Jesus quoting Deutrocanonicals

[dancny]

I was just listening to Fr. Pacwa talking about Jesus and the N.T. quoting or referancing the deuterocanonical books. Can anyone give me a list of some sort of the quotes/referances quoted?

Second question, if I may, Jude quotes from Enoch. Does this give Enoch any validity?

 

[ziapueblo]

I was just listening to Fr. Pacwa talking about Jesus and the N.T. quoting or referancing the deuterocanonical books. Can anyone give me a list of some sort of the quotes/referances quoted?

Second question, if I may, Jude quotes from Enoch. Does this give Enoch any validity?

Check out this (http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html)

Not only does St. Jude quote from Enoch, but St. Paul quotes from pagan poets and a letter of his that is not even in the New Testament. Read this, it will give you great insight on the Deutercanonical Books.

Hope it helps.

 

[Church_Militant]

I was just listening to Fr. Pacwa talking about Jesus and the N.T. quoting or referancing the deuterocanonical books. Can anyone give me a list of some sort of the quotes/referances quoted?

Here ya go!
DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Second question, if I may, Jude quotes from Enoch. Does this give Enoch any validity?

Only insofar as it shows that the apostles quoted non-canonical traditional text as authoritative historical information, and also showing that they were familiar with them.

BTW, that same epistles also quotes from The Assumption of Moses, about the debate over Moses body between St. Michael the Archangel, and the devil, so again, we have a citation of a non-canonical Jewish traditional source by an apostle.

St. Paul also refers to Jewish traditional sources in 2nd Timothy 3:8 when he names the two guys who opposed Moses. Neither one is named in the Old Testament.
Infallibility & How The Apostles Taught the Study of Sacred Tradition.

Tradition? No way!

 

[hawkeye125646]

Here are examples: Matthew 6:19 'Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moth and woodworm destroy them and thieves can break in and steal. But store up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where neither moth nor woodworm destroys them and thieves cannot break in and steal. Sirach 29:10 Spend your money on your brother or your friend, do not leave it under a stone to rust away. 11 Use your wealth as the Most High has decreed; you will find that more profitable than gold.
Matthew 7: 11 If you, then, evil as you are, know how to give your children what is good, how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him! 12 'So always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that is the Law and the Prophets. 13 'Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; Tobit 4:11 Wisdom brings up her own children and cares for those who seek her. 12 Whoever loves her loves life, those who seek her early will be filled with joy. 13 Whoever possesses her will inherit honour, and wherever he walks the Lord will bless him.
Matthew 16:18 So I now say to you: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my community. And the gates of the underworld can never overpower it. Wisdom 16:13 Yes, you are the one with power over life and death, bringing to the gates of Hades and back again.
Matthew 22:25 Now we had a case involving seven brothers; the first married and then died without children, leaving his wife to his brother; Tobit 3:8 For she had been given in marriage seven times, and Asmodeus, the worst of demons, had killed her bridegrooms one after another before ever they had slept with her as man with wife. The servant-girl said, ‘Yes, you kill your bridegrooms yourself. That makes seven already to whom you have been given, and you have not once been in luck yet Tobit 7:11 I have tried to find a husband for her seven times among our kinsmen, and all of them have died the first evening, on going to her room. But for the present, my boy, eat and drink; the Lord will grant you his grace and peace.’ Tobias spoke out, ‘I will not hear of eating and drinking till you have come to a decision about me.’ Raguel answered, ‘Very well. Since, by the prescription of the Book of Moses she is given to you, Heaven itself decrees she shall be yours. I therefore entrust your sister to you. From now on you are her brother and she is your sister. She is given to you from today for ever. The Lord of heaven favour you tonight, my child, and grant you his grace and peace.’
Matthew 24:15 'So when you see the appalling abomination, of which the prophet Daniel spoke, set up in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those in Judaea must escape to the mountains; I Maccabees 1:54On the fifteenth day of Chislev in the year 145 the king built the appalling abomination on top of the altar of burnt offering; and altars were built in the surrounding towns of Judah.
Matthew 27:43 He has put his trust in God; now let God rescue him if he wants him. For he did say, “I am God’s son.” Wisdom 2:18 For if the upright man is God’s son, God will help him and rescue him from the clutches of his enemies.
Mark4:16 Similarly, those who are sown on patches of rock are people who, when first they hear the word, welcome it at once with joy. 17 But they have no root deep down and do not last; should some trial come, or some persecution on account of the word, at once they fall away. Sirach 40:15 The sprigs of the godless will not make many branches, tainted roots find only hard rock. 16 The reed that grows by every lake and river’s edge is the first plant to be uprooted.
Mark 9:47 And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell 48 where their worm will never die nor their fire be put out. Judith 16:17 Woe to the nations who rise against my race! The Lord Almighty will punish them on judgement day. He will send fire and worms in their flesh and they will weep with pain for evermore.
Luke 13:29 And people from east and west, from north and south, will come and sit down at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 ‘Look, there are those now last who will be first, and those now first who will be last.’ Baruch 4:37 Look, the children you watched go away are on their way home; reassembled from east and west, they are on their way home at the Holy One’s command, rejoicing in God’s glory.
Luke 21:24 'For great misery will descend on the land and retribution on this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive to every gentile country; and Jerusalem will be trampled down by the gentiles until their time is complete. Sirach 28:18 Many have fallen by the edge of the sword, but many more have fallen by the tongue.
John 4:48 Jesus said to him, ‘Unless you see signs and portents you will not believe!’ Wisdom 8:8 Or if you are eager for wide experience, she knows the past, she forecasts the future; she knows how to turn maxims, and solve riddles; she has foreknowledge of signs and wonders, and of the unfolding of the ages and the times.
John 5:18 But that only made the Jews even more intent on killing him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he spoke of God as his own Father and so made himself God’s equal. Wisdom 2:16 In his opinion we are counterfeit; he avoids our ways as he would filth; he proclaims the final end of the upright as blessed and boasts of having God for his father.

