Jesus said He'd be dead for three days and three nights -- but wasn't he really dead for a bit over a day?

[CEM5]

Thanks for your response. That frankly sounds a bit speculative to me; I’m also unsure of how those other aspects (thousand years and the number three) relate to it. Also, as I understood it, 7 represented completeness.

Hi PazzoGrande,

I should clarify and correct myself as to why I used the word “completeness”…and you are correct in saying 7 represented completeness, although it is more “a complete series”.

In the book “Why Do Catholics Do That” by Kevin Orlin Johnson, Ph.D.

"…3 stands for everything that is perfect…So when you have three of anything, you have all there is, or at least enough: that’s why we say, “Holy, holy, holy” – thrice holy is as holy as anything can be. That’s why we always put three wise men in manger scenes – the Bible doesn’t say how many there really were, but if you show three, then all civilized persons will understand that enough Magi came, and by extension that all Wise Men, all Gentiles who seek him, will recognize Christ.
“…the significance of the numer 3 is why Christ was three days in the tomb: he was there enough time.” which is why I said he was there for completely enough time]

“Seven of anything makes a complete series: days in a week, for instance; the Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit – often represented by seven tongues of fire on Pentecost banners and vestments – the seven Sacraments, the Seven Virtues, or the seven Deadly Sins. There are seven petitions in the Lord’s Prayer – a complete series of petitions. …”

blessings,\CEM

 

[Rahn]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that any of the Gospels state that the day Jesus died was on a Friday.

 

[JonathonofOhio]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that any of the Gospels state that the day Jesus died was on a Friday.

All the Evangelists state that Jesus died on the day of the Parasceve (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31), and there can be no doubt from Luke 23:54-56 and John 19:31, that this was Friday. But on what day of the month of Nisan did that particular Friday fall? St. John distinctly points to Nisan 14, while the Synoptists, by implying that the Last Supper was the Paschal meal, convey the impression that Jesus was crucified on Nisan 15. But this is hardly reconcilable with the following facts: when Judas left the table, the disciples imagined he was going to buy the things which were needed for the feast (John 13:29)—a purchase which was impossible if the feast had begun; after the Supper, Our Lord and his disciples left the city, as also did the men detailed to arrest Him—this, on Nisan 15, would have been contrary to Exodus 12:22; the next morning the Jews had not yet eaten the Passover; moreover, during that day the Council convened; Simon was apparently coming from work (Luke 23:26); Jesus and the two robbers were executed and were taken down from the crosses; Joseph of Arimathea bought fine linen (Mark 15:46), and Nicodemus brought “a mixture of myrrh and aloes about an hundred pound weight” (John 19:39) for the burial; lastly the women prepared spices for the embalming of the Saviour’s body (Luke 23:55)—all things which would have been a desecration on Nisan 15. Most commentators, whether they think the Last Supper to have been the Paschal meal or an anticipation thereof, hold that Christ, as St. John states, was crucified on the Parasceve of the Pasch, Friday, Nisan 14 (Taken from: newadvent.org/cathen/11476a.htm).

As for it being three days and three nights:

Many bible versus clearly state that Jesus was supposed to rise on the third day (Matthew 16:21, 17:23, 20:19, 27:64, Luke 9:22, 18:33, 24:7, 24:46, Acts 10:40, Mark 9:31, John 2:19), which obviously means that Jesus didn’t mean for us to take him literally. When he said three days and three nights he did not mean complete days and nights; but part of three days, and three nights taken according to the way that the Hebrews counted their days and nights: from evening to evening.

A day in those times was from sun down to sun down the next day. There was so specific length of a day as we have now. You cannot think in modern times and then try to apply that way of thinking to the bible, which was not based on our modern calendars and times, and the way we view a full day.

If he died on Friday and was buried that would be counted as one day. And lets not overlook that there was darkness up until noon that day, which no doubt was an ominous sign to the people in those days (perhaps it was an eclipse), and probably played a role in how they counted it as a day. So you have one day (Friday). He was taken down and buried on that day.

Now Saturday would have been the Sabbath day, so that would be one more full day making it two days.

He rose from the dead on Sunday which would be the third day, making it three days total, and making it true that he ‘rose on the third day’.

So what about Wednesday? It doesn’t work, not according to how the Hebrews kept time and counted days, and the simple fact that the gospel writers specified it was on a Friday.

The problem with a Wednesday Crucifixion is that if you consider he died on the cross at noon or even at three in the afternoon then that would be one day that he was dead, then Thursday two days, Friday three days, Saturday four days and Sunday rising that would be five days. Even if you don’t count Wednesday and Sunday in that scenario then he rose on the fourth day instead of the third day as promised.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Scripture has Jesus telling us that He’d be dead for three days and three nights.

