Jesus said the goats would be on the left

[Prodigal_Son1]

You must understand, Lisa, that liberalism will always uphold phony love, sweet words and a compromising tone with sin instead of the uncompromising nature of God’s truth, and further, we will always be accused of not loving our neighbor if we are not politically correct. Somehow many simply do not recognize that the highest form of charity is correction and that if we neglect to admonish the sinner it is the opposite of love.

Amazing! How do you see in another person’s heart to determine they are ‘phony?’

 

[livingwordunity]

Amazing! How do you see in another person’s heart to determine they are ‘phony?’

We don’t need to judge a person’s heart to determine where they currently stand when they offer us their actions and words and the results thereof. “Thus you will know them by their fruits.”- Matt. 7:20

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We don’t need to judge a person’s heart to determine where they currently stand when they offer us their actions and words. “Thus you will know them by their fruits.”- Matt. 7:20

We’re talking about an expression of love. How can you see a ‘phony’ love?

 

[livingwordunity]

We’re talking about an expression of love. How can you see a ‘phony’ love?

“Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way. In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions, the word “love” is abused and distorted, to the point where it comes to mean the opposite. Truth frees charity from the constraints of an emotionalism that deprives it of relational and social content, and of a fideism that deprives it of human and universal breathing-space. In the truth, charity reflects the personal yet public dimension of faith in the God of the Bible, who is both Agápe and Lógos: Charity and Truth, Love and Word.” - Caritas in Veritate

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

“Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality. Love becomes an empty shell, to be filled in an arbitrary way. In a culture without truth, this is the fatal risk facing love. It falls prey to contingent subjective emotions and opinions, the word “love” is abused and distorted, to the point where it comes to mean the opposite. Truth frees charity from the constraints of an emotionalism that deprives it of relational and social content, and of a fideism that deprives it of human and universal breathing-space. In the truth, charity reflects the personal yet public dimension of faith in the God of the Bible, who is both Agápe and Lógos: Charity and Truth, Love and Word.” - Caritas in Veritate

I still fail to see how it tells one person another person is expressing a ‘phony’ love. Christ said love one another as He loved us, and to love our enemies, leaving no one outside that circle of love. What you’ve provided is a ‘teaching’ to each of us, but falls short of telling us how to know another person’s heart and whether they are expressing a phony love or not. If anything it seems to warn against ‘charity degenerating’ into sentimentality. I see politicizing among Christians to be such sentimentality and subjective emotions. Wouldn’t castigating others with justifications be a love that is abused and distorted?

 

[LisaA]

I still fail to see how it tells one person another person is expressing a ‘phony’ love. Christ said love one another as He loved us, and to love our enemies, leaving no one outside that circle of love. What you’ve provided is a ‘teaching’ to each of us, but falls short of telling us how to know another person’s heart and whether they are expressing a phony love or not. If anything it seems to warn against ‘charity degenerating’ into sentimentality. I see politicizing among Christians to be such sentimentality and subjective emotions. Wouldn’t castigating others with justifications be a love that is abused and distorted?

You seem to pick and choose among Christ’s words that would appear to support your position…a sort of Beatle-esque view that “all you need is love…” Yet you ignore very clear teachings about living the Truth which includes facing the reality of evil and destruction and how we are to respond.

If we cannot see another’s heart or soul, we can see their actions and we can hear their words and make judgements accordingly. “Phony love” is not that difficult to detect if the actions contradict the words.

Why don’t you provide an example of what you speak. Your statements are overly broad generalizations that don’t really provide any insight into your theories.

Lisa

 

[livingwordunity]

I still fail to see how it tells one person another person is expressing a ‘phony’ love. Christ said love one another as He loved us, and to love our enemies, leaving no one outside that circle of love. What you’ve provided is a ‘teaching’ to each of us, but falls short of telling us how to know another person’s heart and whether they are expressing a phony love or not. If anything it seems to warn against ‘charity degenerating’ into sentimentality. I see politicizing among Christians to be such sentimentality and subjective emotions. Wouldn’t castigating others with justifications be a love that is abused and distorted?

Christ loves us with truth. What did I say that is not the truth?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You seem to pick and choose among Christ’s words that would appear to support your position…a sort of Beatle-esque view that “all you need is love…” Yet you ignore very clear teachings about living the Truth which includes facing the reality of evil and destruction and how we are to respond.

If we cannot see another’s heart or soul, we can see their actions and we can hear their words and make judgements accordingly. “Phony love” is not that difficult to detect if the actions contradict the words.