 

[Erich]

St. Paul quotes from pagan poets and a letter of his that is not even in the New Testament.

Paul’s Third Letter to the Corinthians can be found at this link

 

[Publisher]

The writers of the NT alluded to the apoc/dueto books…no direct quotes…there is no evidence Jesus ever quoted from them…but the writers of the gospels used them as they were Greek speaking LXX using Jews…conservative believers accept that some of the original apostles actually contributed to the NT…those of us who have a more “liberal” understanding of scriptural development do not beleive any apostle…other than Paul…wrote any NT book.

There are those scholars of Catholic and Protestant persuasions who do not embrace the “conservative” belief of scriptural development…it is not a “Protestant” thing…but one must decide which scholarly work makes the most sense.

 

[Abu]

Publisher #6
those of us who have a more “liberal” understanding of scriptural development do not beleive any apostle…other than Paul…wrote any NT book….one must decide which scholarly work makes the most sense.

Hardly.

Saint Jerome translated the ancient Greek and Hebrew Old Testament (46 books) and the Greek New Testament (27 books) into Latin and combined them into the first one volume set of Sacred Scriptures called “the Bible”. [Fr. John Trigilio on Aug/20/2010 (EWTN)].

Jesus did not build His Church on Peter for anyone else to pick and choose.
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.” ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority:
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

The Septuagint version of Scripture, from which Christ quoted, includes the Deuterocanonical books. The Septuagint, complete with the Deuterocanononical books, was first embraced, not by the Council of Trent, but by Jesus of Nazareth and his Apostles.

As Jesus of Nazareth did not write anything and founded His Church on Simon Peter with primacy and infallibility, His followers wrote the New Testament and His Church infallibly declared which writings in both the Old and New Testaments are the inspired Word of God, and no others. These writings are without error.

