Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[Angelo_Michael]

While it was not common then [as it is not common in this day] there have always been those who consecrate themselves to a life of service to the Lord … you can read about this in the Book of Numbers … it covers the case of a young woman who consecrates herself by a vow to the Lord while still living in her Father’s house and alos when a married woman would make the same vow and the circumstances that would make that “vow” binding upon her father [or husband]…

Thanks for the insight-- although I have yet to find the exact verses-- I am glad that you have reminded me of them.

Perhaps one of the main reasons for my assumption that Joseph and Mary were not celibate was the address of Gabriel to Joseph in Matthew 1:20-21, “But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Of course it’s nothing conclusive, and as I’ve said before I was ignorant of this concept of perpetual virginity until only a few days ago. So, I guess it was because the angel never mentioned anything of abstaining from sexual relations that I figured it was not done. But this would deny the validity, acceptance, and merit of a ‘free-will’ offering. I understand now, that if I had known about the concept of perpetual virginity earlier, I may have sought to justify it more so than its antithesis.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Qui moderatur sermones suos doctus et prudens est, et pretiosi spiritus vir eruditus

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Angelo: Where did I loose you on the nature of God? And this insert, I am responding to this page, is this to me or are you answering someone’s question.?

Don,
For the most part a lot of your theology has seemed very foreign to me. It is like you are trying too much and inserting your own opinion-- rather assertively-- without acknowledging the authority of Christ. I posted some scripture in what is now reply #127 targeted toward you (and the audience) to make sure that everyone had access to what I perceived to be the pertinent scriptures pertaining to the concepts of which you are arguing. When I would read some of your theological speculations I would wonder if you were aware of those particular scriptures. I noticed neither you or anyone else was qouting them, but rather that people’s opinions were being asserted and the relevant scriptures perhaps ignored. I also included some more scripture in the reply you have qouted. I’ve also been trying to figure out if ‘Junior Member’ means ‘youth’ or simply status here on the website.

Maybe you could elaborate more but also try to focus and assimilate what is already there. Also, if what you are going to say/write is going to seem to, or actually does, contradict some scripture (or doctrine), try to express how you justify that in your statements.

 

[Don_Hepler]

Don,
For the most part a lot of your theology has seemed very foreign to me. It is like you are trying too much and inserting your own opinion-- rather assertively-- without acknowledging the authority of Christ. I posted some scripture in what is now reply #137 targeted toward you (and the audience) to make sure that everyone had access to what I perceived to be the pertinent scriptures pertaining to the concepts of which you are arguing. When I would read some of your theological speculations I would wonder if you were aware of those particular scriptures. I noticed neither you or anyone else was qouting them, but rather that people’s opinions were being asserted and the relevant scriptures perhaps ignored. I also included some more scripture in the reply you have qouted. I’ve also been trying to figure out if ‘Junior Member’ means ‘youth’ or simply status here on the website.

Maybe you could elaborate more but also try to focus and assimilate what is already there. Also, if what you are going to say/write is going to seem to, or actually does, contradict some scripture (or doctrine), try to express how you justify that in your statements.

thank you I receive a lot of mail from this fourm, some are repeated. thank you for your honesty towards me, You have a wonderful way of expressing yourself. I hope I maybe as talented. First reply #137 I don’t have that, please share it with me. I have used the scriptures, I have said alot on this fourm so I am not sure what you are addressing concerning this information on this page, that you are saying. Is it the God head, Mary, abortions, Doctors herbs etc If you’ll tell me I will show you scriptural my belief and maybe clear up some understanding of what I am teaching. Remember when Jesus, started his ministry and read from the Torah, In your ears this prophey has been fulfilled, what was the response??? Jesus taught things strange and different to the Jews, It angered them, because it wasn’t in the written word. He taught in the temple grounds his words rang true to their ears. You follow the letter of the law but not the Spirit of the Law. The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. I am not afraid, so ask.

