Jesus Questions

[PJM]

Dear friend in Christ;

The Incarnate Son of God personally participated in two Sacraments.

What are they?

Why did Jesus Do this?

What if anything ought this teach us?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[PJM]

1John.5 Verses 5 to 15

[5] Who is it that overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
[6] This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. [7] And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
[8] There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.
[9] If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son.

What ought to be our understanding of these passages?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Catholic4Christ]

“The Incarnate Son of God personally participated in two Sacraments. What are they?”

The two sacraments you’re thinking of are probably Communion and Baptism. This, at least, is what I’ve learned from Methodist family members and others with Protestant background. I’m not entirely sure I agree that Jesus was only personally involved in those two, however:

Baptism: by John the Baptist. Obviously, Jesus didn’t need the remission of Original Sin, but He participated as a sign.

Reconciliation: Jesus didn’t need His sins forgiven, since he was sinless, but I think we can all agree that He forgave other peoples’ sins in the Gospels.

Communion: Last Supper, of course.

Confirmation: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the instance of Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit on his friends is associated with Confirmation, though the sacrament as we know and practice it today developed later. Jesus didn’t need the Holy Spirit’s gifts himself, I would imagine, since the two are both part of the Trinity in the first place.

Matrimony: Arguably His presence at the wedding in Cana could be thought of as ‘participating.’ I’ll just throw in that, in western Catholic belief, the priest doesn’t bestow the Sacrament on the spouses, he merely presides over it. I’m pretty sure the spouses bestow it on each other. So I guess His presence could be thought of as similar to a priest’s presence. Again, anyone can feel free to correct me if I’m not quite right.

Holy Orders: Besides being the High Priest himself, he ordained his followers to go out and do His job in the world.

Anointing the Sick: Jesus healed sick people all the time, both spiritually and physically. Once again, He Himself didn’t really need to be cured of a disease.

Sorry for not quoting chapter and verse on this, I was mostly making general statements. I can look up the Biblical references later if you’d like. Hope this helps!

 

[Godfollower]

Dear friend in Christ;

The Incarnate Son of God personally participated in two Sacraments.

What are they?

Why did Jesus Do this?

What if anything ought this teach us?

God Bless,
Pat

(1) He was baptized in the Jordan with John. (2) He was confirmed when God acknowledged Him before the crowds. (3) He confected the Eucharist at the Last Supper. (4) He ordained priests and bishops on several occasions. He performed the Sacraments of (5) Reconciliation and (6) the Annointing of the Sick.

And He witnessed at least one (7) wedding, though we don’t know whether He officiated.

 

[PJM]

=Catholic4Christ;8787691]“The Incarnate Son of God personally participated in two Sacraments. What are they?”

The two sacraments you’re thinking of are probably Communion and Baptism. This, at least, is what I’ve learned from Methodist family members and others with Protestant background. I’m not entirely sure I agree that Jesus was only personally involved in those two, however:

Baptism: by John the Baptist. Obviously, Jesus didn’t need the remission of Original Sin, but He participated as a sign.

Reconciliation: Jesus didn’t need His sins forgiven, since he was sinless, but I think we can all agree that He forgave other peoples’ sins in the Gospels.

Communion: Last Supper, of course.

Confirmation: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the instance of Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit on his friends is associated with Confirmation, though the sacrament as we know and practice it today developed later. Jesus didn’t need the Holy Spirit’s gifts himself, I would imagine, since the two are both part of the Trinity in the first place.

Matrimony: Arguably His presence at the wedding in Cana could be thought of as ‘participating.’ I’ll just throw in that, in western Catholic belief, the priest doesn’t bestow the Sacrament on the spouses, he merely presides over it. I’m pretty sure the spouses bestow it on each other. So I guess His presence could be thought of as similar to a priest’s presence. Again, anyone can feel free to correct me if I’m not quite right.

Holy Orders: Besides being the High Priest himself, he ordained his followers to go out and do His job in the world.

Anointing the Sick: Jesus healed sick people all the time, both spiritually and physically. Once again, He Himself didn’t really need to be cured of a disease.

Sorry for not quoting chapter and verse on this, I was mostly making general statements. I can look up the Biblical references later if you’d like. Hope this helps!

Christ Instituted ALL Seven Sacraments:thumbsup:

But “received” only two?

Why, and what is the reason for this?

Good POST, and THANK YOU!

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Christ Instituted ALL Seven Sacraments:thumbsup:

But “received” only two?

Why, and what is the reason for this?

Good POST, and THANK YOU!

God Bless,
Pat

Note that John’s baptism was not sacramental. While Jesus participated in the Last Supper, and consecrated the Eucharist, there is no evidence that He partook of it.

26* Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; 28* for this is my blood of the * covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Matthew 26:26-27

 

[Catholic4Christ]

But “received” only two?

Why, and what is the reason for this?

Ah okay received. Gotcha

Well, in regards to Baptism, I’m not sure if it is accurate to say that He ‘received’ it in the same way we do. Again, Jesus has no need for Baptism, since God has no Original Sin. But it was a sign, and a perfect opportunity for Him to be announced as the Messiah.
I have also heard that historically the high priest is supposed to be ceremonially washed, so as THE High Priest, Jesus fulfills this by being Baptized.

As for communion, I don’t know if this a great explanation, but since it is the sacrifice of the Cross made present, it’s not like He wasn’t going to participate in his own sacrifice. I honestly can’t explain this one as well, maybe someone else can.

 

[Khalid]

Jesus participated directly in Baptism, Communion, Penance (although he had nothing to confess), Anointing the Sick, and (bestowing) Holy Orders, off the top of my head.

