R
ralphinal
Guest
Fair is fair. Please post the verses preceeding and following this one.
It is not saying what you are claiming it says
- Status
It is not saying what you are claiming it says
B
Booklover
Guest
Hamba, we are not puppets and God is not a master puppeteer in the sky pulling the strings!
Vickie
B
Booklover
Guest
Instead of worrying so much about all this prostration, you should worry about the mullahs and imams that preach hatred in the mosques.
Vickie
H
hamba2han
Guest
These are such very simple questions:
Why don’t Christians WANT to prostrate to God in their prayers?
You KNOW that it is not wrong for you to do this since Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples, together with the prophets like Abraham and Moses (pbut) did indeed prostrate to God as stated in your very own Bible.
Why do you instead prefer to pray towards statues and graven images i.e. something which they NEVER did?
Alas, I cannot say that I expect any Christian here to directly answer these questions.
Why don’t Christians WANT to prostrate to God in their prayers?
You KNOW that it is not wrong for you to do this since Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples, together with the prophets like Abraham and Moses (pbut) did indeed prostrate to God as stated in your very own Bible.
Why do you instead prefer to pray towards statues and graven images i.e. something which they NEVER did?
Alas, I cannot say that I expect any Christian here to directly answer these questions.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
Are you still kicking that dead horse?
There are times and places to do so.
Not 5 times a day. Mohammeds uncle felt it undignified to pray like Mohammed was teaching.
Why do you pray toward a city God never blessed and kiss a rock that fell from the sky that pagans venerated long before Mohammed?
I undertand them. Do you understand mine?
I
inJESUS
Guest
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Romans 14:11
For the scripture says, “As surely as I am the living God, says the Lord, everyone will kneel before me, and everyone will confess that I am God”
Do you actually READ what we respond to you? Or does it not make any sense to you?
H
hamba2han
Guest
I am not sure what your point is.
Romans 14:11 describes what will happen on the Day of Judgment when every creation will assemble and kneel before their Creator.
Matthew 17:6 however describes how the disciples prostrated to God at the time of Jesus (pbuh) some 2000 years ago.
Romans 14:11 therefore really does not contradict the Islamic teaching that those who do not prostrate to their Creator during their time in this world will not be allowed to do so on Judgment Day.
In other words, even though they will kneel before God, they will not be able to go further and prostrate, no matter how much they would want to on that Day.
S
swariffin
Guest
Yes we do, though not 5 times a day. Prostrating 5 times, 1 time, 100 times a day does not determine the degree of sincerity of your prayer. I have told this forum many times, what good the MANNER of prayer compared to THE CONTENT of the prayer?
I do prostrate, especially during the good friday. Do you believe that you are prostrating 5 times a day makes you more holy to the one who does not? Now, think about this, you are praying 5 times a day with prostrating, and compared to someone praying 50 times a day without prostrating. Who is talking to God more?
We are NOT REQUIRED to pray towards statues and graven images. We are NOT REQUIRED to face to ANY BUILDING, ANY STONES, ANYTHING when praying.
We have answered your question. Now please answer our question, Why do you REQUIRED to face the stone of Ka’ Ba. Is Allah = Ka Ba? Why do you need to follow Muhammad kissing a Black Stone? Is there any teaching of Black Stone from heaven in Quran? What makes you believe that anything from heaven must be kissed? Does it mean that anything from heaven is God only?
You mentioned that the stone was originally white but became black because of sins. Whose sins? the moslems? or others?
Alas, I cannot say that I can expect any logical answer other than telling myths.
A
Angelos
Guest
Listen to my simple questions:
Why don’t Muslims kneel down before their Allah in their prayers although it is written in the Bible?
Why do Muslims imitate only Syriac Christians in their worship?
H
hamba2han
Guest
You are still not answering my question.
Why don’t you WANT to prostrate to the Lord whenever you pray?
Since the Bible states that Jesus (pbuh) and his disciples prostrated to God and also the prophets like Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them both), there is therefore absolutely nothing wrong with it and there is nothing that is preventing you from doing so if you desire it, is there?
Why do you choose to do it then?
Muslims are required to pray in the direction of the Ka’bah because Allah has commanded it.
An obedient servant would never question the orders of his Lord, would he?
No.
And the reason why we kiss the Black Stone is because the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was seen kissing it.
Not that I know of.
The story of the Black Stone is found in the Seerah i.e the collection of narrations about the people and events surrounding the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) arranged in a chronological order.
The sins of all the descendants of Adam (pbuh).
BTW, there is also a tradition that the Black Stone has the ability to float in water and this sets it apart from any other similar looking stones.
S
swariffin
Guest
Nothing wrong if you are prostrating when praying, and I never said it is wrong either. But, it does not mean that prostrating is a required gesture. The manner of praying is not important, it is the content of praying which is more important. So, I have already answered your question.
Because at a certain time, it is more appropriate if I am prostrating. In that situation, I don’t care if other person does not prostrate, either.
A reasonable human as instructed by God to use all his might and the ability to think, should be able to differentiate what is idolatry and what is not. In the Roman Catholic Church, we are lucky that we have the magisterium who help us. A reasonable human must also be able to THINK what is consistent and what is not. If God forbid idolatry why God commanded human to face a tangible building when praying. Logically God is degrading Himself. The question is, will God ever degrading Himself?? Following God’s word is a mandatory, I agree with you. But, you are warned not to follow the wrong one.
You told me that human should follow God. You told me that the word of God is Quran. If Quran never said anything about the Hajr Aswat (Kissing the black stone), and somebody saw Muhammad kissing it, Why would you have to follow Muhammad? Does Muhammad has the power to override Quran? You told us that Muhammad is a servant of God, correct?
Does it include the sins of the Indonesians and the Israellite too?
You can confirm the legend simply by placing the Black Stone in a bucket of water to prove that the legend is true. No need to waste too much time for arguing.
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
You would have to believe Mohammed to believe that.
Mohammed is not the Lord and does not speak in His name. He was deceived.
Why can’t the Koran be in chronological order? The rock was worshiped by pagans before Islam, just as the kaaba was the site of pagan worship before Islam. God never blessed it and Abraham never visited the area with or without Ishmael.
It is a (now broken) meteroite. It was always black and it is amazing that Muslims believe a stone will take the sin of man but not the Son of Man, Jesus.
I
inJESUS
Guest
a stone taking the sins is an honour to humans and shows a greater sacrifice and love on it’s part than the Son of Man who willingly came as a human without a biological father to give His life to humanity…let’s all thank the stone for taking off its white garment for our sake.
I
inJESUS
Guest
V
Verisimilitude
Guest
I wonder if it ‘related’ to the Blarney Stone?
I
inJESUS
Guest
i guess the 2 stones are relatives since one was supposedly built by Abraham and the second is related to Moses
D
dolphinlove
Guest
I couldnt kiss that… im scared of heights…
R
ralphinal
Guest
Body position is not related to spirit. Body position is not related to Truth. It may be meritorious or a good aid to prayer, but according to Jesus, it is not crucial.
D
dolphinlove
Guest
They threw themselves down not because they were taught to, but were scared, then Jesus told them to get up.
The point here is why did God command them to kneel and not pray like you keep suggesting we should?
Because its the way he wants us to pray, by kneeling… simple.
- Status