Jesus told us to be pacifists

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So what is the point of military Chaplains then. These are priest, pastors, rev. ect… What about all of the Christian soldier’s along with other faiths fighting wars as we type? Are all these people not saved and false because of what there vocations given to them by God are. Give me a break:rolleyes:

p.s. If God is a pacifist look at the apocalypse. Does the final battle sound like a pacifist to you
They’re not really Christians.
 
What a surprise, reading meanings into the text. You have no reason to think Cornelius ever left the army, no reason at all. Now you are just making stuff up to make your theology work.
Do you know that he didn’t? Don’t you think people followed Jesus’ teachings?
 
So what is the point of military Chaplains then. These are priest, pastors, rev. ect… What about all of the Christian soldier’s along with other faiths fighting wars as we type? Are all these people not saved and false because of what there vocations given to them by God are. Give me a break:rolleyes:

p.s. If God is a pacifist look at the apocalypse. Does the final battle sound like a pacifist to you
God has every right to do, as he wants. He did not give us the right to kill.

I believe that the Church fell apart after Constantine was allowed to make up his army with Christians. The Church no longer obeyed God.

The History of the Church shows that to be true.
 
God has every right to do, as he wants. He did not give us the right to kill.
He did not give us the right to murder, but under certain circumstances, we are allowed to kill. You need to read your Old Testament a bit more…
 
God has every right to do, as he wants. He did not give us the right to kill.

I believe that the Church fell apart after Constantine was allowed to make up his army with Christians. The Church no longer obeyed God.

The History of the Church shows that to be true.
Yes God can do as he will we are his creation. No the proper translation is to murder. There is a distinct difference. The Church did not fall apart. That is a sad opinion that you hold. How does history show this? I follow the Church founded by Christ. I would love to see a illustration how we do not obey God.
 
The Holy Spirit/Jesus has used many methods to communicate with me. He has spoken to me through the gift of knowledge, prophesy, tongues and the interpretation of tongues, spoken to me with words mentally, visions, touch, and audible. Jesus has audibly called me by name. Scripture tells us that his people he will call by name.

(John 10:1-5)“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.”
Here is why I demanded to know which passages in scripture talk about the Trinity and the Divinity of the Holy Spirit, Because above you said “You see I don’t believe anything about God that is told to me by man unless Jesus tells me it is true.”. So if you didn’t get it from the word of God in Scripture, you are claiming to have special Divine revelation directly from God, and your basis for this is… because you say so.

And since you deny the Eucharist, you are admitting that you do NOT do what the Word of God commands, ie, eat His Flesh. No doubt you will say you don’t do this because you get a special message from God saying you shouldn’t do it. But I do recall in Scripture that there were some passages about testing spirits to see if they were of God or not, by seeing if what they said went against His Word. So, to recap, your special, personal divine revelation told you that, contrary to the Scripture, you DON’T have to eat the Flesh of the Son of Man.

You claim to be a divinely inspired prophet who has, based on your other comments, the ability to infallibly interperate Scripture (a charism that all the Protestants who disagree with you claim as well, but we’ll let that slide for a moment.)

You claim all of this, and many of your teachings, especially the ones you assume (which books are to be in the Bible, etc.) you claim are bearing on all men and your reason for this is… because you say you’re a prophet and the mouthpiece of God (yes, that IS what you are claiming). And we must believe you because… you say so. That’s the only proof you have.

David Koresh said the same thing, and he had about as much authority to his ‘you must believe me’ command as you do.

That’s the difference between you and us. You shriek that we must believe your special divine revelation and interpretation because you claim to be a prophet. That’s your only reason. You can’t even say ‘because scripture says so’, because you have already admitted that many of your beliefs can’t even be found there.

So, to recap, you basically saw this in Scipture, the WORD OF GOD:

John 6 - 53: Then Jesus said to them: "Amen, amen, I say unto you: unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will raise him up in the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

And then you replied, with all the others:

“This saying is hard; and who can hear it?”

And you walked no more with him.

And yet you demand that we recognize that you are an inspired prophet, based only on your own words. Sorry friend, not buyin’ it.

Of course, the fact that you are also illogical, unhistorical and unbiblical doesn’t help either. I’m done with you now.
 
God has every right to do, as he wants. He did not give us the right to kill.

I believe that the Church fell apart after Constantine was allowed to make up his army with Christians. The Church no longer obeyed God.

The History of the Church shows that to be true.
You really shouldn’t try to use history unless you have at least a basic knowledge of it, something you have already demonstrated you lack entirely.
 
Yes God can do as he will we are his creation. No the proper translation is to murder. There is a distinct difference. The Church did not fall apart. That is a sad opinion that you hold. How does history show this? I follow the Church founded by Christ. I would love to see a illustration how we do not obey God.
You want to justify killing by saying murder. Neither one is justified. Jesus told us: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

We are not to offer a wicked man any resistance.

