Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[Angelo_Michael]

Don’t jump to the wrong conclusion that fast.
I’m pointing out to what appears to me a trend in society, be it American, British, Spanish, or any other society, in which people is blaming itself of supposedly “sins” or “errors” of past generations. Since I know more of America than England or Spain, I used that phrase, “blame America first.” If it satisfy you, I can rephrase it to be “blame (fill the blank with country of your choice) first.”

To me that seems to be what you are doing, putting the blame on Catholicism of centuries past, for what you consider “wrongs” done by our Church then.

The USA was born in 1776. Some 150 years earlier, the first pilgrims that came to the shores of what now is USA, left England looking for new lands in which to practice their religion, which happens to be… Christianity. Today many Americans consider that the USA has no connection with Christianity. Fine. But you cannot hide nor deny the fact that the USA was founded “by Christians.”

Jesus didn’t left a Church in which the individual has a “green light” to twist God’s words to his own convenience. He left a Church with a head, Peter, to teach and guide the individuals, along and in communion with the Bishops of the Church, to “teach them to fulfill all that I have commanded you. I am with you always until the end of this world.”" - Matthew 28,20

The Church is not averse to the authority the individual has to believe or not what it teaches. But the Church will not, just to satisfy an individual desire, accept that God’s Word can be twisted in as many ways as there are individuals. That’s why I used the analogy to the USA (or fill the blank with country of your choice) Laws. The result will be chaos.

God bless you

There were many natives in America before ever any one came and claimed the land for their own purposes. Remember the parable of the vine and the branches: Peter is not the vine, he is just a branch. Remember that Peter denied knowing the Lord. I can not do this, neither have I done this from my youth until today. Has it made me as popular as the Pope? Not yet, from what I understand, but I must strive to please God rather than individuals. Also, I have done many things Peter has not done, and avoided partnering with others in rebellion such as like for Peter & Paul because I know it is wrong. Do you know any or everything about me? Consider Christ’s comparison of the talents: how one received 1, another received 2 and another received 5. Consider that Christ also took 3 apostles – John, James, and Peter – with Him on several occasions. Was it not the one that received the five and turned it into ten that then received the one that was not invested properly? Did not John receive Christ’s mother? “To the one who has more shall be given, to the one who has not, even shall be taken that which they seem to have.” (paraphrase)

 

[Angelo_Michael]

One evaluation I am considering at the moment is that the perpetual virginity of Mary is like Catholic birth control. A means of persuading followers into abstinence. Perhaps, the lies of Peter in his denial, and the abuses of authority inherent in the discrimination against women promoted by Paul and endorsed by Peter, could have led to the conclusion that lying or misrepresenting someone is acceptable if the conditions are favorable. Now, this argument or theory is not necessarily predicated on scripture, nor am I intending to accuse Mary of breaking any vow. Nevertheless, the integrity, or lack thereof, of the apostles, and especially Christ’s rebuke of Peter, and, perhaps most intriguingly, the sequestering of data in conjuction wirth other [more] impure sources, (for what may be considered or deemed a worthy cause), by the modern Church, has led me to conclude that honesty and fidelity are not always priorities to everyone, nor even to the apostles and/or succesors thereof. Therefore I can not, within the confines of conscience, nor the grace of truth, conclude that the apostolic tradition has infallible merit in regard to Mary’s perpetual virginity, though it may be my desire to do so.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I would not want to risk my soul at finding out. Especially since Christ said this to the ministers He appointed as he was sending them out:

“The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.” Luke 10:16

It is also written:

“They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.” (John 16:2-3)

 

[Janet1983]

So, what exactly does everyone believe these verses mean: John 15:26,John 14:16-17,John 14:26?

It means what it says…

John 15:26 - “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

John 14:16-17 - “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

John 14:26 - “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

Can we deduce that Jesus is promising that the Father will send an Advocate to us, who will lead us into Spirit and Truth?

Yes.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Also John 16:7-16,

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.”

