Jesus said the goats would be on the left

[livingwordunity]

And today we see many on the left embracing atheism/suppression of Christian public expression of traditional family values and many Catholics on the left openly dissenting against the doctrines and authority of the Pope and bishops of Holy Mother Church. I know we all are guilty of committing personal sins (myself included), but I’m talking more about public actions by a group of people with a shared ideology.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And today we see many on the left embracing atheism/suppression of Christian public expression of traditional family values and many Catholics on the left openly dissenting against the doctrines and authority of the Pope and bishops of Holy Mother Church. Any thoughts?

For one, we could quit trying to politicize Christ, the Gospel, and His Church. Then we need to work on the beam in our eye.

 

[livingwordunity]

I realize that there are some conservative Catholics who have dissented against the teachings of the Catholic Church (the “Traditionalists”), and there are Protestant fundamentalists who strongly disagree with Catholicism. But for the most part they mind their own business, and they don’t do things like disrupt our Masses with protesters or use mass media to continually attack the Church with propaganda the way the left does. The Church spends the most amount of time, money, and effort dealing with attacks from the left.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I realize that there are some conservative Catholics who have dissented against the teachings of the Catholic Church (the “Traditionalists”), and there are Protestant fundamentalists who strongly disagree with Catholicism. But for the most part they mind their own business, and they don’t do things like disrupt our Masses with protesters or use mass media to continually attack the Church with propaganda the way the left does. The Church spends the most amount of time, money, and effort dealing with attacks from the left.

A real solution, would be to seek unification with all in the body of Christ, and quit seeking division. We are none better than the other and need each other to help with our individual weaknesses. Also, we must love in all things. Corrections are easily dismissed when they come from veiled condescension, accusations, or other acts that lack the charity required of all believers. If we don’t have love in all things and we push people further away with our actions, we are complicit in the problem and could be held accountable to the only one that has a right to judge us all.

 

[livingwordunity]

A real solution, would be to seek unification with all in the body of Christ, and quit seeking division. We are none better than the other and need each other to help with our individual weaknesses. Also, we must love in all things. Corrections are easily dismissed when they come from veiled condescension, accusations, or other acts that lack the charity required of all believers. If we don’t have love in all things and we push people further away with our actions, we are complicit in the problem and could be held accountable to the only one that has a right to judge us all.

Jesus also said that his truth would cause division.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jesus also said that his truth would cause division.

Please share with us where Christ taught men to promote division. A problem will be how are we to do that without judging one another?

Christ created a body, which is His Church. He taught of losing just one sheep. Yet, we have people today who would push away, because of their own opinions and political views. We need think of the Pharisees and what Christ said to them when they thought they were pious and righteous above all others…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Jesus also said that his truth would cause division.

Please share with us where Christ taught men to promote division. A problem will be how are we to do that without judging one another? We are not Christ.

Christ created a body, which is His Church. He taught of losing just one sheep. Yet, we have people today who would push away, because of their own opinions and political views. We need think of the Pharisees and what Christ said to them when they thought they were pious and righteous above all others…

 

[didymus]

I’ve always wondered, what’s wrong with goats?
Sheep and goats are both kosher. Sheep are cute but stupid; goats are ornery but does that make them a symbol of evil?

 

[ProVobis]

For one, we could quit trying to politicize Christ, the Gospel, and His Church. Then we need to work on the beam in our eye.

Tough not to.

FWIW, the Latin for “left” is sinister. Thus the political ramifications.

 

[Rence]

I’ve always wondered, what’s wrong with goats?
Sheep and goats are both kosher. Sheep are cute but stupid; goats are ornery but does that make them a symbol of evil?

I love my goats. I’ve never really liked sheep. So… ?

 

[LisaA]

Please share with us where Christ taught men to promote division. A problem will be how are we to do that without judging one another? We are not Christ.

Christ created a body, which is His Church. He taught of losing just one sheep. Yet, we have people today who would push away, because of their own opinions and political views. We need think of the Pharisees and what Christ said to them when they thought they were pious and righteous above all others…

You need to differentiate between judging behavior and judging the state of another’s soul. We CAN and we SHOULD judge behavior. I have no problem in judging harshly the actions of the Connecticut shooter. I have my doubts about his current location but I would not presume to judge the state of his soul…THAT is what’s up to Christ. I get really tired of hearing that was are not supposed to judge anyone…really? You suggest that we embrace total chaos and anarchism and violence?

As to ‘pushing away’ people, everyone is to be accepted in love but again we do not have to love their behavior, their heresies, their hateful words against the Church. The Pharisees focused on procedure above all and that is what Christ condemned. What was portrayed on the outside did not comport with the inside in their case. I would love to see a lost sheep like Obama have a change of heart and work as hard to protect unborn life as he worked to be re-elected. OTOH I won’t look the other way and ignore his anti-life speeches and legislation in the interest of “peace” among the flock.

