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1beleevr
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sonofmonica: Just thought of something; Jesus was not taken seriously by many, especially the Pharisees and Saducees! So I guess I am in good company!
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1beleevr
Guest
prmerger: I know that many a hand was involved in getting the entire Bible put together, and I also know that what was said to the disciples, applies to US today!
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Prieldedi
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What does the Bible say about salvation? We are saved…prieldedi: Okay, let’s say for the sake of argument, that I believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity. The discussion has morphed into whether or not this belief is necessary for salvation, given all the other verses which tell US,“all who call upon the Name of Jesus will be saved,” or “turn back to God for forgiveness of your sins, repent, be baptized(I like full immersion) in the Name of Jesus, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,” “whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” Is it a requirement for salvation? We don’t know! Did Jesus tell His disciples that belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity was necessary for salvation? Are all of us Christians who don’t believe it is necessary, unsaved?We do read the words of the apostles, and we do know that through the Holy Spirit, we can and do enjoy a personal relationship with Christ! HALLELUJAH!!!
by believing in Jesus, John 3:16, Acts 16:31
by repenting, Acts 2:38, 2 Peter 3:9
by baptism, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5
by the Spirit, John 3:5, 2 Corinthians 3:6
by confessing it with our lips, Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9
by the knowledge of truth, 1 Timothy 2:4, Hebrews 10:26
by works, Romans 2:6-7, James 2:24
by the grace, Acts 15:11, Ephesians 2:8
by His blood, Romans 5:9, Hebrews 9:22
by His justice, Romans 5:17, 2 Peter 1:1
by His cross, Ephesians 2:16, Colossians 2:14
by eating His body and drinking His blood, John 6:54
Look at Hebrews 10:26-27, “If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, there is no longer sacrifice for sin, but only the fearful prospect of judgment and of fire which devours the rebellious.”
If truth is that Mary is Ever Virgin and you deny it, aren’t you putting yourself in peril?
John 16:23. “… he will guide you into the whole truth”
I ask you again: after 2000 years of Christianity, who among your fellow Protestants has been “guided into the whole truth”?
Not Luther, not Calvin, not Swingly… who? Your silence is deafening.
We Catholics know WHO.
God bless you
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Good_Fella
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The confession of sin and repentance pertains to personal sins and the acknowledgement of actually being sinful. But the water of baptism does not only cleanse us from personal sins. It acts to remove the stain of original sin from the soul. Original sin is a condition, not an act of which we are culpable and thus in need to repent of. An infant has no personal sins to confess and repent of, but ought to be baptized so that the stain of original sin is removed from its soul. We read in Acts that entire households were baptized, which would include infants and servants.prmerger: Actually, when those of us who go about Our Father’s business, reach someone who is lost, and he/she is led to a knowledge of and forgiveness of sin, we knock it out of the park! Is there a confession of sin, and repentance before baptism; thus making the confession an acceptance of Christ’s offering of salvation, the beginning(Acts 2:38) Is this the correct"order?"
“Truly, truly, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
John 3, 5
“I will sprinkle clean water upon you to cleanse you from all your impurities, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts.”
Ezekiel 36, 25-26
PAX :harp:
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elvisman
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No, she was not. She MAY be in the process but she is not saved until she finishes the race (2 Tim. 4:7) and endures to the end (Matt. 24:13). Being “Born again” and being save are NOT the same thing.Hey, elvisman: I don’t see anything wrong with remembering the day that the Holy Spirit convicyrd your heart of its’ sin, and you finally said YES to Jesus’s offer of salvation! Most of US realize that salvation, is an ongoing process, and God is continually molding us and shaping US into what He wants us to look like(more like Christ). But that day(May 15,1967, for me) was the beginning of our NEW life in Christ("Behold, I stand at the door and knock). But, it is not a “slam dunk”, as you call it! Similarly, confirmation is not the final answer, but a beginning! Curious though, why Janet1983, would say that she was raised catholic, and then got saved in 2007Wasn’t she saved at confirmation?
You are saved when you are in heaven - PERIOD. Sanctification is a lifelong process and ONLY those who endure to the end are saved.
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PRmerger
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prmerger: I know that many a hand was involved in getting the entire Bible put together, and I also know that what was said to the disciples, applies to US today!
Then why do you seem to disparage this “apostolic passdown”? If you believe it gave you the Bible then you ought to consider some other things “apostolic passdown” has given, such as the belief that Mary did not have more children.