Does anyone remember when Barak Obama said something to the effect of, “That guy with the crystal ball – who tells us how things go – doesn’t exist?” It seemed really ‘fishy’ to me and his election seems to prove that those are the words people want to hear. The secrets I’ve mentioned before are mostly prophecies, and I’ve often claimed to be this Comforter. One of my first open prophecies was [generally] about a planet in outer space, the tsunami, and hurricane Katrina and certain other factors. That was my break-thru prophecy from the time before when I was silent and became, as it were, a portent to future events. It’s like I’ve said before in that I’ve sustained a reasonable amount of brain trauma in my life and, upon introspection, I don’t find I have an evil intent of misleading people that I am aware of. There are many other works as well but I don’t like to talk about it a lot. I don’t like to feel threatened either though. If every-, or any-, one decides they want me dead I don’t suppose I would resist. Just I wonder what would happen sometimes as I have responsibilities that may be difficult to be fulfilled by an alternate person.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

**Concerning, “The Queen of Heaven,”

Consider this excerpt of Jeremiah Chapter 44:**

“1: The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Jews which dwell in the land of Egypt, which dwell at Migdol, and at Tahpanhes, and at Noph, and in the country of Pathros, saying,
2: Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Ye have seen all the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, and upon all the cities of Judah; and, behold, this day they are a desolation, and no man dwelleth therein,
3: Because of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke me to anger, in that they went to burn incense, and to serve other gods, whom they knew not, neither they, ye, nor your fathers.
4: Howbeit I sent unto you all my servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate.
5: But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense unto other gods.
6: Wherefore my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day.
7: Therefore now this saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; Wherefore commit ye this great evil against your souls, to cut off from you man and woman, child and suckling, out of Judah, to leave you none to remain;
8: In that ye provoke me unto wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense unto other gods in the land of Egypt, whither ye be gone to dwell, that ye might cut yourselves off, and that ye might be a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth?
9: Have ye forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, and the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, and your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they have committed in the land of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem?
10: They are not humbled even unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers.
11: Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will set my face against you for evil, and to cut off all Judah.
12: And I will take the remnant of Judah, that have set their faces to go into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, and they shall all be consumed, and fall in the land of Egypt; they shall even be consumed by the sword and by the famine: they shall die, from the least even unto the greatest, by the sword and by the famine: and they shall be an execration, and an astonishment, and a curse, and a reproach.
13: For I will punish them that dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence:
14: So that none of the remnant of Judah, which are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall escape or remain, that they should return into the land of Judah, to the which they have a desire to return to dwell there: for none shall return but such as shall escape.
15: Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
16: As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
17: But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18: But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19: And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20: Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21: The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22: So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
23: Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.
24: Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the LORD, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:
25: Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
26: Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth.
27: Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.
28: Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or theirs.”

I don’t remember being familiar with this phrase, “the queen of heaven,” before in relation to Mary, and when I’ve heard [of] it recently it is difficult to separate the current situation and any implications therof with the history of a past use of the phrase. In a lot of ways it seems like backsliding on the part of religion in that many of Christ’s commandments are treated disrespectfully and something that I have no record of being mandated to be observed or proclaimed is being promoted. The overt similitudes between the aforementioned passage and the/a current title of Mary are reminiscent of the trespassing of Christ’s commandments which, to me, have become somewhat of a signature upon Catholic theology – blatancy.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

I believe you are right, it refers to Jesus having several brothers and sisters this is correct. However If your catholic, we then have some problems, MARY is not a virgin and has not been since she conceived with our Lord. She is not a Virgin.she conceived again and again, except this time it was with Joseph her husband and not with GOD. So to bring in your own (name removed by moderator)ut I would suggest you find a living prophet and ask him to inturpit the scriptures I believe that Mary the mother of Jesus, bore other brothers and we don’t have to twist things around to fit our religion. But that is of course why we have so many religions isn’t it. Blind guides We can make these scriptures say just about anything, can’t we ministers. I can show you where, in the scriptures, that you are all going to HELL. But of course you already know that.