The books that actually are the inspired Word of God was decided by Pope Damasus at a Council of Rome in 382, confirmed at the Councils of Hippo, 393, Carthage III 397, Carthage IV in 419 and canonised at the Council of Trent (1545-1563).

No one else has any authority to define or change what Christ’s Church has taught infallibly.

 

[ErricFiggy]

Here ya go!
DEUTEROCANONICAL BOOKS IN THE NEW TESTAMENTOnly insofar as it shows that the apostles quoted non-canonical traditional text as authoritative historical information, and also showing that they were familiar with them.

BTW, that same epistles also quotes from The Assumption of Moses, about the debate over Moses body between St. Michael the Archangel, and the devil, so again, we have a citation of a non-canonical Jewish traditional source by an apostle.

St. Paul also refers to Jewish traditional sources in 2nd Timothy 3:8 when he names the two guys who opposed Moses. Neither one is named in the Old Testament.
Infallibility & How The Apostles Taught the Study of Sacred Tradition.

Tradition? No way!

I’m sorry that this is off topic, but Moses was Assumed into Heaven?

 

[Publisher]

Hardly.

Saint Jerome translated the ancient Greek and Hebrew Old Testament (46 books) and the Greek New Testament (27 books) into Latin and combined them into the first one volume set of Sacred Scriptures called “the Bible”. [Fr. John Trigilio on Aug/20/2010 (EWTN)].

Jesus did not build His Church on Peter for anyone else to pick and choose.
“You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church.” (Mt 16:18)
“The gates of hell will not prevail against it.”(Mt 16:18)
I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.” ( Mt 16:19)
“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven.” (Mt 16:19)

Sole authority:
“Strengthen your brethren.” (Lk 22:32)
“Feed My sheep.”(Jn 21:17).

The Septuagint version of Scripture, from which Christ quoted, includes the Deuterocanonical books. The Septuagint, complete with the Deuterocanononical books, was first embraced, not by the Council of Trent, but by Jesus of Nazareth and his Apostles.

As Jesus of Nazareth did not write anything and founded His Church on Simon Peter with primacy and infallibility, His followers wrote the New Testament and His Church infallibly declared which writings in both the Old and New Testaments are the inspired Word of God, and no others. These writings are without error.

The books that actually are the inspired Word of God was decided by Pope Damasus at a Council of Rome in 382, confirmed at the Councils of Hippo, 393, Carthage III 397, Carthage IV in 419 and canonised at the Council of Trent (1545-1563).

No one else has any authority to define or change what Christ’s Church has taught infallibly.

Understood…that is your religious belief…not all Catholics have as conservative view of scholarship as you do…there is no evidence Jesus ever quoted and apoc/duet book…the writers of the NT DID quote from the LXX as it was the only version…other than Paul…that they knew of…no evidence at all they were other than Diaspora Greek speaking Jews…other than Paul…conservative believers do believe the apostles wrote some of the gospels…and “John’s” letters…and “Peter’s” letters…but that is not the consenes of most biblical scholars…it is conservative faith based scholarship…but not most biblical scholarship…Catholic included…but you must believe as you must believe.

 

[Abu]

Publisher #9
conservative believers do believe the apostles wrote some of the gospels…and “John’s” letters…and “Peter’s” letters…but that is not the consenes of most biblical scholars

The Catholic Church does not rely on “conservative” or “liberal” or on any modernist “consensus”, but on Her authority from Christ, the Son of God. “Most biblical scholars”, who are known as “modernists”, dissent from Christ and His Church which, with His authority, declared which Sacred Scriptures are the Word of God, no more and no less. The modernists have no authority. The two thousand years of Tradition in Christ’s Church affirm the Gospels, and there is no basis for dissent.

First, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., in *The Catholic Catechism *(Doubleday, 1975, p 45) points out that the rabbinical school at Jamnia circa A.D. 100 redefined the canon of the Old testament for the Jews, leaving out the seven books from their Palestinian canon because not conforming to the Pentateuch, or written after the time of Esdra (circa 400 B.C.) or not in Hebrew in Palestine, and “made a fence around it.”

