Jesus was an only son.. Mary did not have more children!!

[guanophore]

Perhaps people would call me a Cafeteria Catholic because I hold what the Bible says and always will.

No, tweety. It is because you have embraced non-Catholic teachings, resist the Teachings of the Church, and hold personal interpretations of the Bible that are non-Catholic.

Catholics also believe in what the bible says, and always will (I hope and pray), but we understand what is written in the light of those who wrote it. We interpret Scripture through the lens of Apostolic Teaching, some of which you seem to have rejected, or never learned.

There are a lot of things I doon’t adhere to but remain a Catholic. I see my self as a Bible believing Christian who goes to Catholic Church for various reasons.

Yes.

Glad to hear you being honest about this. You are, in fact, a Protestant. All "cafeteria catholics’ are really Protestants, they just dont realize it. Going to Catholic Church doesnt’ make you Catholic any more than sitting in a garage will make you a car. What makes a person Catholic is embracing the doctrines that were entrusted to the Church by the Apostles.

Oh I have only been persecuted on CAF not anywhere else… I’ve benn calles all sort of things and told I was going to hell here, but it doesn’t matter cause I love Jesus and all who love our Lord in how ever way that they do.

It is very possible that the people that have had interaction with you, and classes, are even less educated in the faith than you are.

However, it is not appropriate for anyone to be told they are going to hell. That is in the hands of God, and none of us. The best that can be done is to advise you that you have embraced heresies.

 

[guanophore]

tweetymom: It does seem a bit odd that you would say that you have felt persecution from your own church

tweety left the church a long time ago. A series of personal family experiences seemed to lead her back, but she brought her Protestant mentality with her. She is now masquerading as a Catholic while pandering non-Catholic ideas. I find it quite disingenuous.’

You position is one of more integrity. You reject the Teachings of the Catholic Church because you openly believe they did not come from the Apostles.

when the natural inclination would be to believe that your church would lift you up and build you up

It is not loving to confirm people in their error. That is like watching someone heading toward a cliff , wave, smile, and say “nice to see you!” as they lose their footing and go over the edge.

 

[guanophore]

Not all Catholics believe 100% in the Bible and I do thats why.

I agree with you about Catholics. There are many that don’t read, study, and pray scripture as they should, and it is good that you are a postive role model in this, as are many of our separated brethren. However, you believe what you think the bible means,a nd reject some of the meanings that were passed down to us from the Apsotles.

So I was told that I was going to hell for my belief not on this thread or my Church but on some threads.

This is inappropriate, and you should go to that post, and use the report icon at the upper right. The mods will counsel and sanction the offender so that behavior can be corrected.

And big T or little t matters not a whole lot I know Jesus and I don’t need tradition to tell me what I should believe or not.

This statement is an excellent example of the anti-catholic perspective that you are bringing.

 

[Mannyfit75]

tweetymom
So I was told that I was going to hell for my belief not on this thread or my Church but on some threads

No human being on earth who can decide who goes to hell. That alone is between God and how He judges you on your own deeds. You do have the fundamental right to disagree with Catholic Church teachings but have you ever ponder these words from Jesus Christ when he spoke to newly appointed 70 disciples, “He who hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me. He who rejects me, rejects the one who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

So ask yourself the this question, tweetymom. “If you believe everything that Jesus said (such as the one posted above me), then why doyou not accept all of the Catholic Church teachings?”

 

[tweetymom]

No human being on earth who can decide who goes to hell. That alone is between God and how He judges you on your own deeds. You do have the fundamental right to disagree with Catholic Church teachings but have you ever ponder these words from Jesus Christ when he spoke to newly appointed 70 disciples, “He who hears you, hears me, he who rejects you, rejects me. He who rejects me, rejects the one who sent me.” (Luke 10:16)

So ask yourself the this question, tweetymom. “If you believe everything that Jesus said (such as the one posted above me), then why doyou not accept all of the Catholic Church teachings?”

Because I believe what the Bible says and always will. You say you believe it too but traditions too. Well sometimes traditions contradict things in the Bible> I spent 10 years studying, the Bible and that Is what I chose to embrace myself with, that and the love of Christ. I wish you would all go to the thread " Does arguing help" Read Br. JR’s responses ’

 

[tweetymom]

I agree with you about Catholics. There are many that don’t read, study, and pray scripture as they should, and it is good that you are a postive role model in this, as are many of our separated brethren. However, you believe what you think the bible means,a nd reject some of the meanings that were passed down to us from the Apsotles.

This is inappropriate, and you should go to that post, and use the report icon at the upper right. The mods will counsel and sanction the offender so that behavior can be corrected.