Remember that it is not unheard of for the Lord to hide things from prophets. Consider 2 Kings 4:25-27,

“25: So she went and came unto the man of God to mount Carmel. And it came to pass, when the man of God saw her afar off, that he said to Gehazi his servant, Behold, yonder is that Shunammite:
26: Run now, I pray thee, to meet her, and say unto her, Is it well with thee? is it well with thy husband? is it well with the child? And she answered, It is well.
27: And when she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught him by the feet: but Gehazi came near to thrust her away. And the man of God said, Let her alone; for her soul is vexed within her: and the LORD hath hid it from me, and hath not told me.”

 

[Prieldedi]

There were many natives in America before ever any one came and claimed the land for their own purposes. Remember the parable of the vine and the branches: Peter is not the vine, he is just a branch. Remember that Peter denied knowing the Lord. I can not do this, neither have I done this from my youth until today. Has it made me as popular as the Pope? Not yet, from what I understand, but I must strive to please God rather than individuals. Also, I have done many things Peter has not done, and avoided partnering with others in rebellion such as like for Peter & Paul because I know it is wrong. Do you know any or everything about me? Consider Christ’s comparison of the talents: how one received 1, another received 2 and another received 5. Consider that Christ also took 3 apostles – John, James, and Peter – with Him on several occasions. Was it not the one that received the five and turned it into ten that then received the one that was not invested properly? Did not John receive Christ’s mother? “To the one who has more shall be given, to the one who has not, even shall be taken that which they seem to have.” (paraphrase)

Shall we go all the way back to Adam and Eve? Someone was somewhere before others got there. You can find similar situations in the Bible. The point is that the USA Republic, as it is known today, was founded by Christians. It’s also a fact that the new Republic didn’t declare itself Christian, but Christian values were embedded in their society.

We don’t know a thing about each other, but we try to let ourselves known to each other through our thought expressed in this forum. Unfortunately, this way of communication is not the best one, but we can still manage to carry on a conversation.

God bless you

 

[1beleevr]

This topic of whether or not Mary was a perpetual virgin, or whether she bore other children, has always been, and always will be an interesting, and dynamic issue for debate Both sides claim that they are right, neither side really having rock-solid proof to support their beliefs! For some, it is by oral tradition, to support their(some have called it worship)glorification of Mary. And to support the belief that Mary, and others who have gone on before us; can in fact, intercede for us in prayers of supplication. Jesus tells all of us repeatedly to ask for things in His Name, and that He will interced for us, so why would we need any other mediator/mediatrix? And even though the issue of whether Mary had other children is not part of our salvation, Mary did play a part in the plan of salvation,by carrying the Christ child!

 

[Prieldedi]

**Concerning, “The Queen of Heaven,”

I don’t remember being familiar with this phrase, “the queen of heaven,” before in relation to Mary, and when I’ve heard [of] it recently it is difficult to separate the current situation and any implications therof with the history of a past use of the phrase. In a lot of ways it seems like backsliding on the part of religion in that many of Christ’s commandments are treated disrespectfully and something that I have no record of being mandated to be observed or proclaimed is being promoted. The overt similitudes between the aforementioned passage and the/a current title of Mary are reminiscent of the trespassing of Christ’s commandments which, to me, have become somewhat of a signature upon Catholic theology – blatancy.**

How many wives did the Kings of the OT have? Let’s look at King David: 2 Samuel 5:13, “And David took more concubines and wives of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were born to David other sons also and daughters.”

And King Solomon: 1 Kings 11:1, King Solomon: “And king Solomon loved many strange women, besides the daughter of Pharao, and women of Moab, and of Ammon, and of Edom, and of Sidon, and of the Hethites:” 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon: “He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.”

The question here is, which of the wives was the Queen?

The answer is that the Queen was not the wife of the King, it was the Mother of the King.
Bathsheba, the wife of King David, was not his Queen, 1 Kings 1:16, “Bathsheba bowed herself, and worshipped the king. And the king said to her: What is thy will?”

Completely different from the Bathsheba as the mother of King Solomon: 1 Kings 2:19, “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.”
Only the Queens sat at the side of the Kings.

Furthermore, “My Lord” is a title of royalty. In the OT there are many references to this title. 1 Samuel 24:8, “And David also rose up after him: and going out of the cave, cried after Saul, saying: my lord the king. And Saul looked behind him: and David bowing himself down to the ground, worshipped.” You’ll find Kings being called “my Lord” also here: 1 Samuel 25:25, 1 Samuel 26:17, 1 Samuel 26:19, 2 Samuel 3:21, 2 Samuel 24:20-21.