I don’t know if he did Confirmation, and know that he did not do Matrimony.

He received Baptism and Penance (“Do penance, for the Kingdom of God is at hand”: he responded to this call of St John the Baptist), gave Penance, instituted the Eucharist, bestowed Holy Orders, and Anointed the Sick, and even was himself Anointed if one counts his burial, or the woman who anointed him with the expensive salve in anticipation of his Passion, even though she didn’t have Holy Orders.

 

[PJM]

=Khalid;8787951]Jesus participated directly in Baptism, Communion, Penance (although he had nothing to confess), Anointing the Sick, and (bestowing) Holy Orders, off the top of my head.

I don’t know if he did Confirmation, and know that he did not do Matrimony.

He received Baptism and Penance (“Do penance, for the Kingdom of God is at hand”: he responded to this call of St John the Baptist), gave Penance, instituted the Eucharist, bestowed Holy Orders, and Anointed the Sick, and even was himself Anointed if one counts his burial, or the woman who anointed him with the expensive salve in anticipation of his Passion, even though she didn’t have Holy Orders.

Where dear friend did Jesus receive the sacrament of Pennance /Confesson?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Khalid]

The same time as he was baptized by John, even though, as baptism itself, he didn’t actually have anything to repent of, as he was sinless (for John said, “Do penance [or repent], for the Kingdom of God is at hand”). He also gave penance, or reconciliation, many times. I’m trying to establish that Christ participated in, on both sides, most of the sacraments, although we know he wasn’t married and we don’t know if he took the Eucharist (which I doubt, him participating in representing his own sacrifice to himself; from the context of the Institution, it doesn’t seem as if Jesus participated).

Confirmation has also been answered: the Holy Spirit descending (Christ received), and Pentecost (Christ gave).

He directly instituted 6 of the 7 sacraments (all except Matrimony), spoke of Matrimony as a sacrament on several occasions (even if he didn’t institute it as obviously as the Eucharist or Holy Orders), and bore witness to at least one marriage (Cana).

 

[PJM]

=Khalid;8792368]The same time as he was baptized by John, even though, as baptism itself, he didn’t actually have anything to repent of, as he was sinless (for John said, “Do penance [or repent], for the Kingdom of God is at hand”). He also gave penance, or reconciliation, many times. I’m trying to establish that Christ participated in, on both sides, most of the sacraments, although we know he wasn’t married and we don’t know if he took the Eucharist (which I doubt, him participating in representing his own sacrifice to himself; from the context of the Institution, it doesn’t seem as if Jesus participated).

Confirmation has also been answered: the Holy Spirit descending (Christ received), and Pentecost (Christ gave).

He directly instituted 6 of the 7 sacraments (all except Matrimony), spoke of Matrimony as a sacrament on several occasions (even if he didn’t institute it as obviously as the Eucharist or Holy Orders), and bore witness to at least one marriage (Cana).

My DEAR FRIEND in Christ;

ONLY because of your backgound and education am I raising these points:

I can explain why Jesus was Baptized and received Holy Communion Himself in His HUMAN Nature as they relate to essential elements of OUR own salvation.

But where is the evidence or logic in Christ being Confirmed?

And While I can show evidence of His Instituting 4 of the sacraments directly [the others by implication]; I am curious to know how you make this number “six?”

Looking forward to your response,

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[Khalid]

He was confirmed by the Father, as a witness to his divine mission, upon his baptism and the commencement of his public ministry, in accordance with the Mosaic/Deuteronomic law of witnesses.

I never myself conceived, before this thread, of the concept, nor the implications, of the descent of the Holy Spirit being a confirmation upon Jesus, as a dove, symbolizing peace (Shiloh) and sacrifice (dove-offerings), and, as tongues of flame, a confirmation upon the Apostles, allowing them to declare the Gospel to the world in all languages (a literal baptism of fire, the Spirit which either/or [or both/and] proceeds from the Father and the Son, or the Father through the Son).

It shows I have a long way before I’m even a beginning systematic theologian. I have no intent of eisegeting a kind of Adoptionism here, which I see the confirmation of Christ could be interpreted as - the ancient heresy of the Christ being united with the Jesus in a form of gnostico-Nestorianism - the confirmation was not necessary, but was “to fulfill all righteousness” - the requirements of the Mosaic law, and as a witness unto the world.

 

[PJM]

=Khalid;8794503]He was confirmed by the Father, as a witness to his divine mission, upon his baptism and the commencement of his public ministry, in accordance with the Mosaic/Deuteronomic law of witnesses.

I never myself conceived, before this thread, of the concept, nor the implications, of the descent of the Holy Spirit being a confirmation upon Jesus, as a dove, symbolizing peace (Shiloh) and sacrifice (dove-offerings), and, as tongues of flame, a confirmation upon the Apostles, allowing them to declare the Gospel to the world in all languages (a literal baptism of fire, the Spirit which either/or [or both/and] proceeds from the Father and the Son, or the Father through the Son).

It shows I have a long way before I’m even a beginning systematic theologian. I have no intent of eisegeting a kind of Adoptionism here, which I see the confirmation of Christ could be interpreted as - the ancient heresy of the Christ being united with the Jesus in a form of gnostico-Nestorianism - the confirmation was not necessary, but was “to fulfill all righteousness” - the requirements of the Mosaic law, and as a witness unto the world.

MANY THANKS:thumbsup:

I don’t agree with it BUT it is good information to have.

God Bless,
Pat