Jesus using first and third person

[Magnum_V8]

First, let me apologize in advance if you find this question totally senseless and insignificant.

When Jesus was talking about His forthcoming suffering, did He always refer to Himself in the third person, i.e. the Son of Man? Did He ever use the first person when speaking about it?

Any other time in which He referenced Himself in the first person, is it safe to say that He was speaking for the Godhead, the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

If you want to know why I’m asking this question, let me know.

 

[NotWorthy]

First, let me apologize in advance if you find this question totally senseless and insignificant.

When Jesus was talking about His forthcoming suffering, did He always refer to Himself in the third person, i.e. the Son of Man? Did He ever use the first person when speaking about it?

Offhand, I don’t know of any. Why did He do this? I think it accomplishes two things:

1. It links Him with the “Son of Man” figure in Daniel, whom Jews knew was a Messianic prophecy.
2. It links His Death with this Messianic “Glory” that Daniel shows in his prophecy.

Any other time in which He referenced Himself in the first person, is it safe to say that He was speaking for the Godhead, the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

No, “Father, may I be one in you, as you are in me”, is one glaring example.

If you want to know why I’m asking this question, let me know.

OK, I’ll bite. Why are you asking?

 

[epostle]

Matthew 16:21
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

I think Jesus didn’t always refer to himself in theological titles.

 

[Magnum_V8]

Why are you asking?

I was debating with a Seventh-day Adventist about Jesus telling the thief that “today you’ll be with Me in Paradise.” The argument was about if both body and soul stay in the grave until Jesus’ return. Of course, we Catholics say the soul continues on while the body stays behind, and the SDA’s say both body and soul remain in the grave.

He said that since Jesus did not go into Heaven at that time, how could the thief’s soul have went into Heaven? He added that Jesus did not mean that on that very day the thief would be in Heaven; Jesus just meant that He was telling him today, e.g., I tell you today, you will be with Me in Paradise [when I return to lift you up].

I responded by saying that since Jesus is God, God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Jesus referred to the “Father in Heaven” many times, and Jesus said “I and the Father are One”, then it proves that Jesus did mean “on this very day.”

He then responded that because Jesus used the personal pronoun “me”, it means Jesus was not referring to the Godhead.

So after all this I was thinking about a way to prove it in other terms, and I thought that maybe Jesus only referred to Himself as the “Son of Man” when referring to things that ONLY the Son of Man was sent to do; such as, the Father and the Holy Spirit were not made Flesh in order to suffer and be crucified, thus, Jesus did not speak in the first person when referring to things of this nature.

But then I got to wondering, “how did Jesus use the words “I” and “Me”? Were “I” and “Me” only used when Jesus spoke of things that included — or COULD include — the entire Trinity?”

Sorry, it probably sounds like I’m way over-thinking such a petty issue. This is why I didn’t post the “why I was asking” in the first post. Sorry for the length…if you even made it this far.

 

[Magnum_V8]

Matthew 16:21
From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.

Thanks for the post, epostle. But its not really a quote from Jesus. I was looking more for an actual saying of Jesus that included the words “I” or “me.” I read that passage as more of a report than a quote…the author is talking about Jesus.

 

[Gill79]

Any other time in which He referenced Himself in the first person, is it safe to say that He was speaking for the Godhead, the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

can u explain more exmaples?

 

[Gill79]

He said that since Jesus did not go into Heaven at that time, how could the thief’s soul have went into Heaven? He added that Jesus did not mean that on that very day the thief would be in Heaven; Jesus just meant that He was telling him today, e.g., I tell you today, you will be with Me in Paradise [when I return to lift you up].

Thief went with Jesus to Hell (orgin Greek Paradise)

old Testment leading till right up to Jesus`s resscurtion. saints was imprison in Arabham Bossom. as Jesus gone down to Hell to preach to jailed spirits some fallen angels charged with folly the ones who caused conquence as result world flooding of Noah (escpailly charged with folly as these fallen spirist across the line from their demonation to our demonation (angels sons of God married women of earth in Gensis) unlike all demons so they only ones by this sin are forever jailed till end time amroggadom they let loose for a time.

