Jesus told us to be pacifists

[Thankful10]

Can you offer any proof that your ‘revelations’ are from Jesus, and not from your own pride, a devil, or your own good intentions?

I have already posted you scripture that proves what I say comes from God. If you won’t accept the Written Word of God as evidence of what I am sharing is from God, then there is nothing that can be said to prove anything.

Another thing; my job is not to convince anyone. My job is just to give a word.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I have already posted you scripture that proves what I say comes from God. If you won’t accept the Written Word of God as evidence of what I am sharing is from God, then there is nothing that can be said to prove anything.

Another thing; my job is not to convince anyone. My job is just to give a word.

Your posted scripture does not prove that your private revelation comes from God, but Happy New Year.

 

[zach_dunn]

One can learn to accept that Jesus is our savior from man, but only the Holy Spirit can teach us to know God.

So you believe that every Christian preacher (this includes all of the Catholic clergy) who have gone to seminary school really do not know anything about God?

 

[nsper7]

I have already posted you scripture that proves what I say comes from God. If you won’t accept the Written Word of God as evidence of what I am sharing is from God, then there is nothing that can be said to prove anything.

Another thing; my job is not to convince anyone. My job is just to give a word.

Good. You’ve given your “word”, now go peddle it somewhere else. I’m sure you’ll find a similar reception among any other Christian group.

EDIT: There really is little use arguing with people like Thankful10. They are not Catholic, so all the Church teachings out there won’t convince them. They suffer from Sola Scriptura Extremis, so even the words of other Protestants won’t do anything for them. They are so convinced of the infallibility of their interpretation, that no bits of logic or exegesis will convince them. The best bet therefore is just to let them be. It’s like if you have an infestation in your house: the best way to deal with it is to leave no food out for them to get.

 

[Thankful10]

So you believe that every Christian preacher (this includes all of the Catholic clergy) who have gone to seminary school really do not know anything about God?

**I personally believe that going to a Christian seminary is one of the most dangerous things a Christian can do.

Now I will answer your question. Man cannot teach some one to know God. Only the Holy Spirit can teach one to know God. If a person who goes to a seminary does come to know God, it did not happen because of anyone teaching the classes in the seminary.
Paul explains that: **

(1 Corinthians 2:716)”The hidden wisdom of God which we teach in our mysteries is the wisdom that God predestined to be for our glory before the ages began. It is a wisdom that none of the masters of this age have ever known, or they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, we teach what scripture called the things that no eye has seen and no ear has heard, things beyond the mind of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him. These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depths of everything, even the depths of God After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God: he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything, and his own value is not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[nsper7]

By the way, if you interpret Matthew 26:52 (“Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”) literally, it makes Jesus a liar. After all, there have been many careers soldiers and warriors who died by causes other than ‘the sword’ such as just old age, heart attacks, even accidents (I the great WW2 military leader Gen. George Patton died in a car accident shortly after the War in Europe was over).

By your reasoning, since Matthew 26:52 renders Jesus a liar or misinformed (two things the Son of God cannot be), then we should ignore Him because He cannot be the Son of God. Is that what you are trying to get at?

Explain why Matthew 26:52, if interpreted literalistically, is factually incorrect. Sure, there have been soldiers killed in battle, but many who were not killed, not even injured.

EDIT: Obviously, I am not saying Jesus is a liar or misinformed or denying His Divinity, but I am saying that taking the foolish and simplistic view that Thankful10 seems to operate under, it creates all sorts of nifty little contradictions and fallacies.

 

[Thankful10]

By the way, if you interpret Matthew 26:52 (“Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.”) literally, it makes Jesus a liar. After all, there have been many careers soldiers and warriors who died by causes other than ‘the sword’ such as just old age, heart attacks, even accidents (I the great WW2 military leader Gen. George Patton died in a car accident shortly after the War in Europe was over).

By your reasoning, since Matthew 26:52 renders Jesus a liar or misinformed (two things the Son of God cannot be), then we should ignore Him because He cannot be the Son of God. Is that what you are trying to get at?

Explain why Matthew 26:52, if interpreted literalistically, is factually incorrect. Sure, there have been soldiers killed in battle, but many who were not killed, not even injured.

EDIT: Obviously, I am not saying Jesus is a liar or misinformed or denying His Divinity, but I am saying that taking the foolish and simplistic view that Thankful10 seems to operate under, it creates all sorts of nifty little contradictions and fallacies.

Because you don’t understand what Jesus was saying when he told Peter: (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” You call him a liar?

There is more than one death. When a person deliberately disobeys God it can be a physical and or a spiritual death. You don’t know but the soldiers who didn’t die in battle may have died by the sword of Jesus. The Word is a two edged sword.

