Jesus told us to be pacifists

[torch621]

tl;dr: Anyone wanna help me out with the long winded reply?

Suffice to say, everyone sins. Saying you’ll never commit another sin in your life because you’re a Christian is false, and smacks of the sin of pride, one of the seven deadlies, and the father of all other sins.

I will continue to pray that you discover the real truth, not something you just came up with yourself one day by reading a few out-of-context Bible verses.

 

[Timothysis]

By the way being with out sin does not make on perfect.

By this logic, then, we can say that Christ Himself was not perfect, even though He was without sin. The same, too, for the Blessed Mother, even though she is the Immaculate Conception. So, if Christ, as the second person of the Holy Trinity, can be without sin yet not perfect, then God Himself, can be imperfect, too.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this line of thinking?:whacky:

 

[zach_dunn]

Only the Pope has the authority to speak ex cathedra on his own, and most never exercised that privilege, including our current one. Your statement doesn’t change anything that I said, and not only that, we Catholics who actually hold fast to the Truth.

What do you mean by using “our” and “we?” Do you think you are Catholic?

No you are wrong the Pope does not have the authority to speak on his own. He especially does not have a right to change what Jesus taught. The Holy Spirit/Jesus is the head of the Church.

You are correct in saying that the Pope does not have the right to change what Jesus taught (something you are doing yourself), no one does. You fail to understand that Jesus gave the Church an earthly leader to guide us in His stead [cf. Mt 16:18-19; Lk 10:16; Jn 21:15-17]. This authority is demonstrated in the Jerusalem council [Acts 15:6-12]. I would like to note that in verse 7 (“And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”) that by specifically his mouth the Gentiles were to hear the gospel. Peter, the first Pope, had the authority to speak on his own; of course, his proclamations were guided by the Holy Spirit and were proclaimed with Christ’s authority [cf. Lk 10:16]. This is why the Pope has the ability to speak authoritatively.

The Holy Spirit did not allow Christians to become soldiers and killers.

Unless it is for a just cause. Take a look at these Scriptures:

Deuteronomy 32:39-43
“39 ‘See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and swear, As I live for ever, 41 if I whet my glittering sword, and my hand takes hold on judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries, and will requite those who hate me. 42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh–with the blood of the slain and the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy.’ 43 Praise his people, O you nations; for he avenges the blood of his servants, and takes vengeance on his adversaries, and makes expiation for the land of his people.”

Hebrews 13:8
“8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.”

It would seem that Jesus, who is always the same, allowed some killing at some time. Obviously, since He is an all-just God, there must have been a just reason for any killing; the link posted above gives the criteria for determining whether or not a war is just.

You ignored my post where I talked about the Spirituality of the Catholic Bishops. You believe a person can be infallibility and still a sinner. You said: You are confusing infallibility with impeccability”

He said this because you are confusing them:

Infallible

• incapable of error
• not liable to mislead, deceive, or disappoint
• incapable of error in defining doctrines touching faith or morals

Impeccable

• not capable of sinning or liable to sin
• free from fault or blame

As you can see, being infallible and impeccable are two completely different things. The Pope, when speaking ex cathedra, cannot be in error; but no one has ever said that any Pope was without sin, that’s just silly.

How can a person who is filled with the Holy Spirit, which means that person is a temple of God, be led by Satan? Can Satan live in the same house as God?

When a persons sins they are a slave of Satan. How can a slave of Satan lead a Christian Church?

What about the case of Peter [Mt 16:23]? He was definitely tempted by Satan, yet he was appointed the earthly head of the Church [Jn 21:15-17]. This is really a non-argument seeing as no one but Jesus and Mary were ever without sin (I’ve also heard people say John the Baptist was without sin . . . I’m not sure if that’s Catholic teaching though).

This is going to be an assumption (though not a very far leap) from what you said: I’m going to assume that you think the pastor of your church is without sin, am I right or wrong? This really cracks me up and frustrates me at the same time. People that think the way you do say that Mary cannot have been sinless because of Rom 3:23 but will make exceptions for their pastors . . . sheesh. :banghead:

To believe a Pope can do no damage to the faith and morals of the Church when they themselves are sinners is such a lie.

If Jesus thought that the Pope could do damage the Church in the realm of faith and morals, He would not have let Peter “bind and loose” such things on earth which are also bound in heaven. Read that last part again, and also in heaven. What Peter defines on faith and morals is bound in heaven and on earth, and Peter was obviously in sin, so there goes your argument.