In the NT, we have Elizabeth saying in Luke 1:43, “How is it that the mother of my Lord comes to me?”

Also, John 18:36-37, “Jesus answered: My kingship does not come from this world. If I were king like those of this world, my guards would have fought to save me from being handed over to the Jews. But my kingship is not from here. Pilate asked him: So you are a king? And Jesus answered: Just as you say, I am a king. For this I was born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of truth hears my voice.”

With this is mind, who is our King? Jesus.
Who is our King’s Mother? Mary.
Who is then our Queen? Mary.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of the King of Kings, that makes her the Queen Mother. We know that Jesus’ kingdom “does not come from this world”, it’s in Heaven; that makes the Blessed Virgin Mary “the Queen of Heaven.”

“The New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is revealed in the new.”
Saint Augustine. 354-430 A.D.

God bless you

 

[Prieldedi]

It means what it says…

John 15:26 - “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

John 14:16-17 - “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

John 14:26 - “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.

It’s interesting to note here Jesus is talking ONLY to His Disciples, to His Leaders, those who would very soon embark on the mission to spread the Gospel even to the ends of the Earth:
Acts 1:8, “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, even to the ends of the earth.”

Put together Acts 1:8 with this one:
Romans 10:14-15, “But how can they call upon the name of the Lord without having believed in him? And how can they believe in him without having first heard about him? And how will they hear about him if no one preaches about him? And how will they preach about him if no one sends them? As Scripture says: How beautiful to see those coming to bring good news.”

Jesus sent His Disciples with authority to teach, to preach. The Disciples received “the Good News” first hand from Jesus Himself. No one else could “preach” unless they were instructed by the Disciples. This is how the Apostolic Succession started. And how will they preach about him if no one sends them?

Hebrew 5:4, “Besides, one does not presume to take this dignity, but takes it only when called by God, as Aaron was.”

I’m not saying nor denying that all Christians can receive the Holy Spirit, but I want to make the point here that Jesus is entrusting the spread of the Gospel to a few, who would be led by the Holy Spirit until the end of times, because they were the ones that received the Gospel from Him. This leadership has been transferred by the Apostolic Succession for 2000 years, and counting…

God bless you

 

[Janet1983]

It’s interesting to note here Jesus is talking ONLY to His Disciples,

We are all His disciples, so what is it you wanted to say?
Do you think that God will save someone He cannot command? Of course it is just about His disciples… The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.
We are being called… Every single Christian is one of those who are called out of the world by God. Jesus declared “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” in John 6:44.
We are drawn to the Lord and we have been given the Great Commission:
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
Till today we see missionaries in all the world do exactly that… teach and baptize.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

How many wives did the Kings of the OT have? Let’s look at King David: 2 Samuel 5:13, “And David took more concubines and wives of Jerusalem, after he was come from Hebron: and there were born to David other sons also and daughters.”

And King Solomon: 1 Kings 11:1, King Solomon: “And king Solomon loved many strange women, besides the daughter of Pharao, and women of Moab, and of Ammon, and of Edom, and of Sidon, and of the Hethites:” 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon: “He had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.”

The question here is, which of the wives was the Queen?

The answer is that the Queen was not the wife of the King, it was the Mother of the King.
Bathsheba, the wife of King David, was not his Queen, 1 Kings 1:16, “Bathsheba bowed herself, and worshipped the king. And the king said to her: What is thy will?”

Completely different from the Bathsheba as the mother of King Solomon: 1 Kings 2:19, “So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.”
Only the Queens sat at the side of the Kings.

Furthermore, “My Lord” is a title of royalty. In the OT there are many references to this title. 1 Samuel 24:8, “And David also rose up after him: and going out of the cave, cried after Saul, saying: my lord the king. And Saul looked behind him: and David bowing himself down to the ground, worshipped.” You’ll find Kings being called “my Lord” also here: 1 Samuel 25:25, 1 Samuel 26:17, 1 Samuel 26:19, 2 Samuel 3:21, 2 Samuel 24:20-21.

