Jesus saved us from what exactly?

[aragonsr]

I have been Catholic my whole life and I can’t seem to find a very accurate answer to this. Usually people beat around the bush because they don’t know. I searched the forum and couldn’t really come up with an answer to my questions exactly either.

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
2. If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
3. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
4. If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
5. Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)

Short, concise, and logical statements please. No stories.

Thanks for your help.
-Todd

 

[Mike30]

He made it possible that you can be saved. That is about as concise and straightforward as it can be stated.

Everything else you asked falls under that one statement.

I know that you are looking for something meatier than what I said but that is really about it.

He made it possible. It’s entirely up to you if you choose to take it.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Jesus saved us from what exactly?
From a state of irreconcilement with God. (cf, CCC#457 The Word became flesh for us in order to save us by reconciling us with God…)

1) Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
Yes (cf. CCC#1701 It is in Christ, Redeemer and Savior, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty…)

2) If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
Because we are not completely independent of Christ, we are members of his body (e.g. Eph. 1:22-23), participants in the very suffering which wrought victory over original sin. We can escape the eternal consequences. The temporal consequences remain. Suffering and death itself takes on “new meaning.” Christ transformed these effects of original sin into the very participation in his victory. (cf. CCC#1521 Union with the passion of Christ. By the grace of this sacrament the sick person receives the strength and the gift of uniting himself more closely to Christ’s Passion: in a certain way he is consecrated to bear fruit by configuration to the Savior’s redemptive Passion. Suffering, a consequence of original sin, acquires a new meaning; it becomes a participation in the saving work of Jesus.)

3) Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
Yes. (cf. CCC#1846-1855)

4) If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
Same answer as #2.

5) Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)
I would presume it depends on the context of who is speaking it, but I think normatively “sin of the world” refers to committed sins, not original sin which is contracted.

 

[Starrsmother]

Jesus saved us from the resulting punishment for humanity falling into original sin. After Adam and Eve committed original sin, when a person died–even great and holy figures like Abraham or King David or the holiest man alive back then–they did not go to heaven. Instead, according to scripture, they were held in what is called “the bosom of Abraham”. This was once described to me as like a holding cell or perhaps similar to purgatory—the truth is that nobody knows what this place they were held was like–but it was not heaven and not with God–though apparently, it also was not like hell where souls are pretty much in a suffering and torture of some type.

If Jesus had not come to earth, died for our sins and had not been resurrected from the dead, then this is exactly what each of us today would have to anticipate would occur to us when we die–and no more! We would go somewhere away from God and would simply “exist” there for all eternity This would also be exactly what had happened to our grandparents and what would happen to our kids and grand kids–no matter how good we had been while alive. To me, that isn’t a lot to look forward to! We would never see God, never be with Him and the angels–nothing.

When Jesus died on the cross to save us however, He made amends–made up for, if you will–to the Father for man’s disobedience and sin. He wiped the slate clean for us. Thus, when you or I die now days, we can have hope that if we have lived our lives right that we will immediately be with God in heaven. If we still have sins on our soul at death that aren’t totally atoned for–we will do some time in purgatory first–but still ultimately one day we will be in heaven with God! Now that IS something to look forward to–and it was bought at a terribly high price.

The newest information on the Shroud of Turin–which apparently is more and more looking like the real thing–not a fake at all, shows a body that had over 160 deep cut marks from being beaten with a hard object of some type. It shows gashes from what could be a crown of thorns (not thistles) all over the scalp and forehead areas. It shows evidence of a broken nose, several fractured facial bones, and a gash on the left side similar to a sword wound–not to even mention nail holes in the wrists and feet! As a TV moderator said on a fairly recent Discovery Chanel documentary about the Shroud–and the man was not a believer–“Whomever the Romans killed and who was buried in this shroud was savagely tortured and beaten to the very brink of death–before being ultimately killed in the most savage, painful and horrendous manner that civilized humans could possibly dream up!” THAT was the price that Jesus paid for us–so that we could one day be in heaven with Him! AND, to me it’s worth noting that He was in heaven ALREADY–so why should He care that much, to suffer all He did, just to allow us to share in something that He already had? To me, such a love is unfathomable–but He did love us just that much!

