Jesus Wants Gays to Be Happy

  • Thread starter Thread starter buffalo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
If only Catholics would comport themselves as Jesus did when he “admonished” prostitutes and homosexuals!

It amazes me the kind of mental gymnastics some people will do to try to get around the simple fact that Jesus commanded us to love one another, no exceptions! No sin is bad enough to warrant a lack of compassion.

If you want to admonish a sinner, go ahead. Just make sure you do it the same way Jesus did. He was kind and accepting of all sinners, never made a sinner feel unwelcome. Jesus tolerated all.

But there was one kind of sinner Jesus did get stern with, a special type of sin that needed a special type of treatment. Sexual sinners, prostitutes, adulterers, homosexuals, Jesus was kind and accepting to all manner of sin but the sin of judgmentalism and hypocrisy met with His sternest admonishment. He said to judge not lest ye be judged. There is no lawyer’s loophole around it.

The judgmental hypocrites are truly the worst type of all the sinners, since they are in the most spiritually precarious possible situation: they think their sin is virtue, so it is impossible to repent. Jesus was all smiles when it came to homosexuals and all types of sexual sinners, because this is how you get a sexual sinner to come around. You don’t pass judgment, you offer help.

But a spiritual hypocrite thinks he’s got it all figured out. They think their prejudices are tantamount to God’s law, and they look down their noses with a holier-than-thou attitude at people like homosexuals. They forget that Jesus was nothing but kind to homosexuals, and they treat homosexuals with disdain while professing to want to help them.

These are the people who are walking a razor’s edge of mortal sin, and they don’t even know it!

We should rebuke these people as sternly as possible, for their own good!
I agree that compassion is warranted and that all sin should be treated as sin. However, that is not an excuse to ignore it. I also agree that anyone who is considering speaking out should perform an examination of conscience to be sure that they do so for the right reasons and from a place of love rather than pride.

Going back to the title of the thread, yes I do believe Jesus wants those with same sex attraction to be happy, as he wants all of us to be happy. However, our true happiness will only exist when we are in heaven, our true home.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-stresses-need-for-fraternal-correction-in-christian-life/
 
Any sort of disordered sex is an intrinsic evil. I suppose technically speaking an act of sex that allows for the possibility of life is not an “intrinsic evil” even if out of wedlock, because the nature of sex open to life is not an intrinsic evil.

But certainly sex that is not open to life, gay or straight, is an intrinsic evil. Do you want me to look up the Catechism on that, or can we agree on that?
Well, if you want to get specific not all mortal sins are of the same gravity. That is in the CCC. As for this homsexual topic the last Pope called so-called homosexual marriage a new ideology of evil. That does not mean heterosexual acts that are sinful should be condoned. It does mean that at this time in history we have an obligation to oppose such things.
 
We are to love the sinner and hate the sin. We are to work towards the salvation of all. To advocate intrinsically evil acts is not what Jesus did or expects us to do.

I think a rereading of the NT is in order. Jesus had no problem confronting sin and sinners.
Honestly, I’d like to at least see consistency in the way Catholics attack these intrinsic evils. Contraception is given a wink and a nudge by most Catholics. So are unmarried cohabiting couples.

I don’t hear a constant drumbeat of moral outrage at the skyrocketing numbers of unmarried cohabiting couples. But it’s every bit as sinful as homosexuality.

So the problem isn’t that sin is being opposed. That is a good thing.

The problem is that a certain type of sin, namely homosexuality, is being oppose disproportionately to other types of equivalent sin, like unmarried cohabitation, or condom usage.
 
Honestly, I’d like to at least see consistency in the way Catholics attack these intrinsic evils. Contraception is given a wink and a nudge by most Catholics. So are unmarried cohabiting couples.

I don’t hear a constant drumbeat of moral outrage at the skyrocketing numbers of unmarried cohabiting couples. But it’s every bit as sinful as homosexuality.

