Jesus' Second Coming

  • Thread starter Thread starter Faith1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’ve read on several sites that a Cardinal said Jesus might not return after all. Truth or hoax?
You know, it’s funny, if it were reported that some Protestant had made such a statement it would not be news at all. And it is that very fact which reveals the importance of the Catholic Church in religious matters: bring down the Catholic Church and you bring down all of Christianity; bring down a Protestant denomination and you just cut off a twig.
 
No new Jerusalem. The marriage supper has been cancelled. God will dwell apart from men. Mourning and crying and pain and tears and death will continue…

Bummer. 😦

-Tim-
Well, I guess we need to change the Creed to “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead - or so we believed until it became pretty obvious that He just had a bit too much to drink and was delivering an unsuccessful attempt to pull His disciples’ legs.” 🤷 :rolleyes:
Questions 2 and 3 were not answered. Neither was question 1.
With all charity, but I can’t help but notice from your posts that you have a tendency to be very scrupulous about things. In this case, it’s pretty clear - as has been pointed out - that the whole thing’s an obvious joke/hoax. Anyone should be able to see that. You don’t have to lose sleep over this.
 
Well, I guess we need to change the Creed to “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead - or so we believed until it became pretty obvious that He just had a bit too much to drink and was delivering an unsuccessful attempt to pull His disciples’ legs.” 🤷 :rolleyes:

With all charity, but I can’t help but notice from your posts that you have a tendency to be very scrupulous about things. In this case, it’s pretty clear - as has been pointed out - that the whole thing’s an obvious joke/hoax. Anyone should be able to see that. You don’t have to lose sleep over this.
I worry about a bunch of religious stuff. Is that scrupulously? I thought scrupulously was obsessing over sins or trying to behave perfectly.
 
Well, I guess we need to change the Creed to “He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead - or so we believed until it became pretty obvious that He just had a bit too much to drink and was delivering an unsuccessful attempt to pull His disciples’ legs.” 🤷 :rolleyes:
And change it from “and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead” to “my life has no meaning and I look forward to nothing.”

The entire world could say that Jesus isn’t coming back. The Church could quit, the Pope say it was all a sham and resign, and all the bishops and cardinals pack it in and go play golf, and I would still believe.

-Tim-
 
I’ve read on several sites that a Cardinal said Jesus might not return after all. Truth or hoax?
I personally don’t think that the second coming of Jesus is a globally ubiquitous transpersonal event. Instead, I think it’s a personal event when a person resurrects the Christ within themselves. If Christ is the vine and we are the branches, then being one with the Father as Christ was one with the Father is something of a matter of realization, because the vine and it’s branches are one thing, not two. It is one thing that branches out into many, yet it is still one thing.

I would offer the idea that awakening to this reality intuitively as well as intellectually, and in practice in our daily lives is the point at which our awareness of our connection with Christ and one another returns to flourish in the realized vine, which means that we are the Body of Christ. He has in fact never left, and the place he prepared for us is a place within, because the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of us, and to enter this place we need also to make a place for Him, and this is a reciprocal arrangement, I think. It’s something each person must attain for themselves, but in truth it’s only a realization of a reality that already and always has existed. What we seek is not here or there, this place or that. It is wherever we are. We don’t arrive in heaven, we realize and become, and the mystery of the Mass is simply an active demonstration of reality. It is not an abstraction. We are in fact what we seek. If we see our lives and the lives of the people around us as mundane and seek something other than this, then I’m offering the idea that we have missed the whole thing. I think the second coming happens one person at a time.

Thank you,
Gary
 
I personally don’t think that the second coming of Jesus is a globally ubiquitous transpersonal event. Instead, I think it’s a personal event when a person resurrects the Christ within themselves. If Christ is the vine and we are the branches, then being one with the Father as Christ was one with the Father is something of a matter of realization, because the vine and it’s branches are one thing, not two. It is one thing that branches out into many, yet it is still one thing.
What is a globally ubiquitous event? 😊
 
What is a globally ubiquitous event? 😊
Something that happens on a given or set date and time, experienced by all people in all places at one time, sky opening up, angels singing, end of the world, ect.
 