So basically what Jesus saved us from–all of us who ever were born in the past, who live now, or who will ever live in the future up until the last day–was an eternal void of nothingness and separation from God. He opened the doors of heaven again so that we have the opportunity to enter one day! Prior to Jesus’ offering Himself as a sacrifice on the cross in atonement for all the sins of mankind, God, our heavenly Father had shut, bolted and pad-locked the entrance to heaven to us–and mankind was pretty much screwed–just to use plain language!!!

 

[Veridical16]

I have been Catholic my whole life and I can’t seem to find a very accurate answer to this.** Usually people beat around the bush because they don’t know. I searched the forum and couldn’t really come up with an answer to my questions exactly either.**

Here are two talks by Bishop Fulton Sheen, that address your question if you have the time to listen further.
"Original Sin & the Angels"
bishopsheen.excerptsofinri.com/audio/Life_is_Worth_Living/Original-Sin-and-the-Angels.mp3
"Original Sin"
bishopsheen.excerptsofinri.com/audio/Life_is_Worth_Living/Original-Sin.mp3
Starrsmother & Marco did a good job citing the Catechism, I’ll try to add on to help as well.

1) Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
Yes, our first parents, finite creatures offended the Infinite God. It took the infinite God to rectify that sin, by becoming a man to take our place of punishment in order to temper his justice against our original offense. This first sin being connected to our very nature cut us off from supernatural Grace in the flesh, we had no more life in us, but for God so loved us…in his mercy he sent his only son, the Lamb of God. This is prefigured in the Old Testament. The Jews were to offer animal sacrifices for their sins – none of that was sufficient for addressing original sin. (They were finite sacrifices. ) nor was the supernatural grace from Heaven available until the coming of the Messiah, his passion at Calvary, and Pentecost. The Mass is* the only sacrifice* that can infinitely appease the infinite God. This is the same sacrifice that happened 2000 years ago, re-presented every Sunday.
Those without supernatural faith, will not understand and have a negative twist on the sacrifice, as something of a God demanding punishment from his subjects through the brutal death of his son, rather than a God who so loved us demonstrated that love by pouring out of His life for his friends, revealed by the words of the True God himself.

this is in the greek word, “Kenosis”
**
2) If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)**
We are not made like the angels, we are both body and spirit. We are redeemed but we are not walking with God as it was in the garden. People ask, 'but if he could make the Blessed Mother immaculate? Why couldn’t he just allow us to be born immaculate? ’ Immaculate or not, our wills would be imperfect the same way Adam and Eve were easily tempted to oppose God. The offense would happen all over again for that individual. The Blessed Mother’s will was perfect, that is why there is a mystery to the Immaculate, as God foreknowing every soul to come into existence saw Mary before the fall. Why we still suffer and die on Earth, relates to another example is “no one is greater than his master” hence we may still suffer and die.
The work at Calvary brings about contemplation of the salvific mystery in regard to our suffering on Earth as Marco post answered.

3) Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
Yes. this gives life to the Sacraments in the Church.

4) If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth? Depending on our wills, nothing impure will enter heaven. We may not always do what we* ought to do* in conformity with His will. Venial sins, imperfections and blemishes that will not be allowed in Heaven. The lives of the Saints are examples of reparation for sins. Some avoided purgatory, they suffered much on Earth or offered their lives in reparation for others. The Effects of sin still remain even if the Father has forgiven the child; hence reparation. St Paul talks about this as our sufferings are united with the lone sacrifice at Calvary.

5) Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)

Sin in general is probably the concept that suffices. Sin being: offenses against God. The “Lamb of God who saves us” from “offending God”. We are able to please God now, because of Christ’s work at Calvalry, with Christ’s life in us , through belief in the Cross and the Sacramental life of the Church. We may be allowed in Heaven, because God cannot refuse his son, the face of God, should we die in the state of Grace.

That’s the best I can do. Hope that helps in addition to the answers above. #2 is the tougher one to answer; Look up Blessed John Scotus.

 

[petra22]

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
2. If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
3. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
4. If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?

Short, concise, and logical statements please. No stories.

Thanks for your help.
-Todd

The gates of heaven were closed when Adam and Eve sinned. Jesus opened up the gates of Heaven for us. That doesn’t take away the results of the sin to which we are all born. We each, having free will, have to work out our own salvation in Christ Jesus. We are all sinners and Christ’s sacrifice paid for our sins, but we still commit them with our free will that the Father gave us and won’t take back. Out of righteousness, at the end of our lives justice demands that we as individuals give an account of our deeds and rid our souls of the stain of sin. Jesus helps us with this, otherwise we would never be adopted into the presence of the holy, pure God. We will willingly choose to suffer in purgatory to “get cleaned up,” to be able to see God “face to face.” Which would not be possible if Jesus had not become the lamb of God. IMHO!

 

[Rich_C]

I have been Catholic my whole life and I can’t seem to find a very accurate answer to this. Usually people beat around the bush because they don’t know. I searched the forum and couldn’t really come up with an answer to my questions exactly either.

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
2. If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
3. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
4. If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
5. Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)

Short, concise, and logical statements please. No stories.

Thanks for your help.
-Todd

1. Yes.
2. His Sacrifice is only applied to us at baptism, but it does not repair our fallen nature, it just allows us the possibility of Heaven.
3. Yes.
4. Sin has spiritual and worldly consequences–Christ paid for the former but we have to pay for the latter, either on earth or in Purgatory.
5. The sin of the world is original sin, plus our personal sins.

 

[aragonsr]

1. Yes.
2. His Sacrifice is only applied to us at baptism, but it does not repair our fallen naturein the worldly it just allows us the possibility of Heaven.
3. Yes.
4. Sin has spiritual and worldly consequences–Christ paid for the former but we have to pay for the latter, either on earth or in Purgatory.
5. The sin of the world is original sin, plus our personal sins.

Thank you everyone! This has helped a ton!

So, if sin has spiritual and worldly consequences…

1. What are the spiritual and worldly consequences of original sin?
2. From what I understand, baptism washes away the stain of original sin. This sounds like purgatory in a way. What exactly does baptism do for us, in the context of the payment of sin?
3. Do we still have to pay for the worldly consequences of original sin? Is “suffering and death” how we pay for this sin in the worldly way?

Thank you!
-Todd

 

[fisherman_carl]

Thank you everyone! This has helped a ton!

So, if sin has spiritual and worldly consequences…

1. What are the spiritual and worldly consequences of original sin?
2. From what I understand, baptism washes away the stain of original sin. This sounds like purgatory in a way. What exactly does baptism do for us, in the context of the payment of sin?
3. Do we still have to pay for the worldly consequences of original sin? Is “suffering and death” how we pay for this sin in the worldly way?

Thank you!
-Todd

1. Death (spiritual and physical) , labor pains, hard labor in the fields, concupiscence, generational sin, etc…
2. Baptism is where we are forgiven of all our sins including original sin and all punishment for sin (both eternal and temporal) are remitted. Jesus paid the debt of our sins on the cross. Through faith and baptism we receive the benefit of this sacrifice on our behalf. Baptism involves the Holy Spirit where the name of the Holy Trinity is invoked and water is involved symbolizing the action of the Holy Spirit cleansing them of their sins.
3. In baptism we are forgiven, but salvation is not fully complete until Jesus returns and our bodies are Resurrected. At that time death will be conquered which is the last effect of sin and we will be fully restored to God.