The world needs laws and law enforcers. Christians are not of the world, and don’t need laws or law enforcers.

Jesus personally taught me that we are not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason.

Read up on the churches history. Especially when the Vatican moved to France. Why do you think the Reformation came about.
 
You want to justify killing by saying murder. Neither one is justified. Jesus told us: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

We are not to offer a wicked man any resistance.

The world needs laws and law enforcers. Christians are not of the world, and don’t need laws or law enforcers.

Jesus personally taught me that we are not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason.

Read up on the churches history. Especially when the Vatican moved to France. Why do you think the Reformation came about.
This is from the CCC on military service and defending ones self.

III. SAFEGUARDING PEACE

Peace

2302 By recalling the commandment, "You shall not kill,"94 our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral.

Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution "to correct vices and maintain justice."95 If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, "Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment."96

2303 Deliberate hatred is contrary to charity. Hatred of the neighbor is a sin when one deliberately wishes him evil. Hatred of the neighbor is a grave sin when one deliberately desires him grave harm. "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven."97

2304 Respect for and development of human life require peace. Peace is not merely the absence of war, and it is not limited to maintaining a balance of powers between adversaries. Peace cannot be attained on earth without safeguarding the goods of persons, free communication among men, respect for the dignity of persons and peoples, and the assiduous practice of fraternity. Peace is "the tranquillity of order."98 Peace is the work of justice and the effect of charity.99

2305 Earthly peace is the image and fruit of the peace of Christ, the messianic "Prince of Peace."100 By the blood of his Cross, "in his own person he killed the hostility,"101 he reconciled men with God and made his Church the sacrament of the unity of the human race and of its union with God. "He is our peace."102 He has declared: "Blessed are the peacemakers."103

2306 Those who renounce violence and bloodshed and, in order to safeguard human rights, make use of those means of defense available to the weakest, bear witness to evangelical charity, provided they do so without harming the rights and obligations of other men and societies. They bear legitimate witness to the gravity of the physical and moral risks of recourse to violence, with all its destruction and death.104

continued below
 
Avoiding war

2307 The fifth commandment forbids the intentional destruction of human life. Because of the evils and injustices that accompany all war, the Church insistently urges everyone to prayer and to action so that the divine Goodness may free us from the ancient bondage of war.105

2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.

However, "as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed."106

2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

2310 Public authorities, in this case, have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations necessary for national defense.

Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.107

2311 Public authorities should make equitable provision for those who for reasons of conscience refuse to bear arms; these are nonetheless obliged to serve the human community in some other way.108

2312 The Church and human reason both assert the permanent validity of the moral law during armed conflict. "The mere fact that war has regrettably broken out does not mean that everything becomes licit between the warring parties."109

2313 Non-combatants, wounded soldiers, and prisoners must be respected and treated humanely.

Actions deliberately contrary to the law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes, as are the orders that command such actions. Blind obedience does not suffice to excuse those who carry them out. Thus the extermination of a people, nation, or ethnic minority must be condemned as a mortal sin. One is morally bound to resist orders that command genocide.

2314 "Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation."110 A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.

2315 The accumulation of arms strikes many as a paradoxically suitable way of deterring potential adversaries from war. They see it as the most effective means of ensuring peace among nations. This method of deterrence gives rise to strong moral reservations. The arms race does not ensure peace. Far from eliminating the causes of war, it risks aggravating them. Spending enormous sums to produce ever new types of weapons impedes efforts to aid needy populations;111 it thwarts the development of peoples. Over-armament multiplies reasons for conflict and increases the danger of escalation.

2316 The production and the sale of arms affect the common good of nations and of the international community. Hence public authorities have the right and duty to regulate them. The short-term pursuit of private or collective interests cannot legitimate undertakings that promote violence and conflict among nations and compromise the international juridical order.

2317 Injustice, excessive economic or social inequalities, envy, distrust, and pride raging among men and nations constantly threaten peace and cause wars. Everything done to overcome these disorders contributes to building up peace and avoiding war:

Insofar as men are sinners, the threat of war hangs over them and will so continue until Christ comes again; but insofar as they can vanquish sin by coming together in charity, violence itself will be vanquished and these words will be fulfilled: "they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."112

continued below
 
IN BRIEF

2318 “In [God’s] hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind” (Job 12:10).

2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.

2320 The murder of a human being is gravely contrary to the dignity of the person and the holiness of the Creator.

2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good.

2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

2323 Because it should be treated as a person from conception, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed like every other human being.

2324 Intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.

2326 Scandal is a grave offense when by deed or omission it deliberately leads others to sin gravely.

2327 Because of the evils and injustices that all war brings with it, we must do everything reasonably possible to avoid it. The Church prays: “From famine, pestilence, and war, O Lord, deliver us.”

2328 The Church and human reason assert the permanent validity of the moral law during armed conflicts. Practices deliberately contrary to the law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes.