In the NT, we have Elizabeth saying in Luke 1:43, “How is it that the mother of my Lord comes to me?”

Also, John 18:36-37, “Jesus answered: My kingship does not come from this world. If I were king like those of this world, my guards would have fought to save me from being handed over to the Jews. But my kingship is not from here. Pilate asked him: So you are a king? And Jesus answered: Just as you say, I am a king. For this I was born and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is on the side of truth hears my voice.”

With this is mind, who is our King? Jesus.
Who is our King’s Mother? Mary.
Who is then our Queen? Mary.

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of the King of Kings, that makes her the Queen Mother. We know that Jesus’ kingdom “does not come from this world”, it’s in Heaven; that makes the Blessed Virgin Mary “the Queen of Heaven.”

“The New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is revealed in the new.”
Saint Augustine. 354-430 A.D.

God bless you

I understand this argument and I am glad you have elucidated it. Nonetheless, it is still not ethical, from my point of view, to justify the calling of Peter or his succesor(s), “Holy Father.” And, in the context of this situation, one is left to question if there are attenuating motives attached to the devotion to Mary. Also, if it (the devotion) is rebelliously – i.e. via repetitive prayer – verbal, one must then also question the authenticity of that devotion and the ends to which one is intending the behavior. Is it to justify the title of the Pope? Is then the doctrine of perpetual virginity intended to excuse the Pope from any malediction associated with the title? For, otherwise, it would appear as though Mary, the Queen of Heaven, has many husbands because those claiming to be, or allowing themselves to be addressed as, “[Holy] Father,” would therefore be [like] her husband. And this would lead to an inference associated with the trespassing against Dinah that was avenged by Simeon and Levi, who justified that act by saying, “…] Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot? (Gen. 34:31)]” So, the innocence of the Church is lost in it’s trespassing the Covenant; and other inferences could be made if the Church has partaken in authorizing divorce for less than the required sin(s). For, it was in a question posed to Christ, that a woman having many husbands is fabricated, and therefore, the perpetual virginity of Mary may have also been toward this aim – to disguise the trespasses of not adhering to Christ’s teachings or accepting His authority. Nonetheless, the re-enactment of the following scriptural scenario seems inherent in an assumption of the title, “Holy Father.”

Matthew Chapter 22:

“23: The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
24: Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
25: Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
26: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
27: And last of all the woman died also.
28: Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
29: Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30: For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31: But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32: I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

 

[1beleevr]

prieldedi: You are right as to whom Jesus was talking to at that time; He had chosen the 12 disciples, who would go forth,"As the Father has sent me , so now I send you."But as they baptized, and new believers were added to the growing multitude, the believers were charged with spreading the Good News:thumbsup: Today we are charged with continuing the Great Commission, to go forth and make disciples! And it’s interesting, that sometimes you’re the teacher, and sometimes you are the student! We all do, and should learn from each other, and from our leaders, priests, popes, pastors, etc,. The catholic church has not cornered the market on teaching, the Gospel is available to ALL!!!

 

[Prieldedi]

We are all His disciples, so what is it you wanted to say?
Do you think that God will save someone He cannot command? Of course it is just about His disciples… The Holy Spirit is our Comforter.
We are being called… Every single Christian is one of those who are called out of the world by God. Jesus declared “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” in John 6:44.
We are drawn to the Lord and we have been given the Great Commission:
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
Till today we see missionaries in all the world do exactly that… teach and baptize.

The Magisterium of the Church. The Authority of the Church entrusted by Christ Himself to His Apostles with Peter at the head.

The title of this thread is “Jesus was an only son… Mary did not have more children!!” Why do we have two opposing views to this subject? Because some decided 500 years ago that the Church lacked that Authority, that it didn’t have the Deposit of the Faith. Even though they never doubted that Mary had only one Son, some of their successors believe otherwise today.