 

[Janet1983]

Qui moderatur sermones suos doctus et prudens est, et pretiosi spiritus vir eruditus

Proverbs 17:27…
Unfortunately my Latin is merely passive…

 

[Don_Hepler]

Proverbs 17:27…
Unfortunately my Latin is merely passive…

Janet you are my favorite person. Latin is good, but only the catholics understand it.
t can’t believe your going to make me look this up. Proverbs let’s see isn’t that in the OT LOL
So where do we go from here. what are you going to teach me!! Be gentle

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I have corrected my reply to indicate that I was demarcating #127 rather than #137. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’ve got to go now. But please consider this observation as well:
Matthew 5:14-20,
"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. "

Don,
Thank you for your compliments. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and improve your ability to communicate them. Sometimes it is not so easy for me either.

 

[Don_Hepler]

The following scritpures are intended to help Don Hepler understand that God is not a man and that the things God does do not have to make sense to us:

John 4:23-24, “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
** As I explained if your worshipping the God of the old Testiment Jehovah, he is a spirit being, when the scriptures talk about Jehovah at this time. but Eli is not spirit who is the Father of us all… the one Jesus prayed to on the cross, Jehovah became Jesus the Son of man, So The son of who (MAN** The scriptures cannot be broken. I explaned this why is it that you cannot understand my words?Matthew 19:23-26, “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” **That’s right **
Numbers 23:19, “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

You need to look at this a little closer… I am not a Man that I should lie eather…GET IT

Isaiah 28:21, “For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act**.” What are you trying to say???******

The following scriptures are intended to help serve as a reminder of the necessity for accuracy: Accuracy,you got to be kidding me…why are you so afraid…

Proverbs 14:12, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Boy you are afraid…
Ezekiel 14:9, “And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.” Here is a miss translation, If God cannot look upon sin at the least degree of alounce why would it say DECEIVED that prophet, I believe this is one of those mistranslation that happens all through the scriptures.
Deut. 13:1-4, "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. " Oh you preceive me to be this prophet, you are afraid, what other Gods have I pointed to …ELI …the one Jesus prayed to… will maybe the prophet you speak of… is you

James 1:12-16, “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.”
** AMEN thank you**

Also, John chapters 14-16 contain passages relating to the Holy Ghost.

 

[Don_Hepler]

I have corrected my reply to indicate that I was demarcating #127 rather than #137. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I’ve got to go now. But please consider this observation as well:
Matthew 5:14-20,
"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. "

Don,
Thank you for your compliments. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and improve your ability to communicate them. Sometimes it is not so easy for me either.

I thank you and I believe you and I are on the same page, but let us think before we write, I’ll try to do the same. there is much to learn and we haven’t much time!

 

[YADA]

Thanks for the insight-- although I have yet to find the exact verses-- I am glad that you have reminded me of them.

Angelo, The Chapter in Numbers is Chapter 30. I probably have just given the reference but it has been posted in simialr Thread Topics adn I oft time think people fail to truely read it and instead either ignore it or attempt to pick and choose the context to force a different meaning … ANd if they have to search for it themselves - they find it by realizing that the passageis speaking of “chastity vows”

I proabably can’t post the whole Chapter due to limits but here are the specific verses … Please though read the entire chapter and the preceeding and following ones as well. Remember the Chapter/Verse is a latter construct that does not reference true “breaks” as we understand and compose literary works to day.

1 Moses then gave the Israelites these instructions, just as the LORD had ordered him. 2 Moses said to the heads of the Israelite tribes, "This is what the LORD has commanded: 3 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or binds himself under oath to a pledge of abstinence, he shall not violate his word, but must fulfill exactly the promise he has uttered. 4 "When a woman, while still a maiden in her father’s house, makes a vow to the LORD, or binds herself to a pledge, 5 if her father learns of her vow or the pledge to which she bound herself and says nothing to her about it, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid. …

7 "If** she marries while under a vow **or under a rash pledge to which she bound herself, 8 and her husband learns of it, yet says nothing to her that day about it, then the vow or pledge she had made remains valid. …
11 “If it is in her husband’s house that she makes a vow or binds herself under oath to a pledge, 12 and her husband learns of it yet says nothing to express to her his disapproval, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid. … 16 If, however, he countermands them some time after he first learned of them, he is responsible for her guilt.” 17 These are the statutes which the LORD prescribed through Moses concerning the relationship between a husband and his wife, as well as between a father and his daughter while she is still a maiden in her father’s house.

