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TheTrinitySaves
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Is Jesus the same entity that spoke to Moses, Abraham and the old testament prophets?
Who gets the final say in Heaven? Jesus or God?
Who gets the final say in Heaven? Jesus or God?
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LilyM
Guest
Jesus Himself said “before Abraham was, I am”. Sounds to me like the same entity. He and the Father are, as we say in the Creed, “consubstantial” - of the same substance.
What gives you the impression that either Jesus or the Father ever needs a “final say” in heaven? They are one - two of the three-in-one. Why would they not also be of one mind and one will?
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youngsterat16
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Well God the father, God the Son, and God the Spirit has always been and will always be. But in a way they are all the same person, so the 3 persons are of one God who spoke to Abraham and Moses. But Jesus also hadn’t been born yet as human, but he as God the Son has always been. It’s a mysterious concept indeed. But if you mean Jesus as we know him dying on the cross and resurrecting, I’d say not quite since He had not done those things in their time. But being he is the Son and the Son is a person of God and that it was God who spoke to them- so yes. Yes Jesus was the same entity.
What do you mean by final say?
I mean, I am pretty sure They both do. They are both the same God. There isn’t one that over rules the other or anything. It’s not like one will say so and so goes to hell (i think that is what you mean by final say) and the other will say, no he’s going to heaven and that’s that. They both just do because they are not separate. They are the same God. I don’t think it’s even correct to refer to them as “they” but as “He” when you really think about it. I believe I have the right idea in all of this. If not someone can correct me.
even if thats not what you meant and you just mean in general, I think it all still applies.
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adamhovey1988
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The father and the son (and I am paraphrasing) as the Athanasian Creed says are “co-eternal in majesty”. Jesus has always been. Now, don’t get that confused with modalism.
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RPRPsych
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Arian or Nestorian alert! 
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Wesrock
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Some Church Fathers believe the Son was present in the Old Testament. God spoke to create; God the Father created through the Word. The Son/Word visited Abraham regarding the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Word was used to inscribe the Ten Commandments on stone, the Word spoke through the burning bush to Moses. All discissed by the Fathers, though the Creation account is the only one more explicitly attested to in scripture, I believe. Still, the Word was present and acting, even if the nature of the Trinity was not yet revealed.
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1ke
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Jesus is God.
As I recommended on your other thread, get the book Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed ASAP.
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hazcompat
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Jesus is God!
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Peae
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thistle
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JESUS IS GOD!! There is only one God.
As a Catholic how can you not know this?
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Lenten_ashes
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He’s struggling with the idea of the Trinity.
There are verses that really highlight Jesus humanity and if you are not well grounded in the faith, they can be confusing.
Be patient with him
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thistle
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The OP’s profile says Catholic yet if you see all the threads he/she has started you could get the impression they know nothing about the Church and Christianity. Frankly, all the threads have been nonsensical.He’s struggling with the idea of the Trinity.
There are verses that really highlight Jesus humanity and if you are not well grounded in the faith, they can be confusing.
Be patient with him
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TheTrinitySaves
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A bit rude, but I can take it.
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TheTrinitySaves
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I was simply inquiring about biblical evidence that may suggest otherwise and asking for the correct interpetation on it since I did not know.
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PluniaZ
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Did you read the Saint Augustine link I gave you in your Trinity thread?
standingonshoulders.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/augustine-sermon-52.pdf
standingonshoulders.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/augustine-sermon-52.pdf
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Goya
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First, there is no ‘final say’ in so much as such would suggest a conflict of ‘say’. The 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are bound in and with a singular Holy Will, which is what makes them (3 distinct Persons) One God. Hence there can be no conflict of Will(s), because the share the exact same, singular Holy Will.
Second, the Trinity is not a simple topic, no matter how hard one seeks to simplify it (e.g.–St. Patrick’s clover). To simplify it–or rather, to simplify one’s understanding of the Trinity–is simply to assent to a great mystery.
Third, if you want to get a taste of how dizzying it can be, roll your sleeves up, clear your calendar, and cozy up to St. Augustine’s On the Trinity. Here is a sampling:
I spent some years in writing fifteen books concerning the Trinity, which is God. When, however, I had not yet finished the thirteenth Book, and some who were exceedingly anxious to have the work were kept waiting longer than they could bear, it was stolen from me in a less correct state than it either could or would have been had it appeared when I intended. And as soon as I discovered this, having other copies of it, I had determined at first not to publish it myself, but to mention what had happened in the matter in some other work; but at the urgent request of brethren, whom I could not refuse, I corrected it as much as I thought fit, and finished and published it, with the addition, at the beginning, of a letter that I had written to the venerable Aurelius, Bishop of Carthage, in which I set forth, in the way of prologue, what had happened, what I had intended to do of myself, and what love of my brethren had forced me to do.*
…and you can access the book here:
newadvent.org/fathers/1301.htm
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thistle
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It is an INFALLIBLE TEACHING of the Church which ALL Catholics MUST BELIEVE.
You don’t need an interpretation.
CCC 202 Jesus himself affirms that God is “the one Lord” whom you must love “with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength”.At the same time Jesus gives us to understand that he himself is “the Lord”. To confess that Jesus is Lord is distinctive of Christian faith. This is not contrary to belief in the One God. Nor does believing in the Holy Spirit as “Lord and giver of life” introduce any division into the One God:
We firmly believe and confess without reservation that there is only one true God, eternal infinite (immensus) and unchangeable, incomprehensible, almighty and ineffable, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit; three persons indeed, but one essence, substance or nature entirely simple.
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hu324b
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The trinity - God the father - Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all of the same will - there would be no conflict.
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pacloc
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Jesus, being the Word of God, it is likely that it was in fact the pre-incarnate Word of God who had all the dealings with the Holy Patriarchs and Prophets. St. Irenaeus finds God’s dealings in the Garden as a foreshadowing of the Incarnation, how God walked and talked with Adam. He taught that it was in fact the Word of God that walked and talked to man in the Old Testament.
As for the final say, it is God, the Holy Trinity. When scripture talks of Jesus submitting all things back to the Father, He is emphasizing that his task of saving humanity by becoming human has been accomplished, we should view Him with the same reverence with which we viewed Him before his humbling, not thinking low of Him, just because He chose to become lowly for our sake, but with even more love and fear of separation.
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Peebo
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I can understand your confusion if you are perhaps thinking of a verse in Matt:24 where Jesus was asked when the end will be…he answered that “no one knows the day nor the hour…neither the angels…nor the son… but the father alone knows”…now I’m not a biblical scholar so I don’t know the correct interpretation but I think it’s because Jesus had both divine and human nature…in Luke: 2 it also says that “Jesus grew in wisdom and stature”…so maybe he didn’t know at that time…although after the resurrection he returned to his father so is now fully aware when he will return as he is God the Son…hopefully someone here will be able to explain better than me…and yes…God the Father…God the Son…and God the Holy Spirit are one…and equal.
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NM505StKate
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I don’t believe so. Yahweh is vastly different than Yeshua.
I would say arguing with oneself is a sign of not being mentally stable. LOL
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