Jesus quotes only?

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I came across someone on a message board (who is very very political) and discussed religion with him. He only takes the words of Jesus in quotes as the only basis for his faith. He does not believe that Jesus is God the Son but says he believes in the Trinity? He believes that every time in the Gospel it says “Jesus said” that that is actually quoting Jesus. He doesnt take into account Pauls writings just the quotes from Jesus. So therefore he can make up things like “Jesus never said homosexual acts are wrong.” How to respond to such a person who always thinks he is right by going back to the exact words of Jesus?
 
IIRC he is following the Jefferson Bible – as in Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States. Jefferson is great as one of the Founding Fathers of the USA, but he suffers as a Father of the Catholic Church.

I’d also learn a bit about authority, such as who has authority to determine what Scripture says and how it is understood. Does Jefferson have that authority, or does the Magesterium?
 
He is pretty anti-Catholic so once I bring up Magesterium he will say he doesnt follow man but Jesus words only.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
He is pretty anti-Catholic so once I bring up Magesterium he will say he doesnt follow man but Jesus words only.
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Perhaps you could talk to him about how the Bible was assemblied? Who put it together? Who determined the canon of the Bible? Why were certain things included and others omitted?

Jesus didn’t write anything down, and he didn’t mention a table of contents for the Bible.
 
ok thanks for you help, I’ll let you know how it goes, Peace and all good!
 
You’re welcome. Be thankful that this is a blessed chance for you to grow in your own faith. Prayers for you and your friend. :byzsoc:
 
Yes and it is a blessing to talk to you. But sometimes these conversations get heated. He just talked about the councel of Nicea and voting on Jesus divinity as this:

“Yep. And they voted on the divinity of Jesus. But the ‘best’ part is that they were commissioned to do so by the very Power that pounded the nails through Jesus’ hands and feet to the cross.”
 
Oh, yeah, patience and charity are essential in those moments! I try to remind myself that I am not trying to win an argument, prove anyone wrong, or convert anyone (though I am tempted to do all three). If anything I am deepening my own conversion, and we all need continual conversion.

Heated discussions are great, for they remind us how utterly important these things are to you, me, and your friend.
 
your comments really helped. Sometimes we get so caught up in being “right” we lose charity.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
your comments really helped. Sometimes we get so caught up in being “right” we lose charity.
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Oh, I know what you mean! I want to be right all the time!!! 😃

But being wrong gives us a chance to ask for forgiveness and strengthen our practice in the virtue of humility.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
He is pretty anti-Catholic so once I bring up Magesterium he will say he doesnt follow man but Jesus words only.
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If he’s anti-Catholic then how will he understand that the teachings of the Church are made up of many instruments – Scripture, the Pope, the Magisterium, The Catechism, Canon Law, Letters, Encylicals and Councils – over the centuries?

Since we view that the Sacred Magisterium is always infallible – the Pope, not always, but when speaking Ex Cathedra, etc., he’s not going to understand infallibility either.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
I came across someone on a message board (who is very very political) and discussed religion with him. He only takes the words of Jesus in quotes as the only basis for his faith. He does not believe that Jesus is God the Son but says he believes in the Trinity? He believes that every time in the Gospel it says “Jesus said” that that is actually quoting Jesus. He doesnt take into account Pauls writings just the quotes from Jesus. So therefore he can make up things like “Jesus never said homosexual acts are wrong.” How to respond to such a person who always thinks he is right by going back to the exact words of Jesus?
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I’m unsure Jesus ever “taught” anything was wrong except for hypocrisy. However, he did continually teach right behavior and he did define wrong behavior when necessary (for example, his definition of adultery - a known wrong so he didn’t have to tell them so - included divorced/remarried persons). NOTE: by “taught” I mean new instructions.

While Jesus did not discuss homosexuality per se, he did teach that marriage is only possible between one man and one woman. He also taught to avoid various sexual sins (adultery, licentiousness/fornication, lasciviousness). Put the two teachings together and it is simply impossible to conclude homosexual behavior to be morally acceptable.
 
How would it be possible to have every quote Jesus ever spoke?
The Bible doesn’t pretend to offer us that - it simply provides a glimpse into the life of Christ on Earth.
 