“When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
¶“O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?”
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

1 Cor 15:55-58

 

[fisherman_carl]

1. We don’t have to pay for effects of original sin in terms of punishment if we were baptized. But there are still effects of original sin. For instance we still have concupiscence or tendency to sin. An example, alcoholism often runs in families. What we do has real effects on others. You can’t just erase those effects.

 

[Aloysium]

Considering one’s personal existence and that of all mankind throughout history and clearly in the present, undeniable is the reality of evil, whether in the forms of pain and death or sin.

We suffer, if not, will suffer, and we will die. This truth has to be dealt with.

Modern secular society offers as a solution, what seems basically to be avoidance.
One reduces the pain, prolongs or hastens death depending on the circumstances, gives in to desire and pretends guilt does not truly exist.
Laws exist to maintain order and avoid chaos. I’m O.K, you’re O.K. Everything is good; if you don’t feel it is, well, there are counsellors and medications that can fix that.
It doesn’t work, but it does keep you busy and not really thinking about bad “subjective” stuff.

There is the Eastern approach which sees the problem as desire and finds the answer in reduced expectations and stoical acceptance.
If you can rise beyond desire, what is pain but another sensation. Following the Path, one can attain Nirvana.
This is very hard to do; people generally get all upset about even having to forgo autoeroticism.

The Catholic understanding, I believe is well described in the posts above.

Is “suffering and death” how we pay for this sin in the worldly way?

There is another way to look at this as reflected in Matt 5:3-12
Blessed are:

• the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
• they who mourn: for they shall be comforted.
• they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill.
• the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
• the pure of heart: for they shall see God.
• the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
• they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
• you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Without suffering, there would be no courage, no helping one another, no patience, no gratitude even.

However you understand the mystery of suffering, the truth is that He is always by your side, sharing with you the pain and giving it meaning.

 

[CrossofChrist]

I have been Catholic my whole life and I can’t seem to find a very accurate answer to this. Usually people beat around the bush because they don’t know. I searched the forum and couldn’t really come up with an answer to my questions exactly either.

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
2. If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
3. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
4. If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
5. Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)

Short, concise, and logical statements please. No stories.

Thanks for your help.
-Todd

1. Pay? Jesus substituted himself for us on the holy Cross. He “paid the price” for our sins, which is eternal death.
2. He didn’t undo original sin. He gave us a way out of the eternal consequences of it. We still have to deal with the temporal effects and with concupiscence.
3. Yep.
4. Because our love is imperfect. There’s tons of stuff on this online if you look a little harder. And we aren’t necessarily “paying” for them in purgatory; Christ did that on the Cross. We’re suffering the effects of our sins.

And yes, here comes a story/analogy: imagine this great guy saved you from imminent death on a battle field in a war that you yourself made really deadly. You got saved from getting annihilated, but that doesn’t stop the fact that you now have PTSD from the war. But now this great guy says, “Hey, I’ll help you get better. All you’ve got to do is cooperate with me.”

Basically the same thing with sin. It has lasting effects that aren’t sin in the proper sense that need to be taken care of to be able to participate in the Divine Trinity in Heaven.

1. All sin.

 

[aragonsr]

Thank you everyone! It makes so much more sense now!

Excellent war analogy. Even though I said no stories.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

If Jesus never came then where Abraham ended up by faith seems OK (akin to an eternal natural paradise or at least a place of peace?) even if it isn’t comparable to Heaven.
What bad things was it that Jesus would have saved Abraham from?

Any thoughts?
I don’t really go along with the sort of “theology” that might say that even Abraham only attained to where he got to by the anticipated merits of Christ’s death. Sounds just a bit too revisionist-after-the-event as it were.

 

[CrossofChrist]

If Jesus never came then where Abraham ended up by faith seems OK (akin to an eternal natural paradise or at least a place of peace?) even if it isn’t comparable to Heaven.
What bad things was it that Jesus would have saved Abraham from?