 

[Bill_Pick]

That’s it that’s all you got.

Don Do you beliebe in the trinity.No you do not and that is why you are ashame of your regigion and did not put it down or you are a mulsim

 

[Don_Hepler]

Do you believe that it is possible for water to be in the ocean, in the clouds, in the glaciers and still be within every cell in your body…all at the same time? God is like that, Don. He can be everywhere at once and still dwell in your heart. No matter how He is perceived, no matter what form He takes, God is God. Always and everywhere.

God is the sum of all knowledge and reason, Don. That is what it means to be The Word. We have been discovering things for thousands of years without learning all there is to know about everything. To be more correct, God doesn’t defy logic. We simply haven’t caught up to His level of understanding.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word *was with *God, and the Word was God. Not “a” God but God. How can Jesus be with God and be God at the same time? I do not know…but I believe nonetheless. The Scriptures do not lie.

“I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Jesus existed before He was born of Mary. Ergo, He was not the product of a union between two beings and two sets of DNA. Do you seriously believe that the God who created life from nothing was incapable of being cradled in the womb outside of the normal means of conception?

It defies your logic, not mine. I know that God is not limited to human understanding. He can do things we cannot do. He said “let there be” and it was. I can’t do that. You can’t do that. God can and did. Hallelujah!

I believe in God with all my heart, all my soul and all my mind. God–the eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, perfect Creator all of the Universe. God, the I AM. God, the Alpha and the Omega. You are right that the Scriptures do not lie, Don. I am not questioning the Scriptures, just your personal interpretation of them.

Peace be with you.

I feel love from you, how do you exspect me to write my thoughts when love is flowing.around me Thank you, I have my composer back… I see you are Catholic through and through, though you used water I would say that is more like the Holy Ghost functions. You discribe Him to a “T” And thats how Deity works is through this beautiful spirit to man. You see I see God as all knowing, master of the elements, time, age, eternial Glory, Now just because I wrote this, If you had come across this page 2000 years ago and read these words would you believe that God is eternial Glory. Light, though that is only his strengths.that I was discribing. We cannot be saved in ignorce and we are saved no faster than we gain knowledge. You see in my eyes I know, perfect knowledge that I am right, you believe you are right. We both can’t be. to me you are worshipping a false God, sorry there goes the Love. since that is the case what should I do. You have quote some scriptures O.K let see them through My EYES.Quoting from
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him and without him was not any thing made that was made.
My understanding by the spirit. don’t let that frighten you O.K.

this is how it reads. **In the beginning was the Word lets but a name to this, Jehovah

being the Word. so in the beginning was Jehovah and Jehovah was with God ELI and Jehovah was God. The same was in the beginning with God Eli All things were made by him(jehovah and without him was not any thing made that was made. Now compare this with Hebrews. they are the same just a different writer.
Hebrews. God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the Fathers by the prophets. That’s Good we can understand that. next
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds.** So God Eli spoke to his Son Jehovah (Jesus) and had him make the worlds. Jehovah is the word. it was with God in the beginning. Jehovah was a spirit meaning in the old testimont God is a spirit. I understand this to me this is simple, I Am made in his image MAN when you say I and my father are one and the same.quoting Jesus he said that of his apostles that they may be one as we are. And is it not written that husband and wife are to become one… lets add… flesh… to this… let figure that out become on flesh. Come on, your smarter than this. I know that.you are I don’t interp the scripture I fill in the blanks. God Bless .

 

[Don_Hepler]

Don Do you beliebe in the trinity.No you do not and that is why you are ashame of your regigion and did not put it down or you are a mulsim

I am not ashamed of my belief, If I were why would I teach you of Jesus. Mulsim LOL
I am of Abraham My linage is to Issac not Ishmael. Now… Trinity, I do not follow your beliefs in the nincine creed. My God is the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, I am a Israelite, I come From Joseph who was sold into Eygpt I am from the son of Ephriam. I am not adopted I am true Blood.