 

[Meunke]

Looks like Thankful is the exact type that I kept running into when I was looking at Pax Christi. See this thread for details: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=408986

He is his own little pope. He is his own little church. If a teaching doesn’t fit within his ideology, it must be thrown out. Why? Because HE is the sole decider of what is and is not the Word of God.

 

[nsper7]

Because you don’t understand what Jesus was saying when he told Peter: (Matthew 26:52) “Put your sword back, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” You call him a liar?

There is more than one death. When a person deliberately disobeys God it can be a physical and or a spiritual death. You don’t know but the soldiers who didn’t die in battle may have died by the sword of Jesus. The Word is a two edged sword.

I have little use for people like you. You come here with no interest in dialogue, but instead to spout off. Get it through your head: we are Catholic, we could care less what some undereducated bloviator with a Bible has to say when we have the Church with its myriad of Doctors and Saints to instruct us. So go peddle your stuff somewhere else. Your lack of (name removed by moderator)ut will not be missed.

There is one thing you said that I did find interesting though…

The World needs laws, and law enforcers. Christians are not of the word. Christians are in the world but not part of the world.

That makes it sound like you’d be the type that if your wife or daughter was being raped, you’d be more than happy to let the cops use force to rescue them, yet if you saw your neighbor’s wife or daughter being raped, you’d stand by and do nothing. You sicken me.

 

[Thankful10]

Looks like Thankful is the exact type that I kept running into when I was looking at Pax Christi. See this thread for details: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=408986

He is his own little pope. He is his own little church. If a teaching doesn’t fit within his ideology, it must be thrown out. Why? Because HE is the sole decider of what is and is not the Word of God.

If one can’t show that another person whom he or she disagrees with, is wrong using scripture; what can they do? Why belittle the person whom is making him or her doubt himself or herself.

Do your self a favor and try and show me I am wrong by using the Written Word of God.

 

[nsper7]

If one can’t show that another person whom he or she disagrees with, is wrong using scripture; what can they do? Why belittle the person whom is making him or her doubt himself or herself.

Do your self a favor and try and show me I am wrong by using the Written Word of God.

Well, shall we go through the Old Testament and look at where God authorized, even commanded, warfare? Also, as Catholics we rely on three sources of authority: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium (teaching authority of the Church).

If you want to argue Sola Scriptura, make another thread or, better yet, read some of the other threads on the issue–there are many.

 

[Meunke]

If one can’t show that another person whom he or she disagrees with, is wrong using scripture; what can they do? Why belittle the person whom is making him or her doubt himself or herself.

Do your self a favor and try and show me I am wrong by using the Written Word of God.

Sorry, I don’t accept your unspoken premise: “The written Bible is the sole rule of what is and is not true.”

BTW, nowhere in the Bible is it written that I have to use the Bible to prove you are wrong, pope thankful.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Good. You’ve given your “word”, now go peddle it somewhere else. I’m sure you’ll find a similar reception among any other Christian group.

EDIT: There really is little use arguing with people like Thankful10. They are not Catholic, so all the Church teachings out there won’t convince them. They suffer from Sola Scriptura Extremis, so even the words of other Protestants won’t do anything for them. They are so convinced of the infallibility of their interpretation, that no bits of logic or exegesis will convince them. The best bet therefore is just to let them be. It’s like if you have an infestation in your house: the best way to deal with it is to leave no food out for them to get.

Sola Scriptura Extremis. I like the phrase. May I borrow it now and then?

 

[nsper7]

Sola Scriptura Extremis. I like the phrase. May I borrow it now and then?

It’s actually not my phrase. I actually heard term coined by a Protestant apologist (technically, he attended a Baptist church, but he was more independent and surprisingly friendly regarding Catholicism although he obviously was not Catholic so he felt it theologically incorrect…his website contained a link here to Catholic Answers and started me on the journey home to Rome although I did not know it yet back then since I was still a happy/blissfully ignorant Protestant although I was getting attracted to Anglicanism…the link was on his website along with several other Pro-Catholic sites and several more intelligent Anti-Catholic [in terms of theology] site links because he did not like getting into discussions on the merits of Catholicism so he just left the links so people could read on their own and make their own decision on their view of Catholicism, whether positive or negative).

EDIT: In answer to your question, I don’t mind if you use the phrase.

 

[Thankful10]

Sorry, I don’t accept your unspoken premise: “The written Bible is the sole rule of what is and is not true.”

BTW, nowhere in the Bible is it written that I have to use the Bible to prove you are wrong, pope thankful.

The Bible is the Written Word of God, and any teaching that contradicts the Bible is of Satan.

Jesus said: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

Any teaching that contradicts the Written Word of God is evil.

 

[HisWill777]

The Bible is the Written Word of God, and any teaching that contradicts the Bible is of Satan.

Jesus said: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

Any teaching that contradicts the Written Word of God is evil.

