Jesus taught the Eucharist ...in the Lord's Prayer

  • Thread starter Thread starter brb3
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

brb3

Guest
“Give us this day our Epiousios (Supernatural) Bread”

This was the translation of the Jewish language & scripture expert St. JEROME.
Also held by St. Cyprian @ St. Cyril…as early as 200’s.
 
brb3 said:
“Give us this day our Epiousios (Supernatural) Bread”

This was the translation of the Jewish language & scripture expert St. JEROME.
Also held by St. Cyprian @ St. Cyril…as early as 200’s.
Click to expand...
I have heard this before but I can’t remember where…now every time I say the prayer it is what I think of.:gopray2:
 
I’m pretty sure this is in Vinny Flynn’s “Seven Secrets of the Eucharist” (book or CD).

Even if not explicitly there, I love promoting this book. 😃

disclaimer: Vinny doesn’t pay me. 😛
 
It is also covered in “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” By: Brany Pitre, Scott Hahn
And, Lighthouse Catholic Media has a CD by a similar title “Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” which covers most of the same material in a shorter version.

Both are great resources! 🙂
 
The Douay rendering is “give us this day our supersubstantial bread”.

Since the rest of the petitions involve the supernatural order and supernatural gifts – hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom, come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven – it would be truly odd to have a mere petition for God to fulfill a natural need which, as He said, God freely provides to birds. If we shouldn’t be “anxious” for those things, why would He be teaching us to pray for something that we shouldn’t be anxious for?

Thank you for such a simple matter for long meditation . . . .
 
Becky4906 said:
It is also covered in “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” By: Brany Pitre, Scott Hahn
And, Lighthouse Catholic Media has a CD by a similar title “Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” which covers most of the same material in a shorter version.

Both are great resources! 🙂
Click to expand...
Jaysuitical said:
The Douay rendering is “give us this day our supersubstantial bread”.

Since the rest of the petitions involve the supernatural order and supernatural gifts – hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom, come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven – it would be truly odd to have a mere petition for God to fulfill a natural need which, as He said, God freely provides to birds. If we shouldn’t be “anxious” for those things, why would He be teaching us to pray for something that we shouldn’t be anxious for?

Thank you for such a simple matter for long meditation . . . .
Click to expand...
👍 👍

Pitre goes into detail, using Scriptural and Jewish historical sources as well as our own Catechism, to show the correlation between this part of the Lord’s prayer and the Bread of the Presence (which was the “supernatural” Bread of the Face [of God] ) along with the fulfillment of the new Manna from Heaven. The Jews believed that the Messiah would be a fulfillment of, or a “new” Moses…who would provide a fulfilling and more great “new” manna from Heaven.

That book is AWESOME!!!
 
Becky4906 said:
It is also covered in “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” By: Brany Pitre, Scott Hahn
And, Lighthouse Catholic Media has a CD by a similar title “Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” which covers most of the same material in a shorter version.

Both are great resources! 🙂
Click to expand...
I also listened to that CD and highly recommend it. I probably heard it there.
 
Becky4906 said:
It is also covered in “Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” By: Brany Pitre, Scott Hahn
And, Lighthouse Catholic Media has a CD by a similar title “Jewish Roots of the Eucharist” which covers most of the same material in a shorter version.

Both are great resources! 🙂
Click to expand...
Yes, Pitre’s book is where I saw it today. He gives fully scriptural support… for proofs, on why Eucharist is not symbolic. The Jews never considered the Manna Bread as symbolic …thus the Eucharist taught by Christ in John 6, could never be less than that first Supernatural bread from heaven.
 
So how in the world did we end up with the awful translation we now use?
 
snarflemike said:
So how in the world did we end up with the awful translation we now use?
Click to expand...
The explanation in Pitre’s book is that it’s the first occurrence in all of Greek literature of the word “epiousios” (only appearing in the two accounts of the Lord’s prayer)…so there was some uncertainty on how to translate it. There was also uncertainty if this was a translation of a Hebrew or Aramaic word. “Supernatural” was the closest rendering if the word was taken at its most obvious (epi = above and ousia = nature/substance). It could also be rendered “supersubstantial”. Jerome explained it as supersubstantial, and Cyril and Cyprian agreed.

(I can give the quotes from the book later if you want…right now I am baby-sitting while my wife is having a night out…so holding a book and typing quotes is a task.) 😊
 
Okay, they’re in bed now…

"What is the meaning of Jerome’s translation? He himself tells us elsewhere: the bread of the Lord’s Prayer is supersubstantial because “it is above all substances and surpasses all creatures.” In other words, it is supernatural. And Jerome is not alone in this understanding. Significantly, Saint Cyril, bishop of Jerusalem in the fourth century A.D., also says of the Lord’s Prayer: “Common bread is not supersubstantial, but this Holy Bread is supersubstantial” (Mystagogic Lectures, 23.15). Likewise, Saint Cyprian of Carthage, writing in the third century A.D., says in his treatise on the Lord’s Prayer that the bread Jesus speaks of is “heavenly bread,” the “food of salvation.” " (Pitre, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist, pp95-96)

He goes on to say that if Jerome is right, then the"daily bread" in the Lord’s Prayer is none other than the new manna from Heaven.
 