Now comes a German scientist, Carsten Peter Thiede, director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, who, with Matthew D’Ancona, is about to dash to pieces the Bultmann-built edifice of modernist exegesis.

Their book, Eyewitness To Jesus: Amazing New Manuscript Evidence About the Origin of the Gospel (Doubleday, 1996), is about a small piece of papyrus held at Magdalen College, Oxford, which is the oldest fragment of St. Matthew’s Gospel in existence today.

The fragment contains disjointed segments of Matt. 26, but even more important than the writing style, which Thiede p(name removed by moderator)ointed to the time of Jesus’ life, is the use of KS, an abbreviated form of Kyrios, to refer to Jesus as Lord God — meaning that the ancient author believed that Jesus is divine.

Thiede, a papyrologist, furthermore concludes that St. Matthew’s Gospel must have been the first Gospel written. The implications of this are enormous. As Thiede and D’Ancona write in their book:

“Bultmann was wrong: The authors of the Gospel could hear far more than the faintest whisper of Jesus’ voice. Indeed, the first readers of St. Matthew may have heard the very words which the Nazarene preacher spoke during his ministry, may have listened to the parables when they were first delivered to the peasant crowd; may even have asked the wise man questions and waited respectfully for answers. The voice they heard was not a whisper but the passionate oratory of a real man of humble origins whose teaching would change the world.”
ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/NEWBOOK.TXT

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

I’m sorry that this is off topic, but Moses was Assumed into Heaven?

Not Heaven in the sense of the beatific vision, but Abraham’s Bosom where the righteous were waiting for the firstfruit, Christ, to lead them into Heaven and grant them the vision. There is no question he was assumed for he appeared, alongside Elijah (the only other person known to be assumed), to Christ and the three apostles at the Transfiguration, an event depicting Christ fulfilling The Law (Moses known as The Lawgiver) and The Prophets (Elijah known as The Prophet).

 

[Publisher]

The Catholic Church does not rely on “conservative” or “liberal” or on any modernist “consensus”, but on Her authority from Christ, the Son of God. “Most biblical scholars”, who are known as “modernists”, dissent from Christ and His Church which, with His authority, declared which Sacred Scriptures are the Word of God, no more and no less. The modernists have no authority. The two thousand years of Tradition in Christ’s Church affirm the Gospels, and there is no basis for dissent.

First, Fr John A Hardon, S.J., in *The Catholic Catechism *(Doubleday, 1975, p 45) points out that the rabbinical school at Jamnia circa A.D. 100 redefined the canon of the Old testament for the Jews, leaving out the seven books from their Palestinian canon because not conforming to the Pentateuch, or written after the time of Esdra (circa 400 B.C.) or not in Hebrew in Palestine, and “made a fence around it.”

Now comes a German scientist, Carsten Peter Thiede, director of the Institute for Basic Epistemological Research in Paderborn, who, with Matthew D’Ancona, is about to dash to pieces the Bultmann-built edifice of modernist exegesis.

Their book, Eyewitness To Jesus: Amazing New Manuscript Evidence About the Origin of the Gospel (Doubleday, 1996), is about a small piece of papyrus held at Magdalen College, Oxford, which is the oldest fragment of St. Matthew’s Gospel in existence today.

The fragment contains disjointed segments of Matt. 26, but even more important than the writing style, which Thiede p(name removed by moderator)ointed to the time of Jesus’ life, is the use of KS, an abbreviated form of Kyrios, to refer to Jesus as Lord God — meaning that the ancient author believed that Jesus is divine.