Any thoughts?
I don’t really go along with the sort of “theology” that might say that even Abraham only attained to where he got to by the anticipated merits of Christ’s death. Sounds just a bit too revisionist-after-the-event as it were.

If you don’t “go along with that sort of “theology”” then do you believe in the Immaculate Conception?

 

[Lion_Heart]

I have been Catholic my whole life and I can’t seem to find a very accurate answer to this. Usually people beat around the bush because they don’t know. I searched the forum and couldn’t really come up with an answer to my questions exactly either.

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
2. If he did, why are we still in a fallen state? (suffer and die?)
3. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sin?
4. If #2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
5. Is the phrase “sin of the world” also referred to as “original sin” or is this referring to all sin? (He saved us from the sin of the world. Or maybe it’s “sins of the world”. I’m not really sure.)

Short, concise, and logical statements please. No stories.

Thanks for your help.
-Todd

Greetings in Christ,

1. Did Jesus pay for the original sin?
   Yes, Jesus did pay for the original sin.
2. If He did, why are we still in a fallen state? (Suffer and die?)
   We are not totally in a fallen state.
   At our conversion, “God raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” (Eph.2:6)

Quote: “AUGUSTINE’S CONTRIBUTION TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.
We are inserted into the Body of Christ by our baptism and become members united to the Head, so that while our feet may be on earth we are already in heaven.” End quote.
The above quote taken from a letter of Paul Maloney OSA Written September 19th 2012
Here in earth we are Christ’s ambassadors. (2 Cor.5:20)

Why then do we are suffer and die?
We are SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY. – 1Thess.5:23.
2 Cor.4:16 “Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our OUTWARD MAN (BODY) is perishing, yet the INWARD MAN (SPIRIT & SOUL) is being renewed day by day.” (In the bracket and emphasis mine.)

The salvation of our INNER MAN is a past event, (Rom.3:24; Eph.2:6-8; John 5:24).
The salvation of our OUTWARD MAN is a future event (Rom.8:11; 23), will takes place at 1 Cor.15:51-57.

1. Did Jesus pay for all mortal and venial sins and original sins?
   Yes, Christ has fully paid all our debts to God. We have THE green light to go to heaven. In FACT, we are already in Heaven, even though our feet stands on the earth, – Eph.2:6. Christ is in Heaven, we are ONE BODY with Christ. He is our RIGHTEOUSNESS, SANCTIFICATION AND SALVATION, and He has washed us SPOTLESSLY CLEAN “IN HIS OWN BLOOD”. – Rev.1:5.
2. If # 2 is true, why do we have to pay for them in purgatory or undo the damage here on earth?
   ALL OUR DEBTS to the last cent, is paid by Christ on the cross. If we could undo the damage by any means, then Christ died for NOTHING. Only reason Christ had to die on the cross is because for us to undo the damage is not possible.

If we follow the example of the Bereans (Acts 17:11), we find in
1 Cor.15:42-44, our earthly bodies will never go to Heaven.
In Rev.1:5; Phill.3:21; 1 Cor.15:51-57, we find, Christ wash us from our sins IN HIS OWN BLOOD and Christ transforms our bodies to be conformed to HIS GLORIOUS BODY.

Those who are alive at that time when He takes up His Bride to Heaven (John 14:1-3; 1 Thess.4:15-18), their bodies will change from earthly body to a GLORIOUS, INCORRUPTABLE heavenly body. – IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.

CONCLUSION
a. If we could undo the damage, then Christ died in vain.
b. Christ did undo ALL our damages and fully paid for them.
c. Christ transfers our earthly body and conforms to His incorruptible glorious, heavenly body IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE.
d. Christ wash us from our sins WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

1. 1 John 2:2 “And He Himself is the PROPITIATION for our SINS, and not for ours only but also for the WHOLE WORLD.”