 

[zach_dunn]

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this line of thinking?:whacky:

Nope, I’m right there with you on that one.

 

[zach_dunn]

Scripture tells us that Christians who know God are dead to sin. Now I don’t know of any denominational church that does teach that truth, the Catholic Church included.

It is statements like this that make me very angry. This comment absolutely reeks of arrogance. What makes you think that you are the sole person with the ability to interpret Scripture authoritatively?

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

Notice Paul was talking to Christians, but said they were still unspiritual. That, he said, was because of their sinning. So obviously they were not mature Christians. Now James was also talking to Christians who were not mature. Now notice in the following Scripture that the Christians who were being addressed were spiritually matures Christians.

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

By the way yes there are sins that don’t lead to death, they are human faults that are not serious offenses and are not deliberate or thought out. John says that all sins don’t lead to death. Everyone needs to understand that when a person is lead by the Holy Spirit they will not deliberately commit a sin, and if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit, and deliberately commits a sin, there is no redemption for that person.

(1 John 1:8-10) “If we say we have no sin in us, we are deceiving ourselves and refusing to admit the truth; but if we acknowledge our sins, then God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and purify us from everything that is wrong. To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”

You defeat this entire post with your last quotation:

1 John 1:8
“8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

You say that “true Christians” do not sin, well, do you think the Apostle John was a true Christian? He acknowledges that he has sin. This last quotation of yours essentially tells us that you do not know the truth and that it is not in you . . . to bad for you.

 

[Thankful10]

It is statements like this that make me very angry. This comment absolutely reeks of arrogance. What makes you think that you are the sole person with the ability to interpret Scripture authoritatively?

You defeat this entire post with your last quotation:

1 John 1:8
“8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

You say that “true Christians” do not sin, well, do you think the Apostle John was a true Christian? He acknowledges that he has sin. This last quotation of yours essentially tells us that you do not know the truth and that it is not in you . . . to bad for you.

You just showed how people read scripture the way he or she wants it to read. You see John said: “To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”Now confirmation of that is that John later said: “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You just showed how people read scripture the way he or she wants it to read. You see John said: “To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”Now confirmation of that is that John later said: “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Since you have stated most of your friends and family are Catholic, I wonder whether this is a family problem.

Has it occurred to you that they are right and it is you who are not only guilty of Pride, but are rejecting the Way, the Truth, and the Life?

(Not to mention bashing my beloved Holy Father).

 

[Thankful10]

Since you have stated most of your friends and family are Catholic, I wonder whether this is a family problem.

Has it occurred to you that they are right and it is you who are not only guilty of Pride, but are rejecting the Way, the Truth, and the Life?

(Not to mention bashing my beloved Holy Father).

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

 

[zach_dunn]

(Matthew 23:8-9) “You, however must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers. You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.”

Like we’ve never heard that one before . . . please.

 

[Thankful10]

Like we’ve never heard that one before . . . please.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

(Luke 8:21) “My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and put it into practice.”
(Luke 11:28) “He replied, ‘blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

 

[zach_dunn]

You just showed how people read scripture the way he or she wants it to read. You see John said: “To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”

That is verse 10. Verse 10 does indeed say that we’ve sinned in the past, but verse 8 says that we also sin now. Humans are incapable of never sinning, unless God intervenes as in the case of Mary. You just proved that you read the Bible the way you want to read it.

Now confirmation of that is that John later said: “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

You believe this is confirmation of your belief? You’ve just created a contradiction in your theology here because 1 Jn 1:8 says that we are always in sin. What does this verse mean then? Well, in Catholic theology, there are diffences between sin (mortal and venial), and in relation to this verse we would say that a person would not sin mortally. This is based on . . .

1 John 5:16-18
“16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. 18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”

Here, John is in effect saying that we sin, but we do not sin mortally if we are born of God. This is the true meaning of the passage, I would say.

 

[Thankful10]

That is verse 10. Verse 10 does indeed say that we’ve sinned in the past, but verse 8 says that we also sin now. Humans are incapable of never sinning, unless God intervenes as in the case of Mary. You just proved that you read the Bible the way you want to read it.

You believe this is confirmation of your belief? You’ve just created a contradiction in your theology here because 1 Jn 1:8 says that we are always in sin. What does this verse mean then? Well, in Catholic theology, there are diffences between sin (mortal and venial), and in relation to this verse we would say that a person would not sin mortally. This is based on . . .