2329 “The arms race is one of the greatest curses on the human race and the harm it inflicts on the poor is more than can be endured” (GS 81 § 3).

2330 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God” (Mt 5:9)
 
Thanks to Thankful for continuing to strengthen my ties to Holy Mother Church.
 
IN BRIEF

2318 “In [God’s] hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of all mankind” (Job 12:10).

2319 Every human life, from the moment of conception until death, is sacred because the human person has been willed for its own sake in the image and likeness of the living and holy God.

2320 The murder of a human being is gravely contrary to the dignity of the person and the holiness of the Creator.

2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good.

2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a “criminal” practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.

2323 Because it should be treated as a person from conception, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed like every other human being.

2324 Intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.

2326 Scandal is a grave offense when by deed or omission it deliberately leads others to sin gravely.

2327 Because of the evils and injustices that all war brings with it, we must do everything reasonably possible to avoid it. The Church prays: “From famine, pestilence, and war, O Lord, deliver us.”

2328 The Church and human reason assert the permanent validity of the moral law during armed conflicts. Practices deliberately contrary to the law of nations and to its universal principles are crimes.

2329 “The arms race is one of the greatest curses on the human race and the harm it inflicts on the poor is more than can be endured” (GS 81 § 3).

2330 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God” (Mt 5:9)
All of that is just a smoke screen trying to hide the fact that that serving in the army is allowed. Another words killings are allowed.

(1 Corinthians 3:16 –17) “Didn’t you realize that you were God’s temple and that the Spirit of God was living among you? If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy him, because the temple of God is sacred; and you are that temple.”

Do you realize that the War in which most everyone feels was justified that there were Christians Killing Christians. Like Paul said: “If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy him, because the temple of God is sacred; and you are that temple.”
 
Your attitude is like spitting upon the heroic blood sacrifice of countless good Christian soldiers, who paid for your comforts and right to complain with their very lives.
 
(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”
Jesus also said, If you don’t have a sword then get one. Nor did He ever tell soldiers that it was wrong, in fact the first gentile convert was a Roman soldier.
 
All of that is just a smoke screen trying to hide the fact that that serving in the army is allowed. Another words killings are allowed.

(1 Corinthians 3:16 –17) “Didn’t you realize that you were God’s temple and that the Spirit of God was living among you? If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy him, because the temple of God is sacred; and you are that temple.”

Do you realize that the War in which most everyone feels was justified that there were Christians Killing Christians. Like Paul said: “If anybody should destroy the temple of God, God will destroy him, because the temple of God is sacred; and you are that temple.”
And who do you think gave you the freedom to complain and rant that serving as a soldier is wrong. The soldier’s did. If it was not for soldiers Christian or not you would be a proud practicer of Islam starting from around the time of the reformation. Just wars do have there place.

Look at the wars/Battles of the OT. The Israelites went to war and fought as God commanded. This took place after the handing down of the ten commandments. So does God contradict him self when he sends them off to wage war. Do you think that know one died in the battle of Jericho or how bout when the Israelites fought and won when Moses held his staff high and would start to loose the battle when the staff would drop. Did not one person die in these battles. Then by your fallible interpretation God does contradict himself. :eek:
 
And who do you think gave you the freedom to complain and rant that serving as a soldier is wrong. The soldier’s did. If it was not for soldiers Christian or not you would be a proud practicer of Islam starting from around the time of the reformation. Just wars do have there place.

Look at the wars/Battles of the OT. The Israelites went to war and fought as God commanded. This took place after the handing down of the ten commandments. So does God contradict him self when he sends them off to wage war. Do you think that know one died in the battle of Jericho or how bout when the Israelites fought and won when Moses held his staff high and would start to loose the battle when the staff would drop. Did not one person die in these battles. Then by your fallible interpretation God does contradict himself. :eek:
I’d also like to add Malachi 3:6:

“For I the LORD do not change . . .”

If He allowed just wars in the OT, He allows them now; also, since Jesus is God, He allows them now too! :eek:
 
How hard is it to grasp the command of our Savior-“Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and love your neighbor as yourself”. Everything else doesn’t matter- the little peeves and nuances that each sect sets out to justify their existance. I work with people who change chuches almost yearly because they don’t totally agree with what their “pastor” says. The “pastor” in question is usually someone who decides he knows the answers and opens a “Baptist” church. We evangelize but they are so biased by what they heard from their now disgraced “pastor” about Catholicism they can’t even think to investigate the true meaning of Jesus.
 
Judges 21:25
In those days there was no king in Israel; eveyone did what he thought best.

What does this mean?

God was supposed to be King of Israel but the people rejectd him, so he gave them a king as they asked- Saul. That turned out really well didn’t it? Whenever we ask God to make our lives better by what we want we tend to lose. Whenever we ask God to give us the strength to see our hardships through we usually are on the winning side along with God.
 
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