Knowing that Jesus sent these men to preach the Good News, that they received His Authority, totally, 100%, is why I believe their successors today.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430)

God bless you

 

[Prieldedi]

prieldedi: You are right as to whom Jesus was talking to at that time; He had chosen the 12 disciples, who would go forth,"As the Father has sent me , so now I send you."But as they baptized, and new believers were added to the growing multitude, the believers were charged with spreading the Good News:thumbsup: Today we are charged with continuing the Great Commission, to go forth and make disciples! And it’s interesting, that sometimes you’re the teacher, and sometimes you are the student! We all do, and should learn from each other, and from our leaders, priests, popes, pastors, etc,. The catholic church has not cornered the market on teaching, the Gospel is available to ALL!!!

The problem is that not all who think they are “teachers”, really are. I cannot proclaim myself to be a university teacher. I have to go through a process, studies, exams, Master, PHD, who knows what else, to become a university teacher. And for that matter, for any profession, which are “professions of the world”.

Why then, is it so “simple” to become a teacher of the Bible, a “teacher” of God’s matters? Some churches have some sort of studies, exams, etc., but today anyone can just grab his Bible and go out in the street and … there you have a new “Bible teacher”, with a new church, and most likely, many followers.

Through the passages quoted before we can see that not just anyone can become a teacher. Those “first teachers (the Apostles)” had to appoint others as a teachers, and those in turn to new ones… until the present day. That’s called Apostolic Succession. And it’s biblical…

God bless you

 

[Angelo_Michael]

The truth, for me, is that *I do not know *whether Mary had other children or not. Since Peter lied and the Church rebels against Christ I can no longer trust their opinion so as to say, “I know the truth because I heard it from them.” From my experiences, even from my earliest years, I recognized that I was perhaps more gullible than others. And when brain injury was added to that, I became somewhat insecure of my ability to discern reality from fiction. From my reading of the scriptures I have witnessed – as I have testified to in former replies at this thread – a possibility that God may be authorized to deceive, withold information from, or test His prophets. I apologize if I have not been able to be more helpful to the resolving of this matter.

 

[Janet1983]

The Magisterium of the Church. The Authority of the Church entrusted by Christ Himself to His Apostles with Peter at the head.

The title of this thread is “Jesus was an only son… Mary did not have more children!!” Why do we have two opposing views to this subject? Because some decided 500 years ago that the Church lacked that Authority, that it didn’t have the Deposit of the Faith. Even though they never doubted that Mary had only one Son, some of their successors believe otherwise today.

Knowing that Jesus sent these men to preach the Good News, that they received His Authority, totally, 100%, is why I believe their successors today.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430)

God bless you

Why? Because we claim different authorities…
The magisterium of the
cChurch? The Authority of the church entrusted by Christ Himself to His apostles with Peter at the head? (Apart from the fact that Jesus Christ is the head of His Church…)
I prefer the authority of the Bible over the “magisterium” or the pope…
That is the main reason why I disagree. I tend to go the direct route to the Word of God to find what is true and right. I do not need a “magisterium” to tell me what I read when I read it…

 

[Prieldedi]

The truth, for me, is that *I do not know *whether Mary had other children or not. Since Peter lied and the Church rebels against Christ I can no longer trust their opinion so as to say, “I know the truth because I heard it from them.” From my experiences, even from my earliest years, I recognized that I was perhaps more gullible than others. And when brain injury was added to that, I became somewhat insecure of my ability to discern reality from fiction. From my reading of the scriptures I have witnessed – as I have testified to in former replies at this thread – a possibility that God may be authorized to deceive, withold information from, or test His prophets. I apologize if I have not been able to be more helpful to the resolving of this matter.

Peter lied before Jesus Crucifixion, before the Resurrection, before Pentecost; he lied three times and three times only. He didn’t lie again.

The day of the Resurrection a young man tells Mary of Magdala, Mary the Mother of James and Salome in Mark 16:7, “Now go and tell his disciples and Peter: Jesus is going ahead of you to Galilee; you will see him there just as he told you.”
Why does Jesus want to see Peter specially? Peter denied Him three times but Jesus still wants to see him. The reason is that Jesus had great plans for him.

