No you are making the verses say what you want them to say, and not at all telling us that Jesus did not mean what he said: : (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”I seems you are giving Mt 5 priority over the other verses instead of reconciling them.
Is the pot calling the kettle black? Are you an historical scholar? From where did you graduate? What degree have you?You really don’t know your history very well. Christians were persecuted because they would not serve in any army. Saying they didn’t fight because they didn’t have the means is nothing but false.
Police are some of the world’s enforcers, and their job in the world is to enforce the laws. If someone is breaking the law then the police are supposed to enforce the law. Yes I would call the police if they were needed.No I guess you did not, but you also did not give any evidence to back up your claim.
I suppose pacifism is the “safe” way to go, but I also wonder if this might not lead to times where people could have done something but don’t. As in your example of an intruder in your home. You clearly that you do not want to harm the intruder, and I know that no one knows what they would do in any hypothetical situation, but that does not mean we should not think about it, so when a time comes to act (or not act) we will be prepared.
I really am curious about this. Would you run to call the police (assuming you didn’t stand in the way of the intruder), or because they would use force would you not?
Again, I am not trying to trap or get you to contradict yourself, I am merely looking for clarity. If the Church was to teach Pacifism, Catholics everywhere would be asking these same questions because we would want to know how to act.
I would tell you about my education, but doubt you would believe me so I will just I have read saint stories where the saints were persecuted because they would not fight in an army.Is the pot calling the kettle black? Are you an historical scholar? From where did you graduate? What degree have you?
Are you winning people over here or causing them to fervently defend the faith?
I disagree on two levels.Police are some of the world’s enforcers, and their job in the world is to enforce the laws. If someone is breaking the law then the police are supposed to enforce the law. Yes I would call the police if they were needed.
If the whole world were Christian then there would be no need of laws.
The world needs to use force, because it has no other means to control evil.
Ye of little faith.I would tell you about my education, but doubt you would believe me so I will just I have read saint stories where the saints were persecuted because they would not fight in an army.
I will tell you what; my job is not to convince people. What I told you is the truth, and if you don’t care to receive it, so be it. Also it is hard to prove anything using history, it was written by man, and it is not too reliable. Man manipulates the written Word of God, and the people who wrote that were guided by God himself.Ye of little faith.
While some Saints may have refused to fight, we need the historical context, same for the apostles. What if the apostles did not want to join the army because they wanted to preach the gospel and joining the army would take time away from that? What if the Saints refused because the war was not a just one?
Why do you trust the Catholic Church with determining the content of Scripture, but not with its interpretation?I will tell you what; my job is not to convince people. What I told you is the truth, and if you don’t care to receive it, so be it. Also it is hard to prove anything using history, it was written by man, and it is not too reliable. Man manipulates the written Word of God, and the people who wrote that were guided by God himself.
The only way any of us can be sure of the truth is to let the Holy Spirit/Jesus teach him or her.
“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Unless you have had the hands of an appointed leader (bishop) laid upon you for a commission, or have had a demon submit when you use the name of Jesus, you have no authority to be interpreting Scripture by yourself. Spare us the story, since 99.9% of us here do not have it, so don’t even pretend to have us believe that you do.~Luke 10:16~
Are the Chaplains of every faith within the military also misled? Are they responsible for this supposed misleading? Will they be condemned for doing so?I believe Christian soldiers are very misled people. I also believe in their spirits they know it is wrong to kill.
Thankful10 is just taking this to the extreme.Are the Chaplains of every faith within the military also misled? Are they responsible for this supposed misleading? Will they be condemned for doing so?
Do you have any idea how many of us, YES, I SAID US, here on this website are soldiers or veterans who have protected your right to say something that ignorant?
I have never interpreted scripture on my own, and claimed it was the truth. I only give what God has given me.Why do you trust the Catholic Church with determining the content of Scripture, but not with its interpretation?
**First of all I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the same church that God used to assemble the Bible. **You are biting the hand that feeds you. We are commanded by Jesus to listen to our Church leaders:
That is true, but Jesus has given us his Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I have listened to the Church and then taken what I was taught to God. God showed me where the Church is not teaching the truth
Unless you have had the hands of an appointed leader (bishop) laid upon you for a commission, or have had a demon submit when you use the name of Jesus, you have no authority to be interpreting Scripture by yourself. Spare us the story, since 99.9% of us here do not have it, so don’t even pretend to have us believe that you do.
But you saidI have never interpreted scripture on my own, and claimed it was the truth. I only give what God has given me.
So you are saying that God interpreted the scripture for you?That is true, but Jesus has given us his Holy Spirit to teach and guide us. I have listened to the Church and then taken what I was taught to God. God showed me where the Church is not teaching the truth
I have served five years in the US Armed Forces. I believed the Church leaders teachings until Jesus started teaching me. You, who believe that Christians have a right to defend yourself or others using violence, are being misled just as I was.Are the Chaplains of every faith within the military also misled? Are they responsible for this supposed misleading? Will they be condemned for doing so?
Do you have any idea how many of us, YES, I SAID US, here on this website are soldiers or veterans who have protected your right to say something that ignorant?
And this OP is one of the best illustrations of the fact that theologians are needed - to consider the entirety of Scripture, and not just get blocked on one or two verses (which don’t even have the meaning attributed to them!!)(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
(1 Timothy 1:8-11) “We know, of course, that the Law is good, but only provided it is treated like any law, in the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are good. On the contrary, they are for criminals and revolutionaries, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the irreverent; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, for those who are immoral with women or with boys or with men, for liars and for perjurers and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching that goes with the Good News of the glory of the blessed God, the gospel that was entrusted to me.”I disagree on two levels.
First, we are sinners and would still need laws. If the whole world were Christians their would still be theft, murder, war etc.
Second, we have God’s law, in the Ten Commandments and in our Hearts.
Sorry, but that is a historical fact.First of all I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the same church that God used to assemble the Bible.
Wrong again…Christians who know God would never sin.
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
If Saint Paul was not exempt from it, what makes you think any true Christian is?~Romans 7:14-25
so you never sin?(1 Timothy 1:8-11) “We know, of course, that the Law is good, but only provided it is treated like any law, in the understanding that laws are not framed for people who are good. On the contrary, they are for criminals and revolutionaries, for the irreligious and the wicked, for the sacrilegious and the irreverent; they are for people who kill their fathers or mothers and for murderers, for those who are immoral with women or with boys or with men, for liars and for perjurers and for everything else that is contrary to the sound teaching that goes with the Good News of the glory of the blessed God, the gospel that was entrusted to me.”
Christians who know God would never sin.
Do I read the OP right to believe that most martyrs were persecuted for refusing service in the Roman army. Strange …a lot of early Christians served in the army. Strange that the Roman army should need the 90 year old men - were they martyred for refusing to serve, or the young children or the women?“You there! Yes you! The one pistol whipping the old lady - you know who I’m talking to. You stop that or I shall look at you with love and understanding!”
This may have already been said, but…(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”