Actually, scripture uses different formulas in different places; sometimes it says he will arise “on the third day”, other times it says “He will arise after three days and three nights.”

But, doesn’t that contradict what really happened?

No, for he arose on the third day – and stayed risen every day after that. But more importantly, the phrase is not about time so much as it is about the sign of the prophet Jonah.

In Matthew 16,18++, Jesus calls Simon peter “Son of Jonah”, although elsewhere Peter is called “Son of John”, while he is speaking about this sign and its meaning.
(Perhaps John=Jonah???); But there is a similar ambiguity about the meaning of Jonah spending three nights and three days in the belly of a fish; Literally he was in the “koils – or GUTS” which are taken to mean a “womb.” The point of those words in the old testament is to make sure the reader understood that Jonah was dead; and they are poetically contrasted against Jonah sleeping in the belly of the boat just before being eaten by the fish.

What isn’t obvious at first sight, is that the prophet Jonah’s journey in the belly of the boat, and then the fish, has a third journey of “three” days through Nineveh; it is on this three day journey, when Jonah was but ONE physical day through the three day walk – that the city repents. THAT’s the sign of Jonah. And associated with that sign, comes Jonah’s anger – which is associated with Peter’s denials – also on the theme of the third time.

To understand the meaning of Jesus’ words and his descent to the dead; means to go back to the prophet Jonas, and his descent to the dead – both in the boat of pagas, and then in the fish and sheol, and finally with the dead people of sin in Nineveh.

Jesus died at 3PM on Friday. Jews counted their days from the evening before; Easter Sunday started on what we would consider Saturday night. Jesus could have risen anytime from like 6PM Saturday night till (let’s say) as late as 9 AM Sunday morning. That’s not even two days, much less three days and three nights.

Why is there this discrepancy?

Because the prophecy of Jonah has similar discrepancies that relate to its meaning; and also because “after” three days and three nights is the same as “on the third day” depending on how the gospel writer was doing the arithmetic in their mind.

 

[Pure_and_Simple]

Scripture has Jesus telling us that He’d be dead for three days and three nights.

But, doesn’t that contradict what really happened? Jesus died at 3PM on Friday. Jews counted their days from the evening before; Easter Sunday started on what we would consider Saturday night. Jesus could have risen anytime from like 6PM Saturday night till (let’s say) as late as 9 AM Sunday morning. That’s not even two days, much less three days and three nights.

Why is there this discrepancy?

Here’s something else to throw into the mix: Jesus did not have to be crucified on a Friday in order for His crucifixion to precede the Sabbath because there could have been two Sabbaths during that week - depending on what day of the week the high feast Feast of Unleavened Bread) fell on. Read Numbers 28: 16-18. Verse 18 clearly indicated that the first day after Passover, Nisan 15, is to be observed as a Sabbath - and so it has been throughout Jewish history. And, in John 19:31, there it is stated that the Sabbath was a high day, or a special Sabbath. Two Sabbath days in a row is very well within the realm of possibility.
With the crucifixion happening on Thursday, the 3 nights prophecy of the sign of Jonah would be satisfied. That would not cause any conflict if there were 2 Sabbaths in a row. At any rate, Jesus is our Passover Lamb. My question is: how and why was Friday selected at some point in the past to be the day recognized as the day of crucifixion?

 

[JonathonofOhio]

Here’s something else to throw into the mix: Jesus did not have to be crucified on a Friday in order for His crucifixion to precede the Sabbath because there could have been two Sabbaths during that week - depending on what day of the week the high feast Feast of Unleavened Bread) fell on. Read Numbers 28: 16-18. Verse 18 clearly indicated that the first day after Passover, Nisan 15, is to be observed as a Sabbath - and so it has been throughout Jewish history. And, in John 19:31, there it is stated that the Sabbath was a high day, or a special Sabbath. Two Sabbath days in a row is very well within the realm of possibility.
With the crucifixion happening on Thursday, the 3 nights prophecy of the sign of Jonah would be satisfied. That would not cause any conflict if there were 2 Sabbaths in a row. At any rate, Jesus is our Passover Lamb. My question is: how and why was Friday selected at some point in the past to be the day recognized as the day of crucifixion?