When I first became Catholic and was in my bookstore one day, a cradle Catholic came in and we started a discussion about the Lord’s prayer and our daily bread.

And I said to her, “Jesus was not talking about dinner. He was talking about the Eucharist.”

Truly, I don’t know why I knew that (I hadn’t been a Catholic for very long at all) but she was kinda surprised because she had never been taught that. And she is very devout and a daily Mass goer as well.

I always give credit to the Holy Spirit because sometimes things come out of my mouth that there is no way that I could know.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_PAA.HTM#KH

**2837 **“Daily” (epiousios) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. Taken in a temporal sense, this word is a pedagogical repetition of “this day,” to confirm us in trust “without reservation.” Taken in the qualitative sense, it signifies what is necessary for life, and more broadly every good thing sufficient for subsistence. Taken literally (epi-ousios: “super-essential”), it refers directly to the Bread of Life, the Body of Christ, the “medicine of immortality,” without which we have no life within us. Finally in this connection, its heavenly meaning is evident: “this day” is the Day of the Lord, the day of the feast of the kingdom, anticipated in the Eucharist that is already the foretaste of the kingdom to come. For this reason it is fitting for the Eucharistic liturgy to be celebrated each day.

The Eucharist is our daily bread. the power belonging to this divine food makes it a bond of union. Its effect is then understood as unity, so that, gathered into his Body and made members of him, we may become what we receive… This also is our daily bread: the readings you hear each day in church and the hymns you hear and sing. All these are necessities for our pilgrimage.

The Father in heaven urges us, as children of heaven, to ask for the bread of heaven. [Christ] himself is the bread who, sown in the Virgin, raised up in the flesh, kneaded in the Passion, baked in the oven of the tomb, reserved in churches, brought to altars, furnishes the faithful each day with food from heaven.
 
Nita said:
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_PAA.HTM#KH

**2837 **“Daily” (epiousios) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. Taken in a temporal sense, this word is a pedagogical repetition of “this day,” to confirm us in trust “without reservation.” Taken in the qualitative sense, it signifies what is necessary for life, and more broadly every good thing sufficient for subsistence. Taken literally (epi-ousios: “super-essential”), it refers directly to the Bread of Life, the Body of Christ, the “medicine of immortality,” without which we have no life within us. Finally in this connection, its heavenly meaning is evident: “this day” is the Day of the Lord, the day of the feast of the kingdom, anticipated in the Eucharist that is already the foretaste of the kingdom to come. For this reason it is fitting for the Eucharistic liturgy to be celebrated each day.

The Eucharist is our daily bread. the power belonging to this divine food makes it a bond of union. Its effect is then understood as unity, so that, gathered into his Body and made members of him, we may become what we receive… This also is our daily bread: the readings you hear each day in church and the hymns you hear and sing. All these are necessities for our pilgrimage.

The Father in heaven urges us, as children of heaven, to ask for the bread of heaven. [Christ] himself is the bread who, sown in the Virgin, raised up in the flesh, kneaded in the Passion, baked in the oven of the tomb, reserved in churches, brought to altars, furnishes the faithful each day with food from heaven.
Click to expand...
Yes, the best commentary on scripture, the best concordance ever written…the Catholic Church Catechism. The desire of JP2 The Great …put a copy in the hands of all men !!! And thru it the world will be evangelized/changed. It is our best means of accomplishing the new Evangelization.

So, I tested out this desire of JP2. I started sending copy of CCC to my Protestant friends. And, they LOVE IT. They are now sending copies to their friends !! Share the good news of the CCC !!!

JP2 was right !!
 
brb3 said:
So, I tested out this desire of JP2. I started sending copy of CCC to my Protestant friends. And, they LOVE IT. They are now sending copies to their friends !! Share the good news of the CCC !!!

JP2 was right !!
Click to expand...
What a good thing to do brb. Bless you.
 
I was curious, so I looked up the Aramaic. That version is translated “Give us the bread of our need this day.”

However, I don’t have access to an Aramaic lexicon so the word in question may have subtler meanings.
 
SonCatcher said:
I was curious, so I looked up the Aramaic. That version is translated “Give us the bread of our need this day.”

However, I don’t have access to an Aramaic lexicon so the word in question may have subtler meanings.
Click to expand...
EPI OUSIA … epi [above], and ousia [substance]

So, … substance from above, … ‘Heavenly Bread’ or ‘Bread from Above’ or ‘Bread from on High’ or ‘Highest Bread’.

Jerome use word ‘Supersubstantial’ …////////// SO, “exceedingly powerful” … or SUPERNATURAL

Certainly not our Kellog Wheaties …
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top