I personally don’t think that the second coming of Jesus is a globally ubiquitous transpersonal event. Instead, I think it’s a personal event when a person resurrects the Christ within themselves. If Christ is the vine and we are the branches, then being one with the Father as Christ was one with the Father is something of a matter of realization, because the vine and it’s branches are one thing, not two. It is one thing that branches out into many, yet it is still one thing.

I would offer the idea that awakening to this reality intuitively as well as intellectually, and in practice in our daily lives is the point at which our awareness of our connection with Christ and one another returns to flourish in the realized vine, which means that we are the Body of Christ. He has in fact never left, and the place he prepared for us is a place within, because the Kingdom of Heaven is inside of us, and to enter this place we need also to make a place for Him, and this is a reciprocal arrangement, I think. It’s something each person must attain for themselves, but in truth it’s only a realization of a reality that already and always has existed. What we seek is not here or there, this place or that. It is wherever we are. We don’t arrive in heaven, we realize and become, and the mystery of the Mass is simply an active demonstration of reality. It is not an abstraction. We are in fact what we seek. If we see our lives and the lives of the people around us as mundane and seek something other than this, then I’m offering the idea that we have missed the whole thing. I think the second coming happens one person at a time.

Thank you,
Gary
Is that compatible with the Catholic faith?
 
Is that compatible with the Catholic faith?
Good Evening Faith1960:

-I think it is consistent if we consider the things we profess to believe to be real and true and not abstracts. However, if the vine and its branches are not one thing expressed as many things, then it is inconsistent. But we know that the vine and the branch are one thing.

-If Jesus was only metaphorically speaking when He said when you don’t care for others you don’t care for Him, or that whatever you do or don’t do to others you do to Him, then my view is inconsistent.

-If as a Church we are not one bread and one body in Christ, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Kingdom of heaven is here or there and not inside of us, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Kingdom of Heaven is a far off distant place, then my view is inconsistent.

-If we cannot be one with the Father as Christ is one with the Father, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Eucharist is purely symbolic, then my view is inconsistent.

-If Jesus gave particulars about the Second Coming, then my views are inconsistent.

-If the Catholic Church teaches that the events in Revelations are in fact a prophesy of end times, then my views are inconsistent.

If, however, the things I have listed above have any truth in them, and if the Church teaches any of them, then I would imagine that it’s something to think about.

Thank You,
Gary
 
Good Evening Faith1960:

-I think it is consistent if we consider the things we profess to believe to be real and true and not abstracts. However, if the vine and its branches are not one thing expressed as many things, then it is inconsistent. But we know that the vine and the branch are one thing.

-If Jesus was only metaphorically speaking when He said when you don’t care for others you don’t care for Him, or that whatever you do or don’t do to others you do to Him, then my view is inconsistent.

-If as a Church we are not one bread and one body in Christ, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Kingdom of heaven is here or there and not inside of us, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Kingdom of Heaven is a far off distant place, then my view is inconsistent.

-If we cannot be one with the Father as Christ is one with the Father, then my view is inconsistent.

-If the Eucharist is purely symbolic, then my view is inconsistent.

-If Jesus gave particulars about the Second Coming, then my views are inconsistent.

-If the Catholic Church teaches that the events in Revelations are in fact a prophesy of end times, then my views are inconsistent.

If, however, the things I have listed above have any truth in them, and if the Church teaches any of them, then I would imagine that it’s something to think about.

Thank You,
Gary
The Church would say that, indeed, Jesus did give particulars. The Catechism addresses that. And as our creed says, He will come again to judge the living and the dead. There were specific predictions in Scripture about what will happen before His return.