Thiede, a papyrologist, furthermore concludes that St. Matthew’s Gospel must have been the first Gospel written. The implications of this are enormous. As Thiede and D’Ancona write in their book:

“Bultmann was wrong: The authors of the Gospel could hear far more than the faintest whisper of Jesus’ voice. Indeed, the first readers of St. Matthew may have heard the very words which the Nazarene preacher spoke during his ministry, may have listened to the parables when they were first delivered to the peasant crowd; may even have asked the wise man questions and waited respectfully for answers. The voice they heard was not a whisper but the passionate oratory of a real man of humble origins whose teaching would change the world.”
ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/NEWBOOK.TXT

Yes friend, I understand that is your position…I do not share it, nor do the bulk of biblical scholars who have spent their lives researching the textual and historical development of scripture…I wouldn’t expect you as a “conservative believer” yourself to accept anything less…you have provided your opinion on the matter and I respect that…I do not accept your conclusions…but I repsect your beliefs just the same.

Peace to you friend.

 

[Erich]

Yes friend, I understand that is your position…I do not share it, nor do the bulk of biblical scholars who have spent their lives researching the textual and historical development of scripture…I wouldn’t expect you as a “conservative believer” yourself to accept anything less…you have provided your opinion on the matter and I respect that…I do not accept your conclusions…but I repsect your beliefs just the same.

I no longer agree with any theory that purports to explain the “textual and historical development of scripture” if it does *not *agree with actual primary sources written by the earliest Christian historians (i.e. the Church Fathers).

I highly recommend that you read The Authors of the Gospels in its entirety.

 

[Erich]

there is no evidence Jesus ever quoted and apoc/duet book

                  Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in                      heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.                     
                 Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15                      - what you hate, do not do to others.                     
                 Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows                      Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.                     
                 Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith                      11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.                     
                 Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as                      Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.                     
                 Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made                      part of the deuterocanonical books.                     
                 Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades"                      references Wisdom 16:13. 

                 John 4:48 - Jesus' usage of                      "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.                     
                 John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.                     
                 John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.                     
                 John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1                      Macc. 4:59.                     
                 John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the                      Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.                     
                 John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5                      where branches are broken off.

Matthew and John were eyewitness Apostles.

 

[Publisher]

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.
Matt… 7:12 - Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.
Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.
Matt. 9:36 - the people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.
Matt. 11:25 - Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.
Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references Wisdom 16:13.

                 John 4:48 - Jesus' usage of                      "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.                     
                 John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.                     
                 John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.                     
                 John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1                      Macc. 4:59.                     
                 John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the                      Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.                     
                 John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5                      where branches are broken off.

Matthew and John were eyewitness Apostles.

The writers of the gospels did use the LXX…the writers of the gospels were not “eyewitness” accounts…nor were they written by any of the original apostles…I understand that you believe differently…I have no stake in opposing your beliefs. I do not believe there is compelling evidence to embrace your beliefs.

Those scholars of biblical history and development have a much more compelling arguement in my opinion…one not motivated by religious beliefs…we disagree…apostolic authorship is “tradition”…not history.

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Publisher
there is no evidence Jesus ever quoted and apoc/duet book

And there is also no evidence stating Jesus never quoted the deutors. Second, nowhere is our Lord instructed to quote scripture in order to be valid.

 

[Publisher]

And there is also no evidence stating Jesus never quoted the deutors. Second, nowhere is our Lord instructed to quote scripture in order to be valid.

I don’t think I ever indicated he was instructed to quote scripture…not sure your point nor am I sure WHY you would address something to me I never hinted at? You have nothing to prove to me friend Nicea…I wasn’t offering a “challenge” of any kind…just a point of view.

As I understand what was being discussed is that because Jesus quoted the LXX and by inference the apoc/duet books, they had some authority BECAUSE Jesus quoted them…there is no evidence that Jesus used the LXX…however the writers of the New Testament did use the LXX, so any “quotes” they used attributed to Jesus quoting OT scripture would have been from the LXX…not because Jesus quoted fromt he LXX, but because the LXX was used as the source for “quotes” in the New Testament.

