Jesus the scriptures point to me!?

[wiggbuggie]

Ok well I was reading the bible today and something came to my mind that got me thinking. Often times in the gospels Jesus says this part of scripture was talking about him or he did this so this scripture will be true but the problem I have is some of these verses are so vague I don’t see the connection to Jesus one example is in John 13:18 “The one who eats my food has turned against me” in my bible the footnotes point it to pslam 41:9 Isn’t the book of psalms just a prayer and worship book? unless kind david wrote about the future while he was praising God even that whole pslam means something different. help me out here if you get were I am going with this

 

[ConallCernach]

The Catholic Church teaches that there are multiple levels to Scripture (or at least the potential to have multiple levels).

The Psalms may be referring to a specific historical event (such as David praising God), but it can also foreshadow Christ. Should God inspire the Scriptures and the authors, then He would be able to plant such foreshadowing in the Scriptures.

I hope this helps.

Pax

 

[Luke65]

“Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet.” (Psalm 22:16)

How’s that?

 

[Angels2Stay]

When the Preist Blesses the Bread and Wine, does he become Jesus or is he a representative for Jesus??? Please can someone help with this.

Angels2Stay

 

[Cachonga]

The Old Testament is full of references to Jesus. Psalms 22 is a perfect description of what happened at the crucifixion (Jesus even quoted Ps 22:1 - “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me”). In Luke 24:24-28 Jesus “expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself”. In Acts 8:26-39, Phillip “opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus” (verse 35). The only scriptures available at the time was the Old Testament. Undoubtedly, the Old Testament points to Jesus.

 

[promethius]

Ok well I was reading the bible today and something came to my mind that got me thinking. Often times in the gospels Jesus says this part of scripture was talking about him or he did this so this scripture will be true but the problem I have is some of these verses are so vague I don’t see the connection to Jesus one example is in John 13:18 “The one who eats my food has turned against me” in my bible the footnotes point it to pslam 41:9 Isn’t the book of psalms just a prayer and worship book? unless kind david wrote about the future while he was praising God even that whole pslam means something different. help me out here if you get were I am going with this

Actually the psalms contain many elements of prophecy and many elements describing what the Christ would be like. A lot of the prophetic prayers are written from the perspective of Christ even.

Further, I think you’re being a little modernist about scripture. In Jesus’ time, there was no such thing as division by chapter and verse. When you wanted to reference a passage of scripture, you didn’t say Psalms 41… you said the first line of scripture in a given passage. Another example of this is where Christ says (on the cross): “My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” This is NOT a literal statement: it is a reference to the section of psalms that predicted the crucifiction and death of Christ.

So, bearing that in mind, that stating a line of scripture is often a way to call up entire passages, let’s look at what psalm 41 addresses in context:

5My enemies say of me in malice,
“When will he die, and his name perish?”
6And when one comes to see me,(F) he utters empty words,
while his heart gathers iniquity;
when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7All who hate me whisper together about me;
they imagine the worst for me.d]

8They say, "A deadly thing is poured out[e](http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Psalms+41&passage2=&passage3=&passage4=&passage5=&version1=47&version2=0&version3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=35&Submit.y=15#fen-ESV-14551e)] on him;

he will not rise again from where he lies."
9Even my(G) close friend in whom I trusted,
who(H) ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me.
10But you, O LORD, be gracious to me,
and raise me up, that I may repay them!

11By this I know that(*("http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Psalms+41&passage2=&passage3=&passage4=&passage5=&version1=47&version2=0&version3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=35&Submit.y=15#cen-ESV-14554I")) you delight in me:

my enemy will not shout in triumph over me.
12But(J) you have upheld me because of(K) my integrity,
and(L) set me in your presence(M) forever. 13(N) Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel,
from everlasting to everlasting!
Amen and Amen

Looks to me like a pretty germain reference to the way the scribes and pharisees plotted the death of Christ and how Judas would betray Him…

 

[promethius]

When the Preist Blesses the Bread and Wine, does he become Jesus or is he a representative for Jesus??? Please can someone help with this.

Angels2Stay

you should create a new thread for this question…

 

[wiggbuggie]

thanks guys that makes sense now that scripture has multiple layers and they used to quote passages not verses and chapters in bible times. Any place in the catachism that it talks about scripture or how layered it is? I found another passage in pslam that Jesus or the disciples didn’t quote, pslam 107 when Jesus calms the storm, guess I can also safely say that was propthetic part as well.

 

[LilyM]

David was indeed a prophet - and didn’t just prophesy Christ’s coming.

Take a look at the first part of Psalm 137 -

"1 By the rivers of Babylon,
There we sat down and wept,
When we remembered Zion.