As to the differentiation between goats and sheep, having grown up on a farm, I wonder if the analogy is reflective of goats’ very independent, know it all streak whereas sheep tend to comply and follow a leader (shepherd). Also goatlike figures have been used to portray the devil. That also being said, I enjoy actual (vs human) goats!

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

Please share with us where Christ taught men to promote division.

Matthew Chapter 10

32 So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven;
33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

A problem will be how are we to do that without judging one another?

“Thus you will know them by their fruits.”- Matt. 7:20

Christ created a body, which is His Church. He taught of losing just one sheep. Yet, we have people today who would push away, because of their own opinions and political views. We need think of the Pharisees and what Christ said to them when they thought they were pious and righteous above all others…

I never said that I am pious and righteous above all others. I made it clear in the OP that what I’m talking about is public actions by a group of people.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Matthew Chapter 10

32 So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven;
33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household.
37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

“Thus you will know them by their fruits.”- Matt. 7:20I never said that I am pious and righteous above all others.

Show me the specific instructions where Christ tells us, who are all sinners, to separate others?

What you’ve shown states the Lord will separate.

 

[livingwordunity]

Show me the specific instructions where Christ tells us, who are all sinners, to separate others?

What you’ve shown states the Lord will separate.

Actually, the Church has something called excommunication where one can separate themselves by an act of serious disobedience.

 

[liquidayno]

I recently was welcomed into the Catholic Church. Part of why I left the Protestant world was that I figured that Catholics wouldn’t just be nutty right-wingers mingling Jesus and politics so crudely…

…after being on this forum for a bit I guess I was TOTALLY wrong on that point. There seems to be just as many Catholics who mingle politics and religion, rather than subjecting thier politics to Christ.

That is frankly very disappointing. I guess I was naive to think that Catholics would differ from Protestants in relation to politics . Bummer.

 

[livingwordunity]

I recently was welcomed into the Catholic Church. Part of why I left the Protestant world was that I figured that Catholics wouldn’t just be nutty right-wingers mingling Jesus and politics so crudely…

…after being on this forum for a bit I guess I was TOTALLY wrong on that point. That are just as many Catholics who mingle politics and religion, rather than subjecting thier politics to Christ.

That is frankly very disappointing. I guess I was naive to think that Catholics would differ from Protestants in relation to politics .

Everyone who lives in the world is involved with politics in one way or another. But can you tell me what I said that is not the truth?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Actually, the Church has something called excommunication where one can separate themselves by an act of serious disobedience.

You presented a passage of scriptures, and I asked for the specific instructions from Christ for us, who are all sinners, to separate others from us. Now you bring up where one can separate themselves, through the authoritative men of the Church and not the parishioners, in a serious act of serious disobedience which results in excommunication. Does that excommunication prevent that person from attending the Catholic Church, or does the Church encourage that person to continue coming to the place where they can find correction?

Is there nothing that teaches us to take actions in an attempt to separate others from the body of Christ?

 

[livingwordunity]

You presented a passage of scriptures, and I asked for the specific instructions from Christ for us, who are all sinners, to separate others from us. Now you bring up where one can separate themselves, through the authoritative men of the Church and not the parishioners, in a serious act of serious disobedience which results in excommunication. Does that excommunication prevent that person from attending the Catholic Church, or does the Church encourage that person to continue coming to the place where they can find correction?

Is there nothing that teaches us to take actions in an attempt to separate others from the body of Christ?

I never said that I have the authority to excommunicate anyone.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I never said that I have the authority to excommunicate anyone.

I asked for teachings of Christ for us to separate others from ourselves. You provided a passage of scriptures, which I thought indicated you believed it was taught. So I requested specific instructions for us to divide, since the passage you provided was about the divisions Christ brought through His Gospel. You responded about excommunications, and it was clear it was something brought on through an individual’s own actions, and the authority of the men of the Church.

I am only trying to show you, I feel, you’re wrong in promoting divisions. The Church teaches us to hate the sin, but love the sinner. When we push people away, with less than love, it can cause a determined separation. Even though they might be mistaken, if we are the cause of that separation, we place ourselves in a position of being accountable when we stand before the judge.

To be perfectly honest, the title of this thread and the first post seems to be politicizing, with an intent to divide. As I said earlier, we cannot correct that we push away.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
Forgive us our trespasses, AS WE FORGIVE THOSE THAT TRESPASS AGAINST US.
Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Sins against the Church, are sins against us. Christ taught us how to pray, and it teaches us a lot. Christ doesn’t need us to protect Him. We need Him to protect us, and He promised to be with us until the consummation of the world.

 

[Gorgias]

And today we see many on the left embracing atheism/suppression of Christian public expression of traditional family values and many Catholics on the left openly dissenting against the doctrines and authority of the Pope and bishops of Holy Mother Church. …I’m talking more about public actions by a group of people with a shared ideology.

Umm… the notion of the “left” as liberals is an Anglo/American construct. Trying to appropriate Scripture to justify an American political analysis, especially one that excoriates one political constituency, is not only an abuse of Scripture, but IMHO rather reprehensible…