IF WE THINK LOGICALLY
Christ is the PROPITATION for our sins.
Christ is the One who WASHED AWAY our sins in His OWN BLOOD.
Christ has saved us NOT ONLY from hell, but Christ has paid ALL our debt to God WITH HIS BLOOD.

So, our salvation is God’s FREE GIFT, “BY GRACE ALONE, SOLELY ON ACCOUNT OF THE WORK OF CHRIST,” which is the doctrine of justification and salvation of our Catholic Church.

Continue

 

[Lion_Heart]

CHRIST HAS ALSO SAVED US FROM THE LAW OF SLAVERY

Col.2:14; Gal.5:18 “Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And has taken out of the way, having nailed to the cross. … If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

Rom.7:1, 4 “Or do you not know, brethren … that the law has dominion over a man as long he lives?
Therefore. My brethren, YOU ALSO HAVE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another, even to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should BEAR FRUIT TO GOD.”

Certain conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL merit possible.

1. The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.
2. It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.
3. It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.
4. Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

HOW CAN OUR WORKS BE UP TO THE ABOVE STANDARDS?
a. It MUST be OPTIONAL, because if it is COMPULSORY, our works CANNOT meet the above standard, BECAUSE they cannot be done freely. – This standard is tailor made for those whom Christ has been set free from the law of slavery. Meaning: We can work freely for the glory of God, not because we NEED to, but because we WANT to. Work is NOT compulsory for salvation. – Rom.4:5-6; 1 Cor.3:11-15.

Those who believe they have to work for their salvation in one way or another their works could NEVER be able to meet the above conditions.

b. We are deceived and mislead (Matt.24:24), if we do our works FOR or to GET our salvation, or COMPLETE our salvation, or KEEP our salvation. This is from FREEDOM, back to SLAVERY AGAIN.
God does not reward SLAVE LABOR. If our works not done by free choice, it will count for nothing, and even DESTROY our faith as well.

c. Our works count only, if it is the fruits of our salvation, done for the GLORY OF GOD, done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

THE MOST COMMON MISTAKE that we can do, and as the result lose all our life’s work at judgment of 1 Cor.3:11-15.

1. To believe we have to work FOR or to GET our salvation, or COMPLETE our salvation, or KEEP our salvation.
2. To believe, Christ didn’t pay the full price for our salvation, and then with our work we have to make up what Christ didn’t pay.
3. To believe: If we don’t work, we will not be saved. This can happen if we have a wrong understanding on (for example) Rom.2:6-13; Phill.2:12-15; James 2:14, 24; or the parable of the talents or Matt 25:31-46; Rom.2:6-13.

PERFORMANCE the criterion of justification (Rom.2:6-13) V FAITH the criterion of justification Rom. (3:19-20, 23-24, 28). …

As we see above, context is very important. Paul is contrasting the old conventional way of WORK SALVATION which cannot save V with the salvation by FAITH of the New Covenant, which is THE only way of salvation.

If we take Rom.2:6-13 OUT OF CONTEXT, we can be deceived and to believe, “Faith + Works = Salvation” (half new + half old), which is THE greatest heresy in Christianity (Gal.1:6-9).

If we want to work WHAT COUNTS is, it must be done for gratitude to God for our salvation and for His glory.

This can be done only one way and ONE WAY only: done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY. Our works could qualify this condition only if we believe:

1. Our salvation is completed at our conversion. From now on, what we do is the fruits of our salvation, NOT THE CAUSE of it.
2. We MUST freely choose (if we want that our works count for anything) TO WORK or NOT TO WORK without the slightest worry that if we don’t work, we lose our salvation.
3. And then, if we chose FREELY to work, that can be done for gratitude to God and for His glory. – ONLY this is the work that God recognizes as work and it counts.

