatory(which could have been where the spirits in prison were–good but not saintly Jews and followers of the natural law of peoples elsewhere in the world who had never heard the gospel) and Hell?
 
When Jesus gave His parable about the poor man who died with the dogs licking his wounds and the rich man having excruciating thirst and wanting to warn his relatives that were still alive–did Jesus indicate that that man was in hell or in purgatory–He said that the poor man was in Abrahm’s bosom and that a chasm was between the two.

I wonder if that was referring to the chasm between purgatory and Heaven or the chasm between purgatory and Hell

Or

if the parable can’t be taken literally when it comes to such specific details?
 
I’ll leave it a mystery about where Jesus went after he died and preached to the dead. I can’t understand it, I know that he did descend into the dead just as the Creed states. “He descended into the dead.”

To ponder on this is just too much for my finite mind. I know he didn’t go to hell (the place of the damned and fallen angels).

I know before Jesus came. Heaven was closed to everyone even to those heroes of the OT. It was not until Jesus death and resurrection, he open up heaven for us all, provided that we remain obedient to all of his commandments.
 
To my knowledge, there is no scripture that supports purgatory. What is the Catholic view on purgatory?
This is my understanding- purgatory is the place where souls that have sin yet to be purged out before they enter into the presense of God, this is purgatory. But if in the gospel according to John 5:24 those who believe in Christ have passed from death into life, this excludes purgatory. And also, those that the Father has given Jesus shall not be lost. The thief on the cross was saved that day, to whom Jesus promised that the thief would be with Him in paradise.
 
There are three places NOW, but prior to the Resurrection, there existed Abraham’s Bosum (otherwise known as the Limbo of the Fathers)

This was the place that the Sanctified Souls resided in anticipation of the Resurrection and their entry into Heaven.

Abraham’s Bosum was emptied at the Resurrection and no longer exists.
 
Purgatory: **13 the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work.
14 If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage.
15 But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. ** 1 Corinthians 3:13-15.

Limbo: **2 I know someone in Christ who, fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows), was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know that this person (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows)
4 was caught up into Paradise and heard ineffable things, which no one may utter. ** 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, where the “third Heaven” = the totality of God’s presence, witnessable by the persons of God, only; the “second Heaven” = the Beatific Vision of the saved – our Paradise – above our current state but below the totality of God’s presence (which we are not allowed to see because that would be a partial violation of God’s sovereignty); the “first Heaven” = Limbo, which I believe to be about as comfortable and as uncomfortable as Earth (to effect perfect fairness).
 
I believe that the “descending into Hell” in the Apostles Creed, often characterized as a “preaching to the dead,” comprises a kind of *formal * procession of the saved into Heaven, as opposed to the informal event most experience.

We can see these formal and informal events at various places in Scripture…

BAPTISM

Formal institution: 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
14 John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?”
15 Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him.
16 After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him.
17 And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:13-17.

Informal institution: When Jesus is explaining to the Apostles why he must allow their feet to be washed by Jesus, and so refers to being “bathed” (baptized) and “washed” (through the Sacrament of Reconciliation): ** 10 Jesus said to him, “Whoever has bathed has no need except to have his feet washed, for he is clean all over; so you are clean, but not all.”** John 13:10.

THE EUCHARIST

Formal Institution: 19 Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.”
20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you. Luke 22:19-20.

Informal Institution: Note the use of the “blessed and broke” language: 12 As the day was drawing to a close, the Twelve approached him and said, “Dismiss the crowd so that they can go to the surrounding villages and farms and find lodging and provisions; for we are in a deserted place here.”
13 He said to them, “Give them some food yourselves.” They replied, “Five loaves and two fish are all we have, unless we ourselves go and buy food for all these people.”
14 Now the men there numbered about five thousand. Then he said to his disciples, “Have them sit down in groups of (about) fifty.”
15 They did so and made them all sit down.
16 Then taking the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, he said the blessing over them, broke them, and gave them to the disciples to set before the crowd.
17 They all ate and were satisfied. And when the leftover fragments were picked up, they filled twelve wicker baskets. Luke 9:12-17.

There are more instances of formal/informal action by Christ.
 
So did the people in Abraham’s bosom undergo any purgation after death are were all of them saints the day they died and needed no purgation?

Were any regular non saintly Jews there?
 