So the problem isn’t that sin is being opposed. That is a good thing.

The problem is that a certain type of sin, namely homosexuality, is being oppose disproportionately to other types of equivalent sin, like unmarried cohabitation, or condom usage.
Homosexuality is not being opposed, acting on it is, just to be clear.

Not all sin is equal in gravity. When the church calls something intrinsically evil it is most grievous.
 
Well, if you want to get specific not all mortal sins are of the same gravity.
That’s true. For that matter we’re not really talking about mortal sin, which could conceivably be anything, and intrinsic evil acts, which could be either mortal or venial.
As for this homsexual topic the last Pope called so-called homosexual marriage a new ideology of evil.
That is so. Homosexuals can never be truly married. True marriage is through the Church, and in the eyes of God. Civil “marriage” is not sacramental marriage.

Civil marriage is derived from sacramental marriage, but it is hardly a real marriage. The Church does not recognize a couple that is only civilly married.

So nobody is saying a homosexual couple could be sacramentally married, that is, really married. But this semi-contractual relationship created by the law, which just happens to be called marriage, is a part of the law.

The Blessed Pope John Paul II also said that modernity will “pit human rights against the family and against man.]” In a way that is precisely what is happening. Homosexuals have rights to equal protection under the law just like everybody else. So this is the consequence of the civil recognition of marriage. The simple solution to this is that government stay out of the business of licensing marriage at all, gay or straight.
That does not mean heterosexual acts that are sinful should be condoned. It does mean that at this time in history we have an obligation to oppose such things.
Equal protection under the law is not condoning homosexuality. I support the rights of people to practice devil worship under the first amendment, but this does not mean I condone devil worship. The fact is that people have rights that must be recognized.

The expansion of rights is why we have things like homosexual marriage but it is also the reason we have out of wedlock couples and married couples using contraception.

As much as some may try to obfuscate the issue, it is clear that the outrage against homosexuals is disproportionate and selective, and therefore hypocritical.
 
Honestly, I’d like to at least see consistency in the way Catholics attack these intrinsic evils. Contraception is given a wink and a nudge by most Catholics. So are unmarried cohabiting couples.

I don’t hear a constant drumbeat of moral outrage at the skyrocketing numbers of unmarried cohabiting couples. But it’s every bit as sinful as homosexuality.

So the problem isn’t that sin is being opposed. That is a good thing.

The problem is that a certain type of sin, namely homosexuality, is being oppose disproportionately to other types of equivalent sin, like unmarried cohabitation, or condom usage.
Huh? People here on CAF rail against our culture of premarital sex, cohabitation and contraception 24/7. Have you not visited the Family Life section of the forums?
 
It is hypocritical to be so selective in one’s opposition to sin as to single out homosexuals as somehow particularly sinful. When Catholics everywhere turn a blind eye to straight couples living together out of wedlock, or using birth control, or what have you, there is all manner of sexual immorality to be overcome. So why is it that so many Catholics are outraged at homosexuality more so than other forms of sexual immorality? It can only come down to intolerance.
The movement to make everyone, including Catholics, accept sodomy as normal is a relatively recent, loud, and insanely fast-growing one. It’s also one that hasn’t yet taken root in the acceptance of public opinion quite yet, as the others have. So we can better warn hearts and minds about this matter now. Sodomy is more gravely evil and perverse than premarital sex, and I believe artificial contraception, too.

I added the emphasis on your word choice of ‘intolerance,’ because I think it somewhat betrays a bias on your part. How exactly are we supposed to tolerate the evil of sodomy?
We must show the same love to homosexuals as we do to straight people who have sex prior to marriage, or married couples who use contraception. But, tragically, that is not what is happening. Too many in the Church are fixated on eradicating homosexual sin while turning a blind eye to other types of sin. But the fact is that all such behaviors are sin, and all sin is equally an affront to God. So why selectively **persecute **homosexuals? It is rank hypocrisy.
The HHS mandate pops up and suddenly Bishops start emphasizing the immorality of artificial contraception and other sinful practices against the goodness of sexuality, marriage, and family. I suspect you’d rather we not increase our condemnations of the rest of the sins, but instead simply reduce our condemnation of sodomy. Except, while obviously sin qua sin is all equal in its offensive disobedience to God’s commands, it’s not the case that all evil acts are equally evil. Some acts are worse and more damaging than others. Murder is worse than petty theft, as I’m sure you would agree. I further think it’s safe to assume you’d condemn a serial killer’s actions more than a pickpocket’s.