God doesn’t need, and doesn’t recognize slave labor ENERGIZED BY THE SPIRIT OF FEAR & DECEPTION and with strings attached.
God has PRONOUNCED the LIBERATION of our works in Rom.4:5-6 and in 1 Cor.3:11-15. There is no contradiction in the Bible. The interpretation of any Bible verse, which seems to contradict with Rom.4:5-6; 1 Cor.3:11-15 is FALSE INTERPRETATION, desired to put us back again to the LAW OF SLAVERY and to DESTROY our faith.

The interpretation James. (2:14, 24)
YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE By Peter Kreeft
(If someone doesn’t know: Peter Kreeft is one of the most popular and widely read Catholic authors today.)

“Highly recommended to all those who want to deepen their spiritual lives. The beauty of this book is that it literally makes the [Bible] come alive.” – John A. Harden, S.J.

Quote from page 291: “The apparent contradiction between James, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by works (2:21), and Paul, who says that we, like Abraham, are justified by faith, (Rom.4:3), is explained by looking at the CONTEXT.
Paul’s context is the relationship between the believer and God, while James’ context is the relationship between the believer and his neighbor.

God sees your faith; your neighbor sees your works.
FAITH JUSTIFIES US BEFORE GOD; WORKS JUSTIFY US BEFORE OUR NEIGHBORS.” End quote. Emphasis mine.

Paul and James are speaking about TWO DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.
God is the author of the Bible, He never makes mistake. So, NO ONE
SHOULD contradict one Bible verse with another. The interpretation is in the CONTEXT.

SAME WORDS DO NOT MEAN THE SAME SUJECT
For example: In John 3:16 the word (WORLD) and in 1John 2:15 the word (WORLD) referring to two different subjects, the interpretation is in the CONTEXT.

With love in Christ,
LH

 

[Bruincello]

Exactly Jesus saves humanity that accept him to be saviour by faith that he is. From Eternal (endless) destruction in hell where the fallen angels reside. . .

 

[JerryZ]

If Jesus never came then where Abraham ended up by faith seems OK (akin to an eternal natural paradise or at least a place of peace?) even if it isn’t comparable to Heaven.
What bad things was it that Jesus would have saved Abraham from?

Any thoughts?
I don’t really go along with the sort of “theology” that might say that even Abraham only attained to where he got to by the anticipated merits of Christ’s death. Sounds just a bit too revisionist-after-the-event as it were.

Jesus “saved” Abraham from having to endure his eternal permanence in the place he was sent to and to bring him with Him into God’s house, Heaven.

That “theology” is precisely what the Apostles believed.
They knew that no amount of temple sacrifices would allow them to enter the kindom of Heaven. And Jesus Himself told us about this in the parable of the rich man and Lazarous.
In every other parable taught by Jesus he never names the participants, except in this one.

Luke
16:19 There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and feasted sumptuously every day. 16:20 And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,
16:21 Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table. And no one did give him: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
16:22 And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.
16:23 And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom:
16:24 And he cried and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted and thou art tormented.
16:26 And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you cannot, nor from thence come hither.
16:27 And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren,
16:28 That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.
16:29 And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets. Let them hear them.
16:30 But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.
16:31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

–

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Jesus “saved” Abraham from having to endure his eternal permanence in the place he was sent to and to bring him with Him into God’s house, Heaven.​

Yet we have no reason to believe Abraham was not at peace where he dwelt for hundreds of years before Jesus came.
It may even have been a place at least as peaceful and blessed as an earth populated completely by just men and women without natural disaster or disease.
If Abraham comforted Lazarus then Abraham must have been in “comfort” himself?

When we say that we are “saved” from something that something is generally understood to mean “less than we know to be good”. It doesn’t mean “more than we knew to be good.”

Obviously “The Bosom of Abraham” cannot compare to Heaven, but then Abraham did not know what Heaven was or that it existed anyway until Christ preached it in the Underworld.

In other words sanctifying grace and “being saved from our sins” was already in play by God the Father and through faith all through history from the moment Adam fell.