This statement is an excellent example of the anti-catholic perspective that you are bringing.

And you believe what you do why? you do not have anymore proof than I when you read the meaning passed down. You believe them because you chose to. And as far as being a cafeteria Catholic you just think you know what I am and assume because I don’t agree with some of the things you say. Its ok with me to disagree and I do so in Christ’s love

 

[guanophore]

Because I believe what the Bible says and always will.

the problem lies not in yoru faith in the inerrant and inspired Word of God, tweety. The problem lies in your perception of it. You are reading it with a Protestant framework, so you understand it with a Protestant bias. If you were to read it with the Apostolic framework (the point of view of those who wrote it) then you would understand it with catholicity.

 You say you believe it too but traditions too. Well sometimes traditions contradict things in the Bible>

No, tweety. There are no Sacred Traditions that contradict the Holy Scriptures. They come from the same Source, so they cannot contradict each other. The only thing here that is contradictory are your perceptions.

I spent 10 years studying, the Bible and that Is what I chose to embrace myself with, that and the love of Christ.'

Yes, and you are to be commended for embracing and steeping yourself in scripture. However, you did this under the heresies that have arisen from the Reformation, and that is why your understanding of scripture is contaminated. If you are really serious about being Catholic, as you claim to be, then you will set about supplementing your 10 years of Bible study with 10 years of Apostolic Faith. I am sure it will not even take that long for you to identify where your perceptions have departed from what the Apostles believed and taught. A cursory reading of the Early Fathers makes it clear that the Church founded by Christ is Catholic. Among the beliefs committed to the Church by the Apostles is that she mothered only one physical child, and that she remained chasted until her days on earth were ended.

 

[guanophore]

And you believe what you do why?

Becuase I have believed in the Scriptures, that God is able to preserve His word in the Church, and that He has led the Church into all Truth. I do not believe, as you apparently do, that He was weak or faithless, and abandoned the promises He made to prevent the Church from passing through the gates of hell. I believe what is written in the scriptures differently because I read them through the Apostolic lens. I have accepted that the Word of God has come down to us both by letter, and by the traditions that were delivered to the Church by the Apostles.

you do not have anymore proof than I when you read the meaning passed down. You believe them because you chose to.

I think I probably do have more “proofs”, having spent three years in seminary and having studied in detail the historical documents of the Church. However, I agree with you, my faith is based on my choice, and not “proofs”. Jesus has proven Himself to me personally, and I believe that He did just as He promised to do. I believe He did not leave His Church orphaned, and that He has led His Holy Bride into “all Truth” as He told them He would. These things are in the Bible,a nd I believe them all.

And as far as being a cafeteria Catholic you just think you know what I am and assume  because I don't agree with some of the things you say. Its ok with me to disagree and I do so in Christ's love :thumbsup:

You are right, I cannot judge your heart. I can only exercise discernment about what you have written here. You have been writing anti-Catholic posts since you arrived, and claimed to be Catholic, though you appear to pick and choose what you will accept of the Catholic faith. For all I know, nothing about what you have claimed about yourself is true, and you are just role playing for fun.

 

[tweetymom]

Becuase I have believed in the Scriptures, that God is able to preserve His word in the Church, and that He has led the Church into all Truth. I do not believe, as you apparently do, that He was weak or faithless, and abandoned the promises He made to prevent the Church from passing through the gates of hell. I believe what is written in the scriptures differently because I read them through the Apostolic lens. I have accepted that the Word of God has come down to us both by letter, and by the traditions that were delivered to the Church by the Apostles.

I think I probably do have more “proofs”, having spent three years in seminary and having studied in detail the historical documents of the Church. However, I agree with you, my faith is based on my choice, and not “proofs”. Jesus has proven Himself to me personally, and I believe that He did just as He promised to do. I believe He did not leave His Church orphaned, and that He has led His Holy Bride into “all Truth” as He told them He would. These things are in the Bible,a nd I believe them all.

You are right, I cannot judge your heart. I can only exercise discernment about what you have written here. You have been writing anti-Catholic posts since you arrived, and claimed to be Catholic, though you appear to pick and choose what you will accept of the Catholic faith. For all I know, nothing about what you have claimed about yourself is true, and you are just role playing for fun.

My husband also spent time in the seminary and so he also knows somethings as you do, the key word here is think. So you are no different than I and we both can agree on the word choice. I know in my heart that Jesus has proven himself to me also, so we ar even there. And sometimes a lot he agrees with me and sometimes he doesn’t and thats great!