1 John 5:16-18
“16 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal. 18 We know that any one born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.”

Here, John is in effect saying that we sin, but we do not sin mortally if we are born of God. This is the true meaning of the passage, I would say.

Now that you have added words to what John wrote, it would seem that one couldn’t use scripture to convince you of anything. John didn’t say mortal or venial. That is a Catholic teaching. Man decided what was a serious sin.
When John said: (1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.

Most likely he was talking about baby Christians as Paul wrote. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

I say that because then what John says in (1 John 3: 3 - 9) can be read without adding words to scripture.

Other scripture that confirms what I have been saying. (Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira. That was only a lie. Does the Catholic Church call a lie a mortal sin, a lie that just fudge on the amount of money that one got for selling their property?

Also do you really understand the following scriptures?

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

Let me explain something to you. When a person has the Holy Spirit leading him or her they are telling the Holy Spirit that they love Jesus. These people are then given the grace to never sin. If those people sin they are lying to the Holy Spirit, and there is no forgiveness for that.

 

[zach_dunn]

Now that you have added words to what John wrote, it would seem that one couldn’t use scripture to convince you of anything. John didn’t say mortal or venial. That is a Catholic teaching. Man decided what was a serious sin.
When John said: (1 John 5: 16) “If anybody sees his brother commit a sin that is not a deadly sin, he has only to pray, and God will give life to the sinner - not those who commit a deadly sin; for there is a sin that is death, and I will not say that you must pray about that. Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly.

Here you are officially grasping at straws. Mortal and deadly mean the exact same thing. Have you ever heard of the Seven Deadly Sins? Those are all mortal sins, mortal means deadly, they are synonyms. I have not added anything, and your quotation has not changed anything, it has the same meaning: we still sin if we are born of God, but we do not sin grievously.

Most likely he was talking about baby Christians as Paul wrote. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

I say that because then what John says in (1 John 3: 3 - 9) can be read without adding words to scripture.

What you commit here is called eisegesis. You’ve read the meaning of John talking to baby Christians into the text. When John uses “little children” in verse seven, he is not addressing them as baby Christians as Paul does. I would say it is simply a term of endearment. 1 John is a catholic letter; it is addressed to all of the faithful, not just beginners and not just the mature Christians. You are the one who is adding to Scripture and ignoring orthodox doctrines the Church has always held.

Other scripture that confirms what I have been saying. (Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira. That was only a lie. Does the Catholic Church call a lie a mortal sin, a lie that just fudge on the amount of money that one got for selling their property?

It would not be a mortal sin because it does not contain grave matter. How does this confirm what you’ve been saying? I don’t get it.

← continued in next post →

 

[zach_dunn]

← continued from previous post →

Also do you really understand the following scriptures?

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

I understand them, and I understand them in the whole context of the Bible. Here’s what Father Haydock has to say about these verses —

On Hebrews 6:4:

Ver. 4. . . . But others (whose interpretation seems preferable) expound this of baptism, which can only be given once. The words here in the text very much favour this exposition, when it is said, who were once enlightened. For baptism in the first ages was called the sacrament of illumination. See St. Denis de cælesti Hierar. chap. iv.; St. Gregory of Nazianzus; &c. The following words also agree with baptism, when they are said to have been made partakers of the Holy Ghost; to have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come; all which signify the interior graces, the miraculous gifts, and power of working miracles, which they who were baptized frequently received in those days. — They cannot be renewed again unto penance. That is, they cannot be renewed again by baptism, which is also called a renovation. (Titus iii. 5.) Their sins may indeed be forgiven them in the sacrament of penance, but this is not a renovation like that in baptism, in which both the guilt, and all pain due to past sins, is remitted; whereas in the sacrament of penance, though the guilt, and the eternal punishments due to sins be remitted, yet many times, temporal punishments, to be undergone either in this world or the next, still remain due to such as have been great sinners, to them who by relapsing into the same sins, have crucified again to themselves the Son of God, making a mockery of him; i.e. who, insensible of the favours received, have ungratefully renewed sin; to take away which Christ suffered, was mocked, crucified, &c.