2 Upon the willows in the midst of it
We hung our harps.

3 For there our captors demanded of us songs,
And our tormentors mirth, saying,
“Sing us one of the songs of Zion.”

4 How can we sing the LORD’S song
In a foreign land? "

And remember that David lived about four centuries before the Babylonian conquest of Israel. Definitely a prophet.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Ok well I was reading the bible today and something came to my mind that got me thinking. Often times in the gospels Jesus says this part of scripture was talking about him or he did this so this scripture will be true but the problem I have is some of these verses are so vague I don’t see the connection to Jesus one example is in John 13:18 “The one who eats my food has turned against me” in my bible the footnotes point it to pslam 41:9 Isn’t the book of psalms just a prayer and worship book? unless kind david wrote about the future while he was praising God even that whole pslam means something different. help me out here if you get were I am going with this

It is helpful to remember that Jesus was the Living Word of God - scripture incarnate - which adds another dimension to the commandment to “eat my body and drink my blood so you may have life within you” (man must live by EVERY word that comes out of the mouth of God).

Many of the OT prophets and sacred text writers had NO CLUE that what they were saying in their own historical context would project a dual principal forward into eternity - this is the nature of the Divine Word - it is timeless. Looking back from our current vantage point in history we can now see PROFOUND correspondence in OT to NT events that the OT prophets had no idea - which just completely destroys any notion that Christianity was all contrived by man. It is the fact that there are so many conflicts among the Jewish tribes and the wonder that we still have all this OT verse and what happened in the NT that we know absolutely that it was impossible for some grand intergenerational scheme to dupe people into believing a fable or myth. The very idea that the Jews cast off Jesus just adds more amazing credibility that no one could have invented this stuff; and illustrates how a hardened heart and stubbornness in sin can completely blind one to the amazing scriptural fulfillment going on at the time of Christ. The Jews were EXPERT at scripture but they completely missed the living truth - but this was to fulfill scripture and we know that eventually a remnant finally “get it” and lament to much weeping to “look upon He who they have pierced” in sorrow.

So yes - the psalms do contain a fair amount of prophesy or foreshadowing imagery. One can also see in the psalms of lamentation quite clearly Mary as Daughter Zion lamenting in severe sorrow the loss of her son.

The bible in its entirety is amazingly integrative and its almost a shame that we broke it into Old Testament and New Testament (itself a metaphor for God creating new from old) as one seamless garment of truth. It’s a love story and story of keeping ancient promises and if anyone can’t see it at least in part is missing the greatest story ever told - God’s Love for humanity and the promise for deliverance from the bondage of sin (as in Egypt) through baptismal (seas parting) and rebirth in the dessert (40 weeks gestation to make a baby - 40 years in the dessert) and delivery to the promised land (heaven). Jesus is simply the reopening of heaven to man through the narrow gate of the cross (the pascal doorway where the blood of the lamb is sprinkled on the lentil).

Amazing stuff and we only have one lifetime to appreciate it all and wonder over it…

James

 

[ryanoneil]

Something to keep in mind about (Ps 41:9) is that Jesus’ reference looks past Judas. The Psalmist laments the treachery of his enemies but even more that of his trusted companion, who ate at his table as a friend only to betray him as a foe. As the psalm progresses, however, the turmoil of the Psalmist gives way to the confidence that Yahweh will vindicate him in due time.

 

[davidv]

thanks guys that makes sense now that scripture has multiple layers and they used to quote passages not verses and chapters in bible times. Any place in the catachism that it talks about scripture or how layered it is? I found another passage in pslam that Jesus or the disciples didn’t quote, pslam 107 when Jesus calms the storm, guess I can also safely say that was propthetic part as well.

You can read about how a Catholic should read the bible in the CCC starting at article 101.

 

[FCEGM]

Ok well I was reading the bible today and something came to my mind that got me thinking. Often times in the gospels Jesus says this part of scripture was talking about him or he did this so this scripture will be true but the problem I have is some of these verses are so vague I don’t see the connection to Jesus one example is in John 13:18 “The one who eats my food has turned against me” in my bible the footnotes point it to pslam 41:9 Isn’t the book of psalms just a prayer and worship book? unless kind david wrote about the future while he was praising God even that whole pslam means something different. help me out here if you get were I am going with this

Regarding the Psalms, Fr. Thomas Merton wrote a lovely book - Bread In the Wilderness - about them and their use in the Liturgy of the Church; this passage is especially helpful:

“The psalms are not merely ancient poems which the Church fancifully adapts to her own liturgical uses. Everything in them is charged with vital urgency by virtue of the fact that they are full of Christ. Either they speak to us directly of the Redeemer Himself in His sufferings, His kingship, His priesthood: or else they narrate the trials and progress of the Mystical Christ, the Church, His people. When Israel went out of Egypt and wandered in the desert, God became a pilgrim with them in the dark years of their tribulation. He came down to them on the mountain in cloud and fire, speaking to them through Moses who was a type of Christ. He fed them in the desert with manna, foreshadowing the Holy Eucharist. Water sprang from a rock in the desert at the command of Moses, and never ceased to supply them until they settled in the Land of Promises. ‘The Rock,’ says St. Paul, ‘was Christ’ . . . .It is in chanting the Psalms that we too are leaving Egypt. The Liturgy is the Church’s greatest weapon against her enemies because it is filled with the might of the Mystery which is its center. The Mystery of Christ is the heart of all history and extends backwards and forwards and embraces all time. It was in Christ that Israel crossed the desert and it is in Christ that we, the tribes of Israel, are going up to Jerusalem. The Mystery of Christ is timeless: but we enter into it by consecrating to Him the little part that is ours of history and of time.”