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PRmerger
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Belief first, then repentance, then baptism
Baptism has always been seen as connected with faith: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household…(the jailer) was baptized at once, with all his family” Acts 16:31-33
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Good_Fella
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:harp::heaven::angel1:
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freedomwriter
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I guess the thief on the cross won’t be seeing Christ anytime soon. You are saved at the time you recieve and believe Christ to be your Lord and Saviour. That is not hard to understand. Sanctification is a person being set apart for the kingdom of God. That person is already set apart. Being born again and being saved IS the same thing. If you say santification is a life long process then how do you know you have done enough to enter the kingdom of God when you die. What if you get to heaven Christ says “sorry you missed it by this much”. Again being saved is an action that occurs when a sinner truly repents of their sins and accepts Christ. You no Longer have to worry whether you do enough works.
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PRmerger
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How does the thief on the cross contradict what elvisman (that is, what the CC) says?
The CC does not teach that we have to worry “whether you do enough works.”
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elvisman
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WRONG**.**
Don’t be so smug in your self-assurance about salvation my prideful friend.
The thief on the cross was saved by Jesus and was born again by a baptism of desire.
The Scriptures are against you – rather, in your ignorance and pride - YOU go against the Scriptures. These are written to so-called “Saved” believers:
Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”
Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
2 Peter 2:26-27
**For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. **
**For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. **
Matt. 7:21
‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."
1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified".**
Rom. 8:24** – “… for in this hope we were saved”**
(why should we “hope” if salvation is a certainty?)
Rather than simply blowing these Scriptures off - as every single anti-Catholic has done on this forum - have the courage to address them. Tell me what you think they mean instead of ignoring them.
**As for works - your take is, well, ignorant. That’s not what the Church teaches, my ignorant friend. **You call yourself a “Born Again Catholic”, yet, from your posts, you know NOTHING about the Catholic faith. The Church does not now – nor has it ever taught that we are saved by what we can do.
Maybe changing your profile to “Ignorant Anti-Catholic” would be more appropriate.**
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1beleevr
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prmerger: Don’t be so sensitive I do not disparage the apdstolic teaching, just wondering if they have been passed down pristinely??? And, I know this is probably not the entire list of essentials for salvation, but belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, seems to be absent Disparage; that’s an awfully mean word, don’t you think?
I do not disparage the apdstolic teaching, just wondering if they have been passed down pristinely??? And, I know this is probably not the entire list of essentials for salvation, but belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, seems to be absent Disparage; that’s an awfully mean word, don’t you think?
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PRmerger
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I can think of a lot meaner words.prmerger: Don’t be so sensitive
In fact, I can think of a lot better words than “mean”, too!Regardless, if you have to question whether apostolic teaching has been passed down pristinely, you’ll have to doubt whether Scripture was correctly canonized by the Apostles’ successors as well. It only logically follows, don’t you think???
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1beleevr
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I suppose you’re right
The sticking point here, seems to be not so much whether the apostles passed it down, but whether her perpetual virginity is necessary for salvation I am in the camp, that even if I believe in her virginity after Christ(I know she was one before and up til), I don’t believe this belief is necessary for salvation! I can’t believe that anyone will be denied Heaven because they did not believe in Mary’s virginity:
The sticking point here, seems to be not so much whether the apostles passed it down, but whether her perpetual virginity is necessary for salvation I am in the camp, that even if I believe in her virginity after Christ(I know she was one before and up til), I don’t believe this belief is necessary for salvation! I can’t believe that anyone will be denied Heaven because they did not believe in Mary’s virginity:
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PRmerger
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Do you have a Scripture verse that tells you what’s an essential belief and what’s a secondary belief, 1beleevr?I suppose you’re right
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1beleevr
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No, actually I don’t! Do you?
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PRmerger
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Well, then, 1beleevr, you cannot claim what’s an essential belief and what’s not, can you?No, actually I don’t! Do you?
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Good_Fella
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Neither will anyone be denied Heaven because he or she failed to believe in Christ’s divinity. Perhaps we should redefine the meaning of faith. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peace makers, for they shall be called sons of God…”I suppose you’re right
PAX :heaven:
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1beleevr
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prieldedi: What exactly would I be in danger of, anyway! If I am saved, doesn’t the blood of Christ cover me? Must I also believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity, in order to cross the River into paradise?
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1beleevr
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prmerger: Apparently, you do not have a scripture verse, outlining primary and secondary essentials for salvation either At least not for belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, being a requirement for salvation Sounds good though
At least not for belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity, being a requirement for salvation Sounds good though- Status