I again placed emphasis on a word, ‘persecute,’ that reveals your confusion re: this topic. You’re smuggling in a accusation against us, of outright persecution, but hidden within a question, instead of using a more fitting word like, say, ‘highlight,’ or ‘focus’ at that spot. You haven’t established that Catholics oppress or harass homosexuals, so be careful with your uncharitable language.
People outside the Church can sense this deep hypocrisy. They may not be able to put a fine point on it, but it is apparent that the Christian outrage against homosexuals is selective and based on prejudice against homosexuals rather than anything rational. Were Catholics truly rational then the outrage against sin would be applied evenly. You ought to get just as outraged when a couple lives together out of wedlock as when a gay couple does so. You ought to treat a sexually active homosexual as kindly as you treat a sexually active straight person.
First, the Church probably needs to learn how to be less concerned about its public image at the moment. Most of our enemies will hate us regardless, so we’d be foolish to cater to their constantly “playing hard to get” while possibly letting ourselves be lured onto their turf trying to save what doesn’t want to be saved. Prudence is to be applied.

The sentence I put in bold is almost beneath addressing. I doubt you take its logical consequences upon your own conscience, too. Do you express or feel the exact same amount of outrage at someone who gets drunk once a month as you do for someone who commits rape with the same frequency? If I thought about it longer I’m sure I could come up with an even more illustrative reductio ad absurdum (in case you were planning on trying to equate the two drastically different sins).

Do you not understand that, given finite time, resources, energy, etc., one’s prudence will have to dictate which subjects are to be accorded more/less focus and attention on a priority basis? Circumstances are relevant. Some issues will be more pertinent than others on different days. This explains why the Pope is addressing the Bishops about family issues now instead of, say, Arian heresy.
And furthermore, why the fixation on sexual sin? There is so much sin out there to be outraged about.
I’m starting to get a feeling that you don’t want us to be outraged over any sin at all. I hope the silence re: all sinful activity would be just incidental, not an intentional result to you.
Why have Catholic news sites not written screeds against rudeness, or lack of charity, or aggressive driving, or skipping Mass, or any of the other countless sins that we encounter in our daily lives? Did you all forget that even a sin that is otherwise venial, when done in willful contempt of God, is a mortal sin? So when you are rude to somebody, despite having been told by Christ to love everyone, you are dancing dangerously close to mortal sin. When you focus on the sins of others and ignore the plank in your own eye, you shut yourself down to true repentance.
To those Catholics getting so worked up about gay marriage and such, you should worry more about saving your own souls, because that kind of judgmental attitude puts you in far greater mortal peril than any homosexual.
Throughout this entire post, but especially in this last sentence, you seem to be judging us for some sort of hypocrisy, that is, instead of worrying strictly about your own soul. Irony. (I won’t say it’s sinful, since I’d expect you to warn us of danger if you truly are convinced we’re threatening our souls with sin.)
 
Any sort of disordered sex is an intrinsic evil. I suppose technically speaking an act of sex that allows for the possibility of life is not an “intrinsic evil” even if out of wedlock, because the nature of sex open to life is not an intrinsic evil.

But certainly sex that is not open to life, gay or straight, is an intrinsic evil. Do you want me to look up the Catechism on that, or can we agree on that?
Being an intrinsic evil and being a disordered act is not the same thing. Homosexual acts are disordered - nothing can put them right. Premarital sex or sex using contraceptives are sinful acts but not disordered. They can be returned to their rightful order.