All the Evangelists state that Jesus died on the day of the Parasceve (Matthew 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:14, 31), and there can be no doubt from Luke 23:54-56 and John 19:31, that this was Friday. But on what day of the month of Nisan did that particular Friday fall? St. John distinctly points to Nisan 14, while the Synoptists, by implying that the Last Supper was the Paschal meal, convey the impression that Jesus was crucified on Nisan 15. But this is hardly reconcilable with the following facts: when Judas left the table, the disciples imagined he was going to buy the things which were needed for the feast (John 13:29)—a purchase which was impossible if the feast had begun; after the Supper, Our Lord and his disciples left the city, as also did the men detailed to arrest Him—this, on Nisan 15, would have been contrary to Exodus 12:22; the next morning the Jews had not yet eaten the Passover; moreover, during that day the Council convened; Simon was apparently coming from work (Luke 23:26); Jesus and the two robbers were executed and were taken down from the crosses; Joseph of Arimathea bought fine linen (Mark 15:46), and Nicodemus brought “a mixture of myrrh and aloes about an hundred pound weight” (John 19:39) for the burial; lastly the women prepared spices for the embalming of the Saviour’s body (Luke 23:55)—all things which would have been a desecration on Nisan 15. Most commentators, whether they think the Last Supper to have been the Paschal meal or an anticipation thereof, hold that Christ, as St. John states, was crucified on the Parasceve of the Pasch, Friday, Nisan 14 (Taken from: newadvent.org/cathen/11476a.htm).

 

[You]

Right, sort of like how they called the period of pregnancy ten months. That answers the three days question, but what about the three nights? Or would a day be counted as a “day and night”, like I speculated?

A day is 24 hours to us and to the ancient jews as well. A 24 hour day includes a period of darkness within it, and depending on ones latitude and the season a night grows longer or shorter or even disappears altogether. He was in the grave for fri, sat & sun. For us westerners that includes our friday night and saturday night but it it might be the jewish thursday when He died but yet our friday. He also experienced a period of darkness in the afternoon when He died when the sky went black. This either could be counted as a period of darkness [night] on the first day, then following that is friday night and then saturday night. Three nights. Three periods of darkness in three days.

 

[You]

edit: He died on fri, the first day, and there was a period of darkness [the first ‘night’, or period of darkness]; then day again and then fri night proper - the second period of darkness; and then sat night the third period of darkness.

 

[Pure_and_Simple]

Yeah, that doesn’t account for the “three nights” part though. It would have been two nights, if we look at it that way.

Please allow me to make one final stab at this with perhaps a bit more clarity this time.
This is what we know with certainty:

1. Jesus prophesied that He would be “3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.”
   (Matthew 12:40)
2. Jesus was crucified on Passover, called Preparation Day. (John 19:31, Luke 23:54,
   Mark 15:42)
3. The Day after Passover/Preparation Day was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened
   Bread and it was a “sacred assembly Sabbath.” (Leviticus 23:4-7, Numbers 28: 16-18,
   John 19:31)
4. Early on the first day of the week, the stone was rolled away. This was Resurrection
   Day. (John 20:1)

So, the question comes down to this: Did the Sabbath Feast Day of Unleavened Bread fall prior to or on the day of the regular Sabbath?

The Sign of Jonah prophecy is fulfilled quite easily with the crucifixion on Passover, the next day being a Feast Day Sabbath, and the next day being the regular Sabbath.

Trying to force “3 nights” out of Friday night and Saturday night requires chronological contortions.

Sadly, I have seen atheists and Muslims use the “2 night discrepancy” to claim that Jesus was neither a true prophet nor was He God.

For me personally though, the important fact is that Jesus died as the Passover Lamb in my place for my sin. Whichever day of the week it was is inconsequential to me.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Please allow me to make one final stab at this with perhaps a bit more clarity this time.
This is what we know with certainty:
…
(Matthew 12:40)

1. Jesus was crucified on Passover, called Preparation Day. (John 19:31, Luke 23:54,
   Mark 15:42)
   …

So, the question comes down to this: Did the Sabbath Feast Day of Unleavened Bread fall prior to or on the day of the regular Sabbath?

The Sign of Jonah prophecy is fulfilled quite easily with the crucifixion on Passover, the next day being a Feast Day Sabbath, and the next day being the regular Sabbath.

Trying to force “3 nights” out of Friday night and Saturday night requires chronological contortions.

Sadly, I have seen atheists and Muslims use the “2 night discrepancy” to claim that Jesus was neither a true prophet nor was He God.

For me personally though, the important fact is that Jesus died as the Passover Lamb in my place for my sin. Whichever day of the week it was is inconsequential to me.