 

[Bill_Pick]

WoW The Word of God speaks for itself. You don’t have to believe me but that doesn’t change anything. I don’t see that will all these scriptures of Mary having other sons is weak scripturally. I know of one son who became a believer in Jesus and that is James in the book of Acts. As far as them taken care of Mary after they become believers, who is to say they didn’t. The bible doesn’t say anything about it. To be honest i do not read much of Calvin. I am a student of God’s Word, My instructor is Christ and as far as His background just read the Bible. Again for the last time this is not my interpretation. to do is compare scripture with scripturAll you have e.

 

[Bill_Pick]

compare scripture with scripturAll you have e.
Yes and then we have over 36,000 non-cathloic denomon

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Don,
I’m sorry if you felt that I have accused you. I presumed you were perhaps a youth that was unfamiliar with the scriptures and were forcing your thoughts into them too much from a lack of awareness-- like I have done sometimes. It is interesting to learn that you are an Ephraimite and that you know your lineage so well-- that it has been preserved all these years. Perhaps your understanding of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc. is greater than my own. Your logic and theology, however still seems strange to me. I hope you won’t take it personally. In my mind, as of now, people can refer to God by name, or title. And, just as Christ is referred to as Immanuel in OT so I thought Eli was just another title or name of God. From what I understand Christ, and all of us, only have one Father, and that is God. And you are introducing some strange (in my opinion) argument about how there are two Gods. Or maybe I’m getting confused because I am ignorant of many things.

But I’d like you to [re-]consider Hosea chapters 11-14:
“When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
As they called them, so they went from them: they sacrificed unto Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. I taught Ephraim also to go, taking them by their arms; but they knew not that I healed them. I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love: and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I laid meat unto them. …] How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah? how shall I set thee as Zeboim? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. …]Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.
Ephraim feedeth on wind, and followeth after the east wind: he daily increaseth lies and desolation; and they do make a covenant with the Assyrians, and oil is carried into Egypt.
The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him. He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God: Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us; Even the LORD God of hosts; the LORD is his memorial. Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment, and wait on thy God continually. He is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand: he loveth to oppress. And Ephraim said, Yet I am become rich, I have found me out substance: in all my labours they shall find none iniquity in me that were sin. And I that am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt will yet make thee to dwell in tabernacles, as in the days of the solemn feast. I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. …]*. And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. *And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved. Ephraim provoked him to anger most bitterly: therefore shall he leave his blood upon him, and his reproach shall his Lord return unto him.
When Ephraim spake trembling, he exalted himself in Israel; but when he offended in Baal, he died. And now they sin more and more, and have made them molten images of their silver, and idols according to their own understanding, all of it the work of the craftsmen: they say of them, Let the men that sacrifice kiss the calves.
…] Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. …] O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help. I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes? I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath. The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid.
The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children. I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels. Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips…] I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. …] Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found. Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.”

I am not afraid I am concerned-- for you.

– Angelo

*Italicized portion may be relevant to my assumption that Joseph and Mary were not celibate. Indeed I have perhaps too hurriedly associated marriage with reproduction.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I thank you and I believe you and I are on the same page, but let us think before we write, I’ll try to do the same. there is much to learn and we haven’t much time!

I agree that we are on the same page. In fact I can see a very close similarity in our thoughts. Let me share a theory I have been working on, or have conceived, in my mind. Now, I don’t mean to deride you, but it’s a scientific theory that I may have developed out of ignorance. And the audience may laugh but I hope all will benefit from this tangent.

It is basically a theory that there could be (at least) 2 universes instead of one. Maybe like Edom and Jacob-- twins. Of course, there would only be one God/Creator. The Edomite Universe would be stronger and more massive and would turn into a black hole sooner and swallow up the Jacob universe-- which is the one we live in, and that is why it is expanding. I’m actually pretty sure this wouldn’t make sense or maybe there are some parts that might and others that don’t. Or I have taken a wrong turn somewhere and need to retrace my logic to maintain integrity. For example, I don’t think a massive black hole would cause our universe to expand equilaterally, but I really don’t know. But I mean, why is it that everyone is so convinced that there is only one universe? Perhaps a universe is just a seed and there are many. And there is enmity, like with Eve and Satan. And like Christ had to die to maintain the integrity of all the creation of God, which could be more than one universe, or to overpower the black hole that will eventually/theoretically envelop our own. Or something to this effect. You get where I am coming from? I like to speculate and consider why some thoughts are not challenged too.