In peter i think… said Jesus must decrease to hell before ascend to heaven … in that act (thief just saved same as OT saints) teachers pastors priests etc was free by Christ who …“lead them on high and they recive gifts for their works”

that man contridy himself saying. Jesus on his cross this day u will be with me (man view) heaven. yet will return with you thief on third day. when jesus said today mean literually today as soon dead to paradise hades
I said to you, Today you will be with me.

my words. I not sure of other versions of bibles but im sure they all the same Comma begin with I said to you, not after today says it all. if u intrested of verses for what i said I can put on here. but as this catholicversion It be only KJV i using as it only bible I got (used to have other versions) u can use your version any version is fine. see where comma is in yours maybe it there just as it is or not I dont know. anyway the comma certainly to clarfiy exalt what Jesus meant.

Gill

 

[s4angel]

Thanks for the post, epostle. But its not really a quote from Jesus. I was looking more for an actual saying of Jesus that included the words “I” or “me.” I read that passage as more of a report than a quote…the author is talking about Jesus.

not my will but your will be done. Jesus christ was praying when he said this just before he was arrested. I hope this helps

 

[Gill79]

Any other time in which He referenced Himself in the first person, is it safe to say that He was speaking for the Godhead, the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

I that sure make me think.but i think it safe to say aumtomically whatever Jesus said I or me also refer Father and Holy Spirit

in nature of divine diety morals aurithy and abilty to forgive.

but it should be always read in context keeping in mind of their roles differance bodily but spiritally three always as one.

that help? Gill

 

[Magnum_V8]

Any other time in which He referenced Himself in the first person, is it safe to say that He was speaking for the Godhead, the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

can u explain more exmaples?

Well, I’m searching for the examples myself; that’s why I posted on here. Is there any time that Jesus used the word “I” or “Me” to refer to something ONLY concerning the Son?

I know that He said, “I and the Father are One.” But did He ever separate Himself from the Father and Holy Spirit? When He talked about the Son of Man having to suffer, it was solely about the Son – the Father/Holy Spirit did not suffer. Hope I’m not confusing you.

 

[NotWorthy]

How about all the “I AM” statements of John’s Gospel.
“Do not be afraid. It is I”
“I am the good shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me”.
“I am the vine, and you are the branches”.

 

[Magnum_V8]

No need to continue the conversation, I found a clear answer to my question…and it disproves what I was thinking.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father.”

He separated Himself from the Father using the word “I”…so my argument won’t work…not that we are wrong anyway, about the soul moving on after death.

 

[Gill79]

I know that He said, “I and the Father are One.” But did He ever separate Himself from the Father and Holy Spirit? When He talked about the Son of Man having to suffer, it was solely about the Son – the Father/Holy Spirit did not suffer. Hope I’m not confusing you.

that okay i beginning to understand.

Jesus face temptions like all man. fear and everything when jesus talk about suffering it def about him as he mean suffering bodily on cross, going to hell
but also first time what worse then bodily is as Jesus so aware will have to suffer Father (and Holy Ghost) to turn His back on Jesus while he baring our sins. no doubt spirital sense suffering much worse then bodily for him two kind of suffering he ever experinced only the once.
Father Holy Ghost of course are at pains same as Jesus in spriital sense but only Jesus suffer bodily at hands of men as he can show by his hands, this way God demonstarte his love for us having send his only begotten son to world to die for us.(FATHER send SON for OUR sake that love!)

Holy spirit can go out or go any sinners. Jesus shown at times he himself limit holy spirit glory when times nesscury. like on hill with Peter James John in all his glory(holy spirit manfestion to full) angel sometime in all glory, some are not. moses face shine in it glory. that all holy spirit work as he the seed and manifest, holy spirit can increase and decrease by God when needed. or man fall sins again gone out from man etc

son of man to suffer Jesus refering himself (talking to his discpiles) father jesus spirit dont want it to happen but it inevidint

but obvious father suffer real grief at having to send his son only son who innocent to be killed cruelty in hands of men and demons.

naturelly Jesus would pray and in deep fear knowing what coming and experices fears of man cried out if other way for him to drink suffering( fear talk) but( wisely for love of man ) let your will be done. doesnt mean he sudden disagree. prayer show what he in 3 agree at beginning of mankind mission still are. he just expressing these words soley only out of fear. but the context are still going strong go through with it as planned.

Gill