Why don’t you provide an example of what you speak. Your statements are overly broad generalizations that don’t really provide any insight into your theories.

Lisa

The teaching is something that we learn and apply to ourselves. It’s not a teaching, where one can know what’s in another person’s heart.

With that said, tell me which would be an example of the love of Christ working through the person.

A person sins publicly, and it’s recognizable.

(A)One person tells that person to continue coming to Church and seek God’s forgiveness, mercy and love, while offering explanations with compassion.

(B)The other person says, ‘they’re a sinner, and not really Catholic.They’re just hurting the Church. They’re on the left with their sins, and Jesus said the goats would be on the left.’’

 

[livingwordunity]

The teaching is something that we learn and apply to ourselves. It’s not a teaching, where one can know what’s in another person’s heart.

With that said, tell me which would be an example of the love of Christ working through the person.

A person sins publicly, and it’s recognizable.

(A)One person tells that person to continue coming to Church and seek God’s forgiveness, mercy and love, while offering explanations with compassion.

(B)The other person says, ‘they’re a sinner, and not really Catholic.They’re just hurting the Church. They’re on the left with their sins, and Jesus said the goats would be on the left.’’

You are trying to separate truth from love and creating a false “either/or” choice.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Christ loves us with truth. What did I say that is not the truth?

I just wonder about what seems to be generalized assumptions, and what their purposes are in sharing the ‘love’.

So I wonder if it’s just a coincidence that, for the most part, the political left seems so godless and hostile to Christianity. Has anyone else wondered about this especially with the seemingly endless attacks on Christianity by the left?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You are trying to separate truth from love and creating a false “either/or” choice.

His Truth is Love and there is no separating them. He loves us unconditionally.

I’ve only tried to provide a little food for thought. Pray, reflect, and follow your conscience, and pray some more.

I’m unsubscribing.

 

[livingwordunity]

I just wonder about what seems to be generalized assumptions, and what their purposes are in sharing the ‘love’.

I didn’t condemn anyone to Hell. I only said how things are at the moment. So how is that being mean?

 

[livingwordunity]

His Truth is Love and there is no separating them. He loves us unconditionally.

I’ve only tried to provide a little food for thought. Pray, reflect, and follow your conscience, and pray some more.

You say that as if I’m talking about humble people who acknowledge their sins when the ones I describe in the OP are proud and righteous in their own eyes. If someone doesn’t fit the description of proud and righteous in their own eyes then this thread is not about them. And you are at least as judging of the right as I am of the left.

 

[Gorgias]

I know that when Jesus said the goats would be on the left he was talking about at the end of time when he judges the world. But who’s to say that what happens at the end of time isn’t already taking shape? Please tell me where the Magisterium has said that we absolutely can’t apply what Jesus said about the goats on the left to those of today

really? is that all it will take to bring this line of thought to an end? ok…easy enough!

Look in the catechism, where it discusses the sheep/goats story. There, we’re in the context of the final judgment. This necessarily implies that all have already been judged, in the particular judgment. Following me so far? Good. If all have been judged, then this means that none have any chance of repentance - with whatever judgment each has been judged, there is finality. Therefore, when Jesus separates them, sheep and goats, left and right, that’s where they stay. However, in the context of our lives here and now, the political characterizations “left” and “right” are nothing if not mutable. In other words, there’s no way to make a post-judgment parable fit a pre-judgment life. in other words, even if this eisegesis weren’t already silly, by virtue of its attempts to conflate third-millennium American political affiliation with first-century Christian eschatological revelation, it would fail on purely theological grounds…!

American politics is recognized by the entire world because America is arguably the most powerful nation on earth, so whatever happens in America effects the rest of the world.

Today? Maybe; but even there, there’s room for debate on your assertion. To take your claim, and then try to make it fit in the context of first-century Christian thought, let alone the wider context of divine revelation in general? Ludicrous…

And that’s why American politics and America’s concept of political left and right trumps any other concept of a political left or right in today’s modern world.

That might play well in the continental U.S., but take that thought across the border - anywhere across the border - and you’ll get laughed out of any discussion.

 

[Tigg]

Amazing! How do you see in another person’s heart to determine they are ‘phony?’

You simply are not following the point. I am disputing your claim that love alone (as emotion and sentiment - didn’t you call it the “love center”) can convert a sinner without proclaiming the truth to them. Yes, Christ did it because He is the reader of hearts and touched the totality of the soul by His very Presence. We, on the other hand, are not capable of this.