 

[freedomwriter]

Don Hepler;5511374:

You need to understand your destroying the very foundation of their belief system, If Mary had other children which she did. Then they would have to explain hundreds of years of deception. Or admit they were wrong, about Mary. actually it doesn’t pertain to my salvation, nor yours. It is all to stir one up in a debate.

Yea i know it is but i just like to see what they say. You get all kinds of crazy answers lol

 

[freedomwriter]

---

Let us examine this more closely, using your bible…

The word: ‘Brethren’…appears over 530 times in the Bible.

‘Brother’…appears over 350 times.

‘Brothers’…appears only once, in Num 36:11.

‘Sister’…appears over 100 times.

‘Sisters’…appears over 15 times.

BRETHREN: This is a plural word for ‘brother’ as shown in dictionaries.

BROTHER: The Hebrew word ‘ACH’, is ordinarily translated ‘brother’. Since Hebrew, and Aramaic in which the Gospel of Matthew was written, had fewer words than our English, the Jews at that time, used it in a broader sense to expresses kinship. The Hebrew terms for different levels and degrees of relationship did not exist. ‘Brother’ meant the sons of the same father, and all the male members of the same clan or tribe. In Greek, in which the Gospel of Mark was written, the word “brother” is “adelphos” (adelphos), meaning a blood brother, or belonging to the same people, or a countryman, or a fellow believer. Even today, the word is used in a larger meaning, so that friends, allies, fellow believers, and fellow citizens can be included in the same brotherhood. It was no different in the time of Christ. Four dictionaries I have checked list three or four classes of meanings of the word ‘brother’. The first class concerns sons of the same parents. The other two or three classes say, kinsman, fellow man, a close friend, a pal, a member of a religious order, a fellow member of a Christian Church, etc. How many times have you seen T.V. Evangelists address their audiences as ‘Our brothers and sisters’? Marian detractors accept the last three meanings to suit themselves, but when it comes to Mary, the mother of GOD, they always refer to the first meaning. Is this fair to her? How do you explain this?
Cathloic Treasurehest

stop this nonsense Bill lol. It is a fact that there are no instances in the NT that adelphos is used for anything else but brothers (blood brothers). Thats it no more.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

In reference to Isaiah 53, “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” Don Hepler wrote earlier,

How can Christ see his seed save he has seed and who shall declare his generation, it is his children who were there at the cross who saw their father on the cross THEY shall declair it, which means he was married they called him rabbi a rabbi cannot be a rabbi except he be married. At the tomb Mary was there, the first to see the Savior, and what did she say My Lord and My master meaning My Lord and My husband. The Master bedroom that we all have means Husbands bedroom. Jesus was married, and had children he fulfilled the Law that was given to ADAM and EVE be fruitful and multiply. It is as it is. Why not ask God if his son was married, Is it not a clear understanding that God is the Father of his Son, Do you think him less of a Man of who he is, to think Jesus was single, Do you think that marriage and having children is a sin. Christ fulfilled the Law and I ask why did Jesus have so many women following him that’s kinda strange. No he was married which was awesome. He is not less of a man in my eyes, HE is greater.

Don,
So what you are saying is that Christ didn’t marry a woman and have children but rather that He ‘married’ humanity – or took His believers to Him as a man takes to himself a wife – by His sacrifice? That His crucifixion was as a marriage ceremony in which He pledged His devotion to His folowers? That His resurrection was like the consumation of the marriage?

If this is what you are saying, or something similar, I would agree. And scripture would suport this concept.

John 12:23-27,
“And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.”

Isaiah 54:1-8,
“Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God. For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.”

Thanks for the insight and inspiration. I may have misunderstood you earlier.

P.S: When I read Isaiah 53 I generally acknowledge that Christ is depicted as undesirable and despised and so when the the question, “and who shall declare his generation?” is posed that it is indicating that Christ has no physical children. That He was deprived of what, at the time Isaiah was writing, is considered the great honor of reproduction and preservation of heriditary genealogy. Then the prophet goes on to explain how that, even though Christ has no children (in the usual sense), that His believers become as His children.