 

[Nicea325]

I don’t think I ever indicated he was instructed to quote scripture…not sure your point nor am I sure WHY you would address something to me I never hinted at? You have nothing to prove to me friend Nicea…I wasn’t offering a “challenge” of any kind…just a point of view.

As I understand what was being discussed is that because Jesus quoted the LXX and by inference the apoc/duet books, they had some authority BECAUSE Jesus quoted them…there is no evidence that Jesus used the LXX…however the writers of the New Testament did use the LXX, so any “quotes” they used attributed to Jesus quoting OT scripture would have been from the LXX…not because Jesus quoted fromt he LXX, but because the LXX was used as the source for “quotes” in the New Testament.

Oh I know my friend, I was not challenging you at all. I was merely stating there is no empirical evidence stating Jesus never quoted the LXX. What many people do not know or merely ignore is the fact,different groups of Jews (Essenes,Sadducees,Pharisees,etc) during Jesus times were quoting different books and at times (if I am correct) non-Jewish writings. I have never really understood the fuss over the deuters and Jesus not quoting them or vice versa. Is it detrimental for our salvation?

 

[Abu]

With the lack of real faith among so many “scholars” and the tens of thousands of Protestant sects, no wonder there is confusion outside of the Catholic Church.

The Pontifical Biblical Commission in the 1964 Instruction warned that “There are others who have as their starting-point a wrong notion of faith, taking it that faith is indifferent to historical truth, and is indeed incompatible with it. Others practically deny a priori the historical value and character of the documents of revelation. Others finally there are who on the one hand underestimate the authority which the Apostles had as witnesses of Christ, and the office and influence which they wielded in the primitive community, whilst on the other hand they overestimate the creative capacity of the community itself. All these aberrations are not only opposed to Catholic doctrine, but are also devoid of any scientific foundation, and are foreign to the genuine principles of the historical method.”

The PBC teaches that preachers should “shun what is merely newfangled or what is insufficiently proved”, and for writers, “When they narrate biblical events they are not to introduce imaginary additions at variance with the truth” and “they should keep altogether clear of the precarious fancies of innovators.”

In his address of October 14, 2008, to the constituents of the Fourteenth General Congregation of the Synod of Bishops, Pope Benedict XVI commented on the need for critical analysis of the biblical text to be thoroughly informed by the hermeneutics of faith, as called for in Dei Verbum of the Second Vatican Council. Catholic form-critics do not deny their faith; they simply do not use their faith when they are doing their form-critical thinking. Often they strive to put their form-criticism aside when they are saying their prayers, but they also often preach and think about results of this method which tend to call into question the theology that they have learned. And that is a big reason why this dualism of exegesis and theology must be overcome, in the words of Pope Benedict XVI, “for the life and the mission of the Church, for the future of faith.”
[See LT143 - Regarding Pope Benedict XVI's Address on Biblical Exegesis and Theology of 14 October 2008]

 

[Publisher]

Oh I know my friend, I was not challenging you at all. I was merely stating there is no empirical evidence stating Jesus never quoted the LXX. What many people do not know or merely ignore is the fact,different groups of Jews (Essenes,Sadducees,Pharisees,etc) during Jesus times were quoting different books and at times (if I am correct) non-Jewish writings. I have never really understood the fuss over the deuters and Jesus not quoting them or vice versa. Is it detrimental for our salvation?

It’s not an issue whether he quoted the LXX or not to me…my only issue is when those who seek to “prove” that the LXX is the “scriptures Jesus used” has no basis in fact…it is doubtful he used the LXX being a Palestinian Jew teaching within the confines of the Temple influence which was very “Jewish”…the Pharisees and Saducees were not too keen on the Hellenist influence within Judaism…the Pharisees…as can be attested after the destruction of the Temple and their conflict with the fledgling Christian sect of Judaism. Christians used the LXX as most of them were Greek speaking Jews who had little or no knowledge of Hebrew.

No, whethere Jesus ever quoted the duet/apoc book ro used the LXX has no bearing on the salvation he offers to all who believe in him.