We’re talking about an expression of love. How can you see a ‘phony’ love?

A phony love is when sugar-coated phrases are used when communicating with sinners which disguises the nature of the sin one sees committed before their very eyes or when they hear the error with their ears which contradicts God’s truth, yet, out of a misplaced charity a pat on the back is given so as not to hurt feelings or turn others away. It is **NOT **charity to overlook that which can condemn a soul. Seems to me you throw the word “love” around and accuse others of rash judgment. I once read that the Greek derivative of love can actually mean lust, or self-craving, whereas charity denotes a giving of love. How do we really love? By wanting the very best for another, or the desire that they work out their salvation.

 

[Faithdancer]

And today we see many on the left embracing atheism/suppression of Christian public expression of traditional family values and many Catholics on the left openly dissenting against the doctrines and authority of the Pope and bishops of Holy Mother Church. I know we all are guilty of committing personal sins (myself included), but I’m talking more about public actions by a group of people with a shared ideology.

Amen, lwu. Faithful Roman Catholics are required to obey the Magisterium. More hand holding during the Pater Noster does nothing to address the political trend in America which is against Church, marriage, and family. In response to the militancy of the atheist/Marxists, who currently advance same sex “marriage” as one their “causes” in their relentless attack on America, it is time for Catholics to organize, to become politically militant, and to fight back in turn.

The heterodox, lukewarm Catholics can take a hike on over to the Unitarian/Universalist church for all I care. If the Catholic Church shrinks in size but grows in orthodoxy and anti-socialist activism, I’m down with that.

 

[Faithdancer]

"We in the West are already half-way through a Trotskyist Revolution, which is shattering our family life. Stalinism fell, but the West is in the grip of Trotskyists promoting open borders, Gay Marriage, etc: xTrots.html.

Most of the writers presented here are Trotskyists, condemning Stalin’s crackdown on sodomy and his tightening of the marriage laws. One must sift out their “spin” from the historical data they provide. If they do not mention Stalin by name, they insinuate him by referring to “bureaucracy”. Thought control was introduced to the USSR by Lenin and Trotsky; because of it, one often had to use indirect means of conveying information, but one can read Newspeak if one has the right dictionary.

Why destroy the family? Karl Kautsky explains, “communism … tries to convert its community into a new family, for the presence of the traditional family tie is felt as a disturbing influence”: marxists.org/archive/kautsky/works/1900s/christ/ (Book Four, Part I). The whole society is to be one big family, with communal husbands & wives."

from mailstar.net/sex-soviet.html

 

[AnneElizabeth]

And today we see many on the left embracing atheism/suppression of Christian public expression of traditional family values and many Catholics on the left openly dissenting against the doctrines and authority of the Pope and bishops of Holy Mother Church. I know we all are guilty of committing personal sins (myself included), but I’m talking more about public actions by a group of people with a shared ideology.

Goats on Christ’s left was not a political statement about the ‘left’ political side we see today. Rather, I would study what it is like to tend to goats and sheep and be a shepherd. You might gain more helpful insight as to what Christ meant by that statement.

 

[Faithdancer]

Goats on Christ’s left was not a political statement about the ‘left’ political side we see today. Rather, I would study what it is like to tend to goats and sheep and be a shepherd. You might gain more helpful insight as to what Christ meant by that statement.

I think the OP is most likely aware of the meaning of the Biblical passage, and is simply pointing out the coincidence that in the current socio-political environment, it is those on the radical left who seek the destruction of traditional Catholic values including marriage and the family, and the transformation of America into a secularist/atheist, socialist state.

 

[Faithdancer]

You simply are not following the point. I am disputing your claim that love alone (as emotion and sentiment - didn’t you call it the “love center”) can convert a sinner without proclaiming the truth to them. Yes, Christ did it because He is the reader of hearts and touched the totality of the soul by His very Presence. We, on the other hand, are not capable of this.

A phony love is when sugar-coated phrases are used when communicating with sinners which disguises the nature of the sin one sees committed before their very eyes or when they hear the error with their ears which contradicts God’s truth, yet, out of a misplaced charity a pat on the back is given so as not to hurt feelings or turn others away. It is **NOT **charity to overlook that which can condemn a soul. Seems to me you throw the word “love” around and accuse others of rash judgment. I once read that the Greek derivative of love can actually mean lust, or self-craving, whereas charity denotes a giving of love. How do we really love? By wanting the very best for another, or the desire that they work out their salvation.

Right on, Ms. Tigg. Unfortunately he’s already thrown in the towel, and can’t respond.