On Hebrews 10:26, 28-29:

Ver. 26. If we sin wilfully. He speaks of the sin of wilful apostacy from the known truth; after which, as we cannot be baptized again, we cannot expect to have that abundant remission of sins, which Christ purchased by his death, applied to our souls in that ample manner as it is in baptism; but we have rather all manner of reason to look for a dreadful judgment; the more, because apostates from the know truth seldom or never have the grace to return to it. (Challoner)

Ver. 28-29. A man making void, &c. He brings this comparison from the manner that transgressors were dealt with under the law of Moses, to shew how much greater punishments Christians deserve when they are ungrateful to Christ after much greater benefits, when they may be said to have trodden under foot the Son of God by despising him, who was the author of their salvation, by shedding his blood upon the cross. (Witham) — What is here said of the crime of apostacy, may in some measure be applied to every deadly sin committed after baptism or the sacrament of penance; for a Christian by returning to sin, treads under foot the Son of God, despises the adorable blood by which he was sanctified, and offers a henious[heinous?] affront to the spirit of grace. Apostacy, though enormous, like all other sins can be forgiven by true repentance; but the apostle declares, there is no victim for the guilt of a person who perseveres and dies in apostacy.

These interpretations are more sound because they fit better with the whole of the Bible, obviously not contradicting 1 Jn 1:8 as your theology does.

← continued in next post →

 

[zach_dunn]

← continued from previous post →

Let me explain something to you. When a person has the Holy Spirit leading him or her they are telling the Holy Spirit that they love Jesus. These people are then given the grace to never sin. If those people sin they are lying to the Holy Spirit, and there is no forgiveness for that.

Well, I guess, in your theology, Paul will never be forgiven for his sin towards the Holy Spirit . . .

Romans 7:14-25
“14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. **15 **I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, 23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.”

As you can plainly see, Paul repeatedly admits that he is in sin. We also know, from the testimony of Scripture, that Paul received the Holy Spirit [Acts 9:17; 13:2, 9]. Why is it that he is in sin, then?

 

[Thankful10]

← continued from previous post →

Well, I guess, in your theology, Paul will never be forgiven for his sin towards the Holy Spirit . . .

Romans 7:14-25
“14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. **15 **I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. 21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, 23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.”

As you can plainly see, Paul repeatedly admits that he is in sin. We also know, from the testimony of Scripture, that Paul received the Holy Spirit [Acts 9:17; 13:2, 9]. Why is it that he is in sin, then?

Why haven’t you continued on in Romans? You need to understand that Paul was explaining to people that no matter how one tries to not sin it can’t be done. Then Paul goes on to tell people that they can have victory over Satan/sin by having the Holy Spirit residing in them.
(Romans 8:1-4) “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, **who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.” **

 

[momor]

Thankful10 it is clear to me that you believe the Holy Spirit talks to you and that you are receiving private revelations to interpret Scripture, including at least one unique interpretation that no other church is teaching.

You are not the first nor the last Protestant to believe this as evidenced by so many different denominations. How can the Holy Spirit be talking to the founders of all of these denominations when there are so many differences in interpretation of Scripture?

And if you say the others are mistaken, why would you think that your revelations are correct and the others are not?

 

[Thankful10]

Thankful10 it is clear to me that you believe the Holy Spirit talks to you and that you are receiving private revelations to interpret Scripture, including at least one unique interpretation that no other church is teaching.

You are not the first nor the last Protestant to believe this as evidenced by so many different denominations. How can the Holy Spirit be talking to the founders of all of these denominations when there are so many differences in interpretation of Scripture?

First I am not a Protestant. Next Jesus said: (John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice."

Each and every person who belongs to Jesus can hear his voice. That person’s responsibility is to follow Jesus. What anyone tells another should be taken to Jesus to see if it is right or wrong. We are to follow God not man.

 

[SunnaB16]

“We are to follow God, not man.”

Well said, Thankful10, and as Jesus is the Head of His mystical Body, the Catholic Church,
all Catholics would have to agree with you.
This is much better than following one`s own fallible interpretation of Scripture, etc, ie man.

 

[Thankful10]

“We are to follow God, not man.”

Well said, Thankful10, and as Jesus is the Head of His mystical Body, the Catholic Church,
all Catholics would have to agree with you.
This is much better than following one`s own fallible interpretation of Scripture, etc, ie man.

Do you truthfully not see that the only way you can know for sure that you are not following man is to have Jesus personally tell you? Why do you believe that the Roman Catholic Church is teaching the whole Word of God correctly? Is it not because man has taught you; that the Catholic Church is the one true Church?

By the way I am not saying that the Roman Catholic Church is not the one true Church. What I am saying is that the Church is not teaching what Jesus taught. The only way anyone can know for sure is to have Jesus explain the truth to him or her.