Most of the rebuttals people are suggesting might work against someone who proclaims “sola scriptura”, but this is something else entirely. Try this Bible verse:

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Still, if the man strictly believes that ONLY the quote of Christ are true, he may dismiss this as well. Still, everything Christ said was not written down. It’s just a fact…but those other things He said are just as important if he believes Chris is who He says He is.

Why does he not believe Christ is the Son of God? Christ’s words himself:
**
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM!**

Luke 22:70
They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, "You are right in saying I am."

This means Jesus is GOD! Everything he said was important, not just the stuff written down.
 
He just told me he uses the Thomas Jefferson Bible or Bibles?
 
Wow, I haven’t met someone who is “red-ink only” yet. That’s a very narrow view on Jesus. Jesus did so much more, said so much more than can be retained in scripture. Ther red-ink followers need to know that the best perspective of what and who Jesus is are his first disciples and those friends of the original twelve. Just like when you are around a person long enough you know them so thoroughly that you can guess what they think and how they will react. I believe the first disciples knew Jesus this well and listened to him with unbroken attention. I think they are very affirming in what would be “Christ’s Church”. And of course, the church today that holds to whta was taught by the original church is the Roman Catholic Church.

Lastly, red-inkers have another problem, and it’s a whopper. What about all the stuff Jesus didn’t say or decide on? Jesus never said not to poach animals, therefore is it okay for me to wipe out entire populations of animals just for fun? Or what about a quadrinity? Jesus never spoke of a trinity, so why can’t there be a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Spirit Dog?

Anyways, it surely is a bad and narrow position to take. Reading your thread of dialogue, I do agree, treat the person with charity and love, and lots of patience.

God love you,

Travis
 
I ended the conversation with him in peace for now. Hopefully that was the right move.
 
TravisDover said:
Wow, I haven’t met someone who is “red-ink only” yet. That’s a very narrow view on Jesus. Jesus did so much more, said so much more than can be retained in scripture. Ther red-ink followers need to know that the best perspective of what and who Jesus is are his first disciples and those friends of the original twelve. Just like when you are around a person long enough you know them so thoroughly that you can guess what they think and how they will react. I believe the first disciples knew Jesus this well and listened to him with unbroken attention. I think they are very affirming in what would be “Christ’s Church”. And of course, the church today that holds to whta was taught by the original church is the Roman Catholic Church.

Lastly, red-inkers have another problem, and it’s a whopper. What about all the stuff Jesus didn’t say or decide on? Jesus never said not to poach animals, therefore is it okay for me to wipe out entire populations of animals just for fun? Or what about a quadrinity? Jesus never spoke of a trinity, so why can’t there be a Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the Spirit Dog?

Anyways, it surely is a bad and narrow position to take. Reading your thread of dialogue, I do agree, treat the person with charity and love, and lots of patience.

God love you,

Travis
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Honestly Travis, its really unreal. He really twisted everything I said and kept saying “do you believe what Jesus said in the quotes or not.?” I wonder if he is a Mason.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
He just told me he uses the Thomas Jefferson Bible or Bibles?
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That’s the one I mentioned earlier and it’s, as Travis said, a “red-ink only” Bible. By making a personal selection of the Bible, Jefferson did what Martin Luther did before him and what Marcion did back in the 2nd Century A.D. More info on Marcionites here.
LittleFlower378 said:
I ended the conversation with him in peace for now. Hopefully that was the right move.
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I think so. Even his Jefferson Bible says, “For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.” Though you may have some disagreements about the Bible (and other things), it seems Jesus is still a part of the conversation.
 
Just thought that he may also be influenced by the Jesus Seminar.

They take the Jefferson Bible approach one step further by voting on which of those “red-ink only” sayings & recorded deeds are (in their opinion) true.
“The Jesus Seminar is taking their view directly to Christians in the pew, and they’re saying, ‘The Jesus you know from your childhood is a myth, and you should be liberated from that,’” said Hudson. “What is up for grabs is nothing less than the authority of the Pope, canon law and the distinction between genuine doctrine and heresy.”
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Founded in 1985 by Protestant theologian Robert Funk, the Jesus Seminar believes that the authentic voice of Christ has been lost in the Gospels and obscured in the memory of the early Church. The seminar members’ search for the “real Jesus” has led them to conclude that only 18% of his reported sayings and 16% of his deeds are probable or definite. The rest are unlikely or false, they claim.
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