To make the distinction is not biggoted or lacking in compassion for those who are homosexual.
 
That’s true. For that matter we’re not really talking about mortal sin, which could conceivably be anything, and intrinsic evil acts, which could be either mortal or venial.

That is so. Homosexuals can never be truly married. True marriage is through the Church, and in the eyes of God. Civil “marriage” is not sacramental marriage.

Civil marriage is derived from sacramental marriage, but it is hardly a real marriage. The Church does not recognize a couple that is only civilly married.

So nobody is saying a homosexual couple could be sacramentally married, that is, really married. But this semi-contractual relationship created by the law, which just happens to be called marriage, is a part of the law.

The Blessed Pope John Paul II also said that modernity will “pit human rights against the family and against man.]” In a way that is precisely what is happening. Homosexuals have rights to equal protection under the law just like everybody else. So this is the consequence of the civil recognition of marriage. The simple solution to this is that government stay out of the business of licensing marriage at all, gay or straight.

Equal protection under the law is not condoning homosexuality. I support the rights of people to practice devil worship under the first amendment, but this does not mean I condone devil worship. The fact is that people have rights that must be recognized.

The expansion of rights is why we have things like homosexual marriage but it is also the reason we have out of wedlock couples and married couples using contraception.

As much as some may try to obfuscate the issue, it is clear that the outrage against homosexuals is disproportionate and selective, and therefore hypocritical.
Not so - marriage is elevated as a benefit to society for the common good. This is not a civil rights issue at all. It is one of license.
 
Huh? People here on CAF rail against our culture of premarital sex, cohabitation and contraception 24/7. Have you not visited the Family Life section of the forums?
If you think that Catholics, on CAF or anywhere else, generally speaking treat homosexuals the same as they treat cohabiting straight people, then you are either unobservant or being disingenuous.
 
If you think that Catholics, on CAF or anywhere else, generally speaking treat homosexuals the same as they treat cohabiting straight people, then you are either unobservant or being disingenuous.
Your right many are much more frank. You must have missed the posting where someone asked what was wrong with premarital sex. I did not see any responses that were wishy washy in that thread in response to his question. I would agree that many people struggle to speak with compassion on the topic of gay marriage as compared to cohabitation and premarital sex, however that should not be a surprise. It is much harder for many people to empathize with a gay person and what they are going through as compared to the struggle with premarital sex. Many of us can remember our own struggle with premarital sex and thus are more apt to be able to keep a compassionate tone while telling the person the complete Truth. With gay marriage however the ability to empathize as easily is just not there and never will be.

It will always take 3 times the effort for a straight person to speak compassionately with regards to the immorality of homosexual sex and marriage as opposed to premarital sex. Complaining about a double standard really is not going to do any good because you just cannot fake what is necessary for empathy.
 
If you think that Catholics, on CAF or anywhere else, generally speaking treat homosexuals the same as they treat cohabiting straight people, then you are either unobservant or being disingenuous.
first, this statement is making a claim subtly different than what is being debated in the posts directly above. the posts directly above this one are debating whether the different sins are receiving the same treatment/outrage on CAF. Now here in this post, stanczyk subtly twists the flow to say that homosexuals (the persons, not the sin) are not being treated the same.

second, this is blatantly columnious. as a former gay myself, I have been involved in more of these homosexuality threads than I can count. I have seen the debates get charged and heated, but I have not seen them turn into some uncharitable hate-fest. I have also read many of the contraceptive threads (not to mention the modesty threads) and those have gone downhill farther and faster than I’ve seen any of the homosexuality threads.