And you are right again that you do not know my heart and I do not know yours. I am not writting anti Catholic posts and I don’t claim to be Catholic I am!!! If I don’t agree with everything and if you call it pick and choose then thats ok with me. I don’t pick and choose what I know Jesus is all about!

Well it goes to show that you really know nothing at all I am not claiming anything false about myself. And I don’t know how to play act when it comes to Jesus in my life!!!
I have never claimed to be somethig that I am not. I am a Christian Bible reading and believing Catholic who has Jesus in her heart and does not judge others because they worship different than I do.

You have a great day and God Bless you in your journey with our Saviour

 

[1beleevr]

guan: I have never said that I don’t believe that what the apostles said was true Just because I have differences of opinion with people of different faiths, does not mean I don’t believe what Jesus said is not true. And I was not confirming tweety’s error, just commenting on something she expressed as a concern! I know that churches and individuals can convey the message that if you don’t do or believe certain things, that you are going to Hell, whether it is openly stated or implied. I can say this, because I have heard it, from pastors, and others in church hierarchy! I myself was told that you could only see the Kingdom of God, if you were catholic I don’t know tweetymom, but it does sound like she has a passion for Christ, and the Word of God, even though she doesn’t conform to the catholic ways. I mean just because I don’t believe in going to confession, doesn’t mean you don’t have to Doesn’t mean I’m going to Hell because I don’t. But, believe me, ther are people out there from every religious persuasion, playing God, tellingpeople that if they don’t do this or that, they’re going to Hell. I know for sure that I’ll see you in Heaven, right?

 

[Libertarian_FL]

I will base a response simply this way. Nowhere does the scriptures, Jesus Himself or any of His disciples say Jesus was an only child or had biolgical brothers and sisters. So its totally mute on the subject.

But there are evidences that He may have had them.

Luke 8:19-21
19 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see him, but they couldn’t get to him because of the crowd. 20 Someone told Jesus, “Your mother and your brothers are outside, and they want to see you.”
21 Jesus replied, “My mother and my brothers are all those who hear God’s word and obey it.” [NLT]

Verse 19 can easily imply he had brothers and since His mother was there that would imply that further.

I can cite other related references but I’m just pointing out could say these were religious brothers as in followers or disciples OR biolgical brothers.

In any case does it matter really Protestants say he had siblings and Roman Catholics not.

 

[SonofMonica]

I am sure the writers never imagined that the Holy Writings would be separated from the Sacred Tradition which formed them. All the writings are directed toward those who received the Apostolic Teaching. It would never occur to them that people would abandon the Apostolic Teaching then try to re-imagine what occurred by using the texts in isolation from the Source that produced them.

Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen and Amen.

 

[Arandur]

I will base a response simply this way. Nowhere does the scriptures, Jesus Himself or any of His disciples say Jesus was an only child or had biolgical brothers and sisters. So its totally mute on the subject.

As that Orthodox link earlier points out, the original language, along with customs of the time, actually shows that the Bible is also mute on the subject of whether Joseph and Mary ever actually got married.

Of course, that’s also why one cannot separate the Bible from the Church and Sacred Tradition of which it is part.

I can cite other related references but I’m just pointing out could say these were religious brothers as in followers or disciples OR biolgical brothers.

OR you could look at the original language and see that the term used is as imprecise as “kin” or “cousin.”

In any case does it matter really Protestants say he had siblings and Roman Catholics not.

The first Protestant reformers thought Mary’s perpetual virginity was quite important, sacrosanct, even blasphemy to speak against.

It’s not essential for salvation, but Truth, God’s plans, and life within the Kingdom are all important things not to be ignored. Knowing them deepens our belonging to the Family of God.

 

[Libertarian_FL]

Thats odd Jesus never once, not once, said His mother was a virgin if it was so important and He was a single child I would think Jesus would have mentioned that. He is perfect, flawless and the Son that precludes Him not including necessary details to His perfection. Unless your saying the Son of God intentionally left things out of His message so vital?

I will say this if Jesus didn’t make this an issue and in fact never mentioned it then its not an issue for Him, and shouldn’t be for us.

 

[guanophore]

And sometimes a lot he agrees with me and sometimes he doesn’t and thats great!

Maybe you will be willing to allow your husband to help you out of some of your anti-Catholic ideas?

I am not writting anti Catholic posts and I don’t claim to be Catholic I am!!! If I don’t agree with everything and if you call it pick and choose then thats ok with me. I don’t pick and choose what I know Jesus is all about!

Yes, tweety, you do write a number of anti-Catholic posts. I have read them. Yes, you do claim to be Catholic, though your faith is not Catholic. Catholics do not espouse teachings that are contrary to the Church teachings. To the extent that you do this, your faith is not Catholic.