Why do you even post? You don’t answer questions, you just quote the Bible. Other posters are correct, you can quote Scripture and twist it to fit almost any point of view. This is a favorite tactic of many cult leaders. Do you not think that Jesus and others did and said many important things outside of the Bible?? Your zeal for the Word is admirable, but there is more teaching out there. Would you have only listened to the written Law if you lived back in the OT and none of the prophets??

 

[Thankful10]

Why do you even post? You don’t answer questions, you just quote the Bible. Other posters are correct, you can quote Scripture and twist it to fit almost any point of view. This is a favorite tactic of many cult leaders. Do you not think that Jesus and others did and said many important things outside of the Bible?? Your zeal for the Word is admirable, but there is more teaching out there. Would you have only listened to the written Law if you lived back in the OT and none of the prophets??

You know I don’t know what God would have had me do if I lived before Jesus came.

I do know that the Bible is The Written Word of God and no teaching can contradict that Word.

The Holy Spirit had the Words that are in the Bible placed there for us, and Jesus said that the Words he spoke would be our judge on the last day.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

 

[zach_dunn]

You know I don’t know what God would have had me do if I lived before Jesus came.

I do know that the Bible is The Written Word of God and no teaching can contradict that Word.

The Holy Spirit had the Words that are in the Bible placed there for us, and Jesus said that the Words he spoke would be our judge on the last day.

(Matthew 7:21) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

And I’m sure you know that not everything Jesus spoke is written in the Bible, right?

 

[Meunke]

Any teaching that contradicts the Written Word of God is evil.

No, what you mean to say, along with your unspoken premise, is that any teaching that contradicts YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS is of Satan. That’s what you really mean.

I’m willing to bet you hold to the teaching of the Trinity too, but you’re going to have to drop that teaching. IT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE. You’re going to have to give up the idea that the Holy Spirit is also God, BECAUSE THAT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE EITHER. (You lifted these beliefs, if you have them, from the Catholic Church.)

There is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that lays out the teaching of the Trinity. Nor is there ANY verse that says the Holy Spirit is God. See? You believe plenty that isn’t in the Bible.

BTW, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole or sufficient rule of Faith. And let me stop you before you post 2 Tim 3:16, because it doesn’t say that the Bible is sole or sufficient. It says ‘scripture is profitable’, which it is, in the same way drinking water is profitable to my health, but drinking water is not the sole or sufficient thing I need to be healthy. BTW, the ‘scripture’ being mentioned here to Timothy is the Old Testament as that’s all that was declared ‘scripture’ at the time the Epistle was written (ie. today’s ‘Bible’ didn’t exist.)

Try reading scripture instead of reading your prejudices INTO it.

Assignment for you:

Give me the chapter and verse where the Bible defines the doctrine of the Trinity.

Give me the chapter and verse where the Bible state clearly that the Holy Spirit is God.

I await your next post, where you will try to avoid these questions.

 

[Thankful10]

No, what you mean to say, along with your unspoken premise, is that any teaching that contradicts YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS is of Satan. That’s what you really mean.

**(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.” **
**How can one Interpret the above verses any other way from what Jesus said? Also the early Church understood what Jesus said. The early Church did not allow for Christians to be in anyone’s army. **

I’m willing to bet you hold to the teaching of the Trinity too, but you’re going to have to drop that teaching. IT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE. You’re going to have to give up the idea that the Holy Spirit is also God, BECAUSE THAT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE EITHER. (You lifted these beliefs, if you have them, from the Catholic Church.)
If the Written Word of God said that the Holy Spirit was an angel then I would not believe in the Trinity

There is not a single verse anywhere in the Bible that lays out the teaching of the Trinity. Nor is there ANY verse that says the Holy Spirit is God. See? You believe plenty that isn’t in the Bible.

BTW, nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the sole or sufficient rule of Faith. And let me stop you before you post 2 Tim 3:16, because it doesn’t say that the Bible is sole or sufficient. It says ‘scripture is profitable’, which it is, in the same way drinking water is profitable to my health, but drinking water is not the sole or sufficient thing I need to be healthy. BTW, the ‘scripture’ being mentioned here to Timothy is the Old Testament as that’s all that was declared ‘scripture’ at the time the Epistle was written (ie. today’s ‘Bible’ didn’t exist.)You have made a judgment of me any obviously haven’t read all my post, or if you have chose to ignore what I wrote.

I never said that the Bible was: “the sole or sufficient rule of Faith” I say that no teaching can contradict the Written Word of God.

Try reading scripture instead of reading your prejudices INTO it.

Assignment for you:

Give me the chapter and verse where the Bible defines the doctrine of the Trinity.

Give me the chapter and verse where the Bible state clearly that the Holy Spirit is God.

I await your next post, where you will try to avoid these questions.

The Holy Spirit is one’s sole or sufficient rule of faith. The Written Word is just a check on any teaching from whatever source.