Finally, you decided to throw out an allegation regarding a “homosexual centurion”, then say it was a matter for another thread, then finally “retract” it. this is a claim so far outside of accepted theology and into gay apologetics that you should be embarrassed to type it.

in reading your posts on this thread, it seems you would have us believe that you aren’t defending homosexuality per se, just that you’re concerned that we’re all being judgmental. but then you turned your posts to say that what you mean to accuse us of is discrimination–because we shouldn’t discriminate between sins. why there’s being rude, why aren’t people up in arms about that?

You make a number of fundamental mistakes. first, you assume that your audience is not equally “up in arms” about co-habitating, extramarital sex, and contraception. second, you ignore the instructions found in Catholic teaching about fraternal correction. third, you are apparently ignoring Hell. because that is what fraternal correction is concerned with, our brothers’ and sisters’ souls.

“all it takes for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
 
stpeterslist.com/4093/3-reasons-the-catholic-church-can-rule-on-sexuality/
Listers, the Catholic Church has long ruled in matters of sexuality. Issues of abortion, contraception, homosexuality and other sexual issues have been topics of discussion and legislation since our earliest Church Fathers. The following list is taken from the opening of Pope Paul VI’s largely ignored Humanae Vitae. The three points presuppose the ability of the Church and her magisterium rule authoritatively on subjects related to Divine law. The purpose of the list is to show why an authority over issues of revelation assumes the responsibility and the capability of ruling over issues of nature. In our modern world, the Church’s capacity to define and declare laws of nature deals heavily with issues of sexuality and politics.
 
Well, if you want to debate it we can, but it is highly tangential. I take it you are already familiar with what I am referring to. I think another thread is appropriate for another debate.

But I admit that I shouldn’t be using evidence that are in themselves controversial within this debate. My argument stands on its own. I guess that acts as a retraction of that particular point, but my argument within this thread is sound.
Actually, I think you should address this by backing up your initial statement or admitting it is false, one or the other. The implication is that Christ is openly supported homosexuality. This is a very loaded statement to just claim you would rather discuss it in another thread. If you have evidence of this, you should provide it. The only thing I have seen regarding this topic is from openly homosexual websites who, to give them credit, are quite honest about their agenda.

However, as Catholics, we believe that the Church is the authentic interpreter of Sacred Scripture. As such, your statement begs for either evidence, or an admission that this statement is false.
 
You ought to get just as outraged when a couple lives together out of wedlock as when a gay couple does so.
:confused: Apparently you haven’t been paying attention? 🤷

All faithful Catholics are “outraged” not at “sin,” per se, but at the masquerading of sin as virtue – whether that be sexual sin, greed, exploitation of the poor, etc. If you see more ink poured regarding homosexuality, it’s only because no other “cause” or group campaigns so vigorously against the Catholic Church for its doctrinal integrity on traditional marriage (including as that applies to heterosexuals), and against promiscuous, extra-marital sex which opposes natural law. (fornication, adultery, homosexuality, etc)

Haven’t seen any adulterers publish screeds lately against the Roman Church. :dts: Haven’t seen any heterosexual cohabiting couples publish hit-pieces about the oppressive nature of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If either did, they would be greeted with adamant disapproval by mainstream orthodox Catholics, not limited to clergy. And in fact, one group has done so recently, and has been opposed far more stridently by practicing Catholics & orthodox Catholic politicians than anything published by homosexuals: that group are the radical single, unmarried feminists who feel entitled to government reimbursement for the contraception which enables their unlimited fornication. (See active threads on CAF World News.)

But then, in order to notice that, a person would have to have been paying attention. 😉
 
The ultimate misery of homosexuality is, in fact, what every longitudinal study reveals. An active homosexual life most often results in shortened life span, prevalence of disease, drug and alcohol abuse, and relationships that are brief and emotionally hurtful, with little hope of fidelity, and a high occurrence of violent abuse. The chances of a person committing suicide are also greatly increased.
That quote from the article is hilarious in a mindlessly evil sort of way.

How about this one? Dateline Mississippi, 1950: Studies reveal that being of African descent leads to less success in school and in the workplace, in fact, those of African descent also have higher suicide rates.