TO JERRY-JET: They may or may not have had to spend some time in purgatory before going to Abraham’s bossom, depending on their own personal judgment. The important thing is that they couldn’t go to heaven before Christ but after Jesus rose he took all those souls who were ready with him to heaven. The passage in 1 Peter 3:19-20 seems to have a formerly disobedient audience in mind (hence purgatory).

For the guy who found no evidence of purgatory in the Bible - also try contemplating the word “prison” in 1 Peter 3:19-20 and Mt 5:25 cf. Mt. 18:35. This prison is a place where you don’t get out of “till you pay the last penny”. It cant be hell - you don’t get out of there period. It can’t be heaven where you don’t get punished. It must be a prison where your sins and last attachments to sins are purged…hence PURGATORY.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
I am never cleared on this.
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Hi
There is some definitely, in my opinion, misunderstanding by the scribe if it is taken to be literally. There is no use to preaching to the dead, good or bad, they have completed their action in this world and the preaching to them would be of no use. Here, it could mean the spiritual dead.
JesusYeshuaIssa was only a human being, as a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH he could as he prayed, with the grace of GodAllahYHWH only cure the near-dead who were declared incurable by the Physicians as a sign of his being close to GodAllahYHWH. Often he used medicine and praying both for the treatment of such people, he was a good physician himself.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
ROBAUTEN said:
TO JERRY-JET: They may or may not have had to spend some time in purgatory before going to Abraham’s bossom, depending on their own personal judgment. The important thing is that they couldn’t go to heaven before Christ but after Jesus rose he took all those souls who were ready with him to heaven. The passage in 1 Peter 3:19-20 seems to have a formerly disobedient audience in mind (hence purgatory).

For the guy who found no evidence of purgatory in the Bible - also try contemplating the word “prison” in 1 Peter 3:19-20 and Mt 5:25 cf. Mt. 18:35. This prison is a place where you don’t get out of “till you pay the last penny”. It cant be hell - you don’t get out of there period. It can’t be heaven where you don’t get punished. It must be a prison where your sins and last attachments to sins are purged…hence PURGATORY.
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paarsurrey said:
Hi
There is some definitely, in my opinion, misunderstanding by the scribe if it is taken to be literally. There is no use to preaching to the dead, good or bad, they have completed their action in this world and the preaching to them would be of no use. Here, it could mean the spiritual dead.
JesusYeshuaIssa was only a human being, as a ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH he could as he prayed, with the grace of GodAllahYHWH only cure the near-dead who were declared incurable by the Physicians as a sign of his being close to GodAllahYHWH. Often he used medicine and praying both for the treatment of such people, he was a good physician himself.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
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Jesus is Lord.
The New Testament is clear: He raised the dead, the very dead.
The New Testament is clear: He rose from the dead.
The New Testament is clear: Jesus and the Father are One.

The important thing to note is that there is no path to heaven that does not lead through the Son. He is our mediator with the Father. Accept that Jesus is Lord. Please read the Gospel of St. John.

Peace
 
To ROBAUTEN: in Matthew 18:35 is the parable about forgiveness and how that affects the unforgiving in their relationship with God. Putting into the text this is absolute purgatory is reading into the text what is not there in this case. If you took the parable in context, you would not get out, period. Jesus is talking about what the kingdom of heaven is like. The debt was so huge that all the servant had; wife, children, possessions, needed to be sold to pay back the debt. Pretty huge debt. At the sacrifice of the family would the servant would gain his freedom. He begged for time to pay this back. The servant’s debt equalled a few million dollars. And the correction institution at that time did not have a high paying wage for prisoners. So the debt was forgiven by the master. My point: we would not be able to get out of purgatory because we are unable to pay the debt, nor will there be a purge at the time of death for an amount of time. Only by the sacrifice of Christ, His grace and mercy do we have entrance into heaven.
 
Hi
It is not a lesser miracle to cure incurable persons from near-dead to life again which JesusYeshuaIssa ,with prayer and with some medicine , showed often in proof of his being close to GodAllahYHWH and Jesus’ being a true ProphetMessenger of God. Some people unnecessarily look for magic or some drama in these things which is not at all the requirement. I give here a useful research article from wikipedia for benefit of the members here, those interested in the subject should look into it if they are research oriented and not the blind believers; no compulsion however:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
in particular
•He did not raise Lazarus from the dead.

Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
 
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