Starting with 671 in the Catechism (and there is plenty more if you want to find it):
671 Though already present in his Church, Christ’s reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled “with power and great glory” by the King’s return to earth.557 This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ’s Passover.557 Until everything is subject to him, "until there be realized new heavens and a new earth in which justice dwells, the pilgrim Church, in her sacraments and institutions, which belong to this present age, carries the mark of this world which will pass, and she herself takes her place among the creatures which groan and travail yet and await the revelation of the sons of God."559 That is why Christians pray, above all in the Eucharist, to hasten Christ’s return by saying to him:560 Marana tha! “Our Lord, come!”
Here’s another place in Scripture that speaks of the second coming:
For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord" 1 Thes 4:14-16
As far as what Jesus taught about when you do for others you do for Him, that is not metaphorical. But I don’t know how that would negate the second coming. The rest of your points I am not going to get into because I think I have answered the question about Church teachings on the second coming.
 
Are a you sure? I’ve read about it on a bunch of sites and only one refutation, by Re. Joseph Osei-Bonsu. Who is he and is he legit?
Oh Please. Did you even read the article? “Jesus was drunk at the time he said he would return.” Don’t you get satire?
 
Oh Please. Did you even read the article? “Jesus was drunk at the time he said he would return.” Don’t you get satire?
People will believe and give credence to anything/anyone. Nothing you or I can do about it.

Apparently Fr Federico Lombardi position as the Official Spokesperson for the Vatican is only symbolic. 🤷
 
Concerning the second coming and the signs of it, have a look at Heralds of the Second Coming by Stephen Walford (Foreword by Cardinal Ivan Dias), in it he shows how the popes of the past 150 years have prophesied about the signs Jesus gave before his return are happening now. Part 2 of the book is devoted to St John Paul’s prophetic intuition.
Virtually all the words spoken from these popes are from magisterial teachings- but from speeches to other bishops etc that really are not known.
amazon.com/Heralds-Second-Coming-Blessed-Benedict-ebook/dp/B00DBNETXW/ref=pd_rhf_gw_s_t_1
 
Incomplete;The Church would say that, indeed, Jesus did give particulars. The Catechism addresses that. And as our creed says, He will come again to judge the living and the dead. There were specific predictions in Scripture about what will happen before His return.
Good Morning Incomplete: I have been travelling and hence the delay on my reply. I am aware of the what the Catechism says, and of course we do hear that every week. You had mentioned that Jesus gave particulars about the second coming, so if you would forgive my intellectual laziness, would you mind sharing the passages where Jesus says what the second coming will be like?
As far as what Jesus taught about when you do for others you do for Him, that is not metaphorical. But I don’t know how that would negate the second coming.
I don’t think it negates the second coming. It simply gives insight into our nature, or at least I think so. Now, you had mentioned a quote from Paul on what the last day would look like, and I am familiar with that account. I have always wondered where Paul got that, as I don’t recall that he said where he got it from. Do you know where he got that information, for instance did he say that Jesus shared it with him after he was knocked off his horse, or was it in some later session the two of them had, and were there in fact later instructional sessions, or did these things comes from visions? If not, did he surmise these from the writings of the Apostles who actually met Jesus when He was alive? If this is the case, where did he get it from?

Thanks,
Gary
 
=Faith1960;11939609]I’ve read on several sites that a Cardinal said Jesus might not return after all. Truth or hoax?
You are prudent in questioning this type of misleaqding information:)

John 14: 18-20 " will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. Yet a little while: and the world seeth me no more. But you see me: because I live, and you shall live. In that day you shall know, that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you."

Mt. 24:29-30 " And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty."

1st. Cor. 15: 46-50 " Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual. The first man was of the earth, earthly: the second man, from heaven, heavenly. Such as is the earthly, such also are the earthly: and such as is the heavenly, such also are they that are heavenly. Therefore as we have borne the image of the earthly, let us bear also the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption"

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top