:rolleyes:
 
That is so. Homosexuals can never be truly married. True marriage is through the Church, and in the eyes of God. Civil “marriage” is not sacramental marriage.

Civil marriage is derived from sacramental marriage, but it is hardly a real marriage. The Church does not recognize a couple that is only civilly married.
This is untrue. The Church recognizes valid marriages exist outside of the Catholic form that binds Catholics. Mary and Joseph had a natural marriage and it was authentic and valid. Two Prostestants that are baptized have a valid and sacramental marriage.
So nobody is saying a homosexual couple could be sacramentally married, that is, really married. But this semi-contractual relationship created by the law, which just happens to be called marriage, is a part of the law.
The “contract” is not only a legal device but is a fundamental part of society. The state has an obligation to protect it.
The Blessed Pope John Paul II also said that modernity will “pit human rights against the family and against man.]” In a way that is precisely what is happening. Homosexuals have rights to equal protection under the law just like everybody else. So this is the consequence of the civil recognition of marriage. The simple solution to this is that government stay out of the business of licensing marriage at all, gay or straight.
The Church disgrees with you and the Vatican has issued statements that contradict your position.
Equal protection under the law is not condoning homosexuality. I support the rights of people to practice devil worship under the first amendment, but this does not mean I condone devil worship. The fact is that people have rights that must be recognized.
The state does not invent rights. There is no right to faux marriages.
The expansion of rights is why we have things like homosexual marriage but it is also the reason we have out of wedlock couples and married couples using contraception.
As much as some may try to obfuscate the issue, it is clear that the outrage against homosexuals is disproportionate and selective, and therefore hypocritical.
The only obfuscation I see is from folks that support your position. They use illegitimate terms like “rights” and “discrimination” where none exist.
 
Not more so than the intrinsic evil of premarital sex between straight people. I don’t see you up in arms about that.

Jesus was kind and loving to sinners of all sorts, He extended his love and compassion to prostitutes without judgment, and He even saw fit to praise a homosexual centurion for his faith.

Jesus was only brought to anger by hypocrites, those who claim to be holy but whose hearts are full of judgment for the sins of others.

Mind your own yard. Worry about your own sin, and be compassionate to everybody else. That’s the obligation of a Christian.
Perhaps when there are adultery parades and pre-marital straight sex parades, as well as SMU (Straight, Married and Unfaithful) clubs lobbying for funding at schools and universities, we will have fights of equal weight.

The reason the fight against homosexual normalcy is at the forefront is because the gay community has pushed to bring themselves to the forefront. When there wasn’t a push for gay “marriage,” you didn’t see nearly the push back from the Church, did you?
 
The reason the fight against homosexual normalcy is at the forefront is because the gay community has pushed to bring themselves to the forefront. When there wasn’t a push for gay “marriage,” you didn’t see nearly the push back from the Church, did you?
That is a great point.
 
Perhaps when there are adultery parades and pre-marital straight sex parades, as well as SMU (Straight, Married and Unfaithful) clubs lobbying for funding at schools and universities, we will have fights of equal weight.

The reason the fight against homosexual normalcy is at the forefront is because the gay community has pushed to bring themselves to the forefront. When there wasn’t a push for gay “marriage,” you didn’t see nearly the push back from the Church, did you?
I just want everybody else who was earlier claiming that Christians aren’t selective in their outrage against homosexual sin over other types of sin. See. This kind of behavior does indeed exist. And the above is a pretty typical rationalization for it.

Don’t you folks see that we really need to clean our own house on this issue? It is tragically counterproductive to cultivate the sin of wrath in our own community in order to guard against homosexuality.

By the way:
Perhaps when there are adultery parades and pre-marital straight sex parades, as well as SMU (Straight, Married and Unfaithful) clubs lobbying for funding at schools and universities, we will have fights of equal weight.
If you think there aren’t parades celebrating adulterers and sex outside of marriage you are much mistaken.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top