As I point out; scripture uses both expressions; “on” the third day and “after” the third day – both are used of his resurrection in places; Notice also that Jonas did not complete the three day journey through Nineveh either – it was a one day journey; for the people heard the prophecy on the first day of his journey. It was still a three day journey, but Jonas accomplished his task of preaching early; Just so, Jesus descended to the Dead to preach as St. Peter tells us in his epistle; Therefore, completing the task early is part of the sign of Jonah – as is the ultimate destruction of some in the future (the plant withered which shaded Jonah – Nineveh was good for a “day” – but Nineveh would eventually cease to give God pleasure just as the plant did for Jonas.)

What is more curious is that the sign of Jonas is remarked as day and then night – whereas the Jewish reckoning is from evening to day; They count the “beginning” of a day as about 17:00 hours our time. So, Jonas would have needed to be in the belly four nights if the three nights are reckoned separately from the night which belongs to the beginning of the first “day”. As I said, the prophecy of Jonas has ambiguities in it as well – so the new testament writers are not inventing these “discrepancies”, they are in fact part of the prophecy of Jonas.

As to the other certainties you mention … I am not so sure how we know he died at the first passover of the year, do you?; And what I mean is that he might have been ritually unclean (as he was taking our sins on him) at the passover, on account of all those dead souls whom he would save – for when people went up to the feast, Jesus did not go at first:

John 7:10 But after his brethren were gone up, then he also went up to the feast, not openly, but, as it were, in secret.
John 7:11 The Jews therefore sought him on the festival day and said: Where is he?

It does not say immediately after; just “after”.

For this reason, the people could not find him ON THE FESTIVAL DAY – but as the Law of Moses makes clear, there is an excuse for not going to the first passover:

Numbe 9:5 And they made it in its proper time: the fourteenth day of the month at evening, in mount Sinai. The children of Israel did according to all things that the Lord had commanded Moses.
Numbe 9:6 But behold some who were unclean by occasion of the soul of a man, who could not make the phase on that day, coming to Moses and Aaron,
Numbe 9:7 Said to them: We are unclean by occasion of the soul of a man. Why are we kept back that we may not offer in its season the offering to the Lord among the children of Israel?

And God decreed something special for ONLY the un-cleanness of another that a person bears at the time of the first passover. These people were stopped forcibly from making the first passover – however, God decreed that for them:

Numbe 9:11 In the second month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, they shall eat it with unleavened bread and wild lettuce:

A second passover day.

The calendar that the Jews used was a lunar one, and secular histories record an eclipse of the sun in the same year as Jesus’ death. The New Testament writers assert clearly that there was an eclipse of some kind at the moment of Jesus’ death; (The sun is darkened, the moon turned to blood and an earthquake.)

Yet, although a “blood moon” (visible only in lattitudes similar to Jesus’, so California works in the USA, but Alaska doesn’t) is predicted of that time period using NASA software; the time of the first passover would have been incorrect for a solar eclipse (since that passover is reckoned based on the moon – which is opposite the position needed for a solar eclipse.).

The question is, how did the pharisees bind the regulation of Numbers 9:11 at the time of Jesus? For there clearly would be a passover for some who were ceremonially unclean at the first one; but when did the Romans and the Jews agree to it’s allowance?

It seems quite possible that Jesus’ capture was at or after the end of the first passover, and his crucifixion at the secondary celebration; How the second passover was celebrated at the time of Jesus is a historical question that I have never seen anyone take up; so that many things you claim as solidly known – I am unsure of.

The double-date of passover, also, brings up in my mind the question of “why” Judas was thought to have gone out into the night to get some supplies by the other apostles, where such a task would be impossible on the actual passover night according to most opinions I have seen; I can only imagine that Judas was expected to celebrate the passover at a later time.

 

[E_Thrower_II]

Scripture has Jesus telling us that He’d be dead for three days and three nights.

But, doesn’t that contradict what really happened? Jesus died at 3PM on Friday. Jews counted their days from the evening before; Easter Sunday started on what we would consider Saturday night. Jesus could have risen anytime from like 6PM Saturday night till (let’s say) as late as 9 AM Sunday morning. That’s not even two days, much less three days and three nights.

Why is there this discrepancy?

They used a different type of calander than western society. They themselves, I believe, had two types of calendars one Jewish and one for whatever government was in rule. I believe at that time it was Rome.

 

[steve53]

according to one interpretation of Josephus, first, there was the evening Paschal meal, and the next day would be the first day of the Passover- which would start at dusk, and be the fifteenth of Nisan. It was on the second say of the Passover- starting at dusk on the fifteenth, that Jesus held his last supper, and was crucified on the next day, which was still considered to be the second day of Passover, though it was the 16th of Nisan.