As to Mary having more children… why did it take almost 1600-1700 years until this new doctrine emerged in the Protestant camp? Because also from another set of new doctrines introduced in the 1500s, personal interpretation & “only the Bible”, individuals were confused with the terms “brethren of the Lord” and “brothers and sisters” of Jesus. The only institution, then as today, that has its roots planted in the year 1 AD is the Catholic Church but, “by default”, they were not going to believe Her. After all, the Church was called by them “the whore of Babylon”. But She was the one to put this matter at rest.

So, who do you believe? Who do you trust? I trust and believe my Church, “the Church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). Do you know that Luke left 5 icons (paintings) of Mary and not of Jesus? Why of Mary and not of Jesus, the Master? You can find them in several Orthodox Churches. Check it here and here.

God is not a God of confusion. You and I might not understand Him at times. That’s why Jesus left us His Church, so She would lead, preach and teach us His Gospel. And He said that He would be with it “until the end of the world”. I can clearly accept Peter as a liar those three times, but I cannot see Jesus lying. He doesn’t lie, He didn’t lie. And when He speaks, He does it through the Church. And if the Church tells us that even from the early days of Christianity all Christians knew that Mary was Ever Virgin, I have to accept it because it’s God speaking through His Church, not men.

God bless you

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Peter lied before Jesus Crucifixion, before the Resurrection, before Pentecost; he lied three times and three times only. He didn’t lie again.

The day of the Resurrection a young man tells Mary of Magdala, Mary the Mother of James and Salome in Mark 16:7, “Now go and tell his disciples and Peter: Jesus is going ahead of you to Galilee; you will see him there just as he told you.”
Why does Jesus want to see Peter specially? Peter denied Him three times but Jesus still wants to see him. The reason is that Jesus had great plans for him.

As to Mary having more children… why did it take almost 1600-1700 years until this new doctrine emerged in the Protestant camp? Because also from another set of new doctrines introduced in the 1500s, personal interpretation & “only the Bible”, individuals were confused with the terms “brethren of the Lord” and “brothers and sisters” of Jesus. The only institution, then as today, that has its roots planted in the year 1 AD is the Catholic Church but, “by default”, they were not going to believe Her. After all, the Church was called by them “the whore of Babylon”. But She was the one to put this matter at rest.

So, who do you believe? Who do you trust? I trust and believe my Church, “the Church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). Do you know that Luke left 5 icons (paintings) of Mary and not of Jesus? Why of Mary and not of Jesus, the Master? You can find them in several Orthodox Churches. Check it here and here.

God is not a God of confusion. You and I might not understand Him at times. That’s why Jesus left us His Church, so She would lead, preach and teach us His Gospel. And He said that He would be with it “until the end of the world”. I can clearly accept Peter as a liar those three times, but I cannot see Jesus lying. He doesn’t lie, He didn’t lie. And when He speaks, He does it through the Church. And if the Church tells us that even from the early days of Christianity all Christians knew that Mary was Ever Virgin, I have to accept it because it’s God speaking through His Church, not men.

God bless you

Mostly, I can’t trust the Church because of recent circumstances, which, I hope and/or pray, Peter would disapprove of. Nevertheless, I’ve already addressed the validity of covenants in conjunction to the pertinent scripture. Also, by your argument, you must then needs be justifying the persecution of Sapphira, and making invalid the warnings of Christ. For, if the covenant could not be disanulled, if the branches could not fall, then why say so?

You mention Luke, and I would like you to consider Luke 11:21-22,
“When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

and Matthew 10:32-33,
“Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”

and also Deut. 28:13-14,
“And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”

I don’t have Peter as the ‘head’ but rather John. To me, Peter is like the neck, and Paul is the tail – even one that could be cut off. [How did he not know to dash his foot against the stone?] Also, remember that what Christ said to John happened after Peter’s denial – that Saul was king before David.

I suppose Christ was concerned for Peter because He knew Satan desired to “have him” and maybe wanted to address him about his lying, which he did when he asked him 3 times if he loved Him. But Peter grew intolerant, and may have spoken harshly, indicating a light-heartedness about his sin. I don’t suppose I could take that so well myself.

Are you disappointed because I told you, “I do not know,” or because I am not educated enough [in your opinion]?