Yes, I do call it “pick and choose” as some call it “cafeteria catholic”. It is more properly termed “protestant”. Your posts reflect a Protestant faith. Of course you pick and choose what you believe Jesus is all about! And when you choose your own perceptions over and above what the Church teaches, then you choose a faith that was not espoused by the Apostles.

Well it goes to show that you really know nothing at all

I don’t know anything about you. I know that your posts reflect non-Catholic faith.

I have never claimed to be somethig that I am not. I am a Christian Bible reading and believing Catholic who has Jesus in her heart and does not judge others because they worship different than I do.

Your perceptions of what the Bible says are anti-Catholic in some areas. Your faith has been pulled away from Catholicism by spending so many years among Protestants.
It is not necessary to “judge” anyone to discern this. The Catholic teachings are clear, and your posts indicate that you depart from them.

For example, Jesus was an only son. Mary did not have any more children. This is the teaching that we have from the Apostles. Interpreting any passages apart from the Teachings of the Apostles will result in error.

 

[guanophore]

guan: I have never said that I don’t believe that what the apostles said was true Just because I have differences of opinion with people of different faiths, does not mean I don’t believe what Jesus said is not true.

Yes, you have said many times that you don’t believe what the Apostles said was true. I understand that you don’t see it that way. You just don’t trust the Sacred Tradition as valid, and you seem to believe that Jesus is too weak or disinterested to preserve His Word in the Church as well as in the Holy Scriptures.

Individuals can convey the message that if you don’t do or believe certain things, that you are going to Hell, whether it is openly stated or implied. I can say this, because I have heard it, from pastors, and others in church hierarchy!

Yes, sadly, this is true. I have heard it from many Catholics on this forum. I just wanted to be clear that this is not Catholic teaching.

I myself was told that you could only see the Kingdom of God, if you were catholic:eek:

This is a true statement. The reason that you, and many of our separated brethren have such a great Kingdom experience is because you have embraced a large portion of the Catholic faith. You don’t recognize it as such, and call it “biblical faith”, but to the extent that you interpret the Bible the way the Aposltes intended, your faith is Catholic.

I don’t know tweetymom, but it does sound like she has a passion for Christ, and the Word of God, even though she doesn’t conform to the catholic ways.

I can’;t comment on her “ways”, either. Her practices may also be as non-Catholic as her posts. However, I will certainly affirm the passion for Christ that you both share.

I think of people like the two of you similar to Apollos. Fervent, but uninformed.

I know for sure that I'll see you in Heaven, right?

Catholics do not presume to make judgment before the time. Were were taught by the Apostles that this is not mature.

 

[guanophore]

In any case does it matter really Protestants say he had siblings and Roman Catholics not.

Yes, the Truth matters, always and everywhere. The Catholic Church is not 'Roman", and neither is the doctrine of the perpetual virginity. All churches founded by Apostles embrace this teaching, including those not in union with the Bishop of Rome.

Catholics have received the faith from the Apostles. Most Protestants extract faith from the scriptures after having separated from the faith of the Apostles in 1600. Most modern day evangelicals do not even realize that they have embraced heretical beliefs, and doctrines never held or taught by the apostles. They believe the extractions from scripture that occurred in the 1600’s are the same as what the Apostles believed and taught. This is why it is said “to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant”.

 

[tweetymom]

Maybe you will be wi
P.S. Below are a couple of links for You!!!

answers.com/topic/mount-schwerdtfeger

answers.com/topic/schwerdtfeger

bing.com/reference/semhtml/Mount_Schwerdtfeger?q=mount+schwerdtfeger
lling to allow your husband to help you out of some of your anti-Catholic ideas?

Yes, tweety, you do write a number of anti-Catholic posts. I have read them. Yes, you do claim to be Catholic, though your faith is not Catholic. Catholics do not espouse teachings that are contrary to the Church teachings. To the extent that you do this, your faith is not Catholic.

Yes, I do call it “pick and choose” as some call it “cafeteria catholic”. It is more properly termed “protestant”. Your posts reflect a Protestant faith. Of course you pick and choose what you believe Jesus is all about! And when you choose your own perceptions over and above what the Church teaches, then you choose a faith that was not espoused by the Apostles.

I don’t know anything about you. I know that your posts reflect non-Catholic faith.

Your perceptions of what the Bible says are anti-Catholic in some areas. Your faith has been pulled away from Catholicism by spending so many years among Protestants.
It is not necessary to “judge” anyone to discern this. The Catholic teachings are clear, and your posts indicate that you depart from them.

For example, Jesus was an only son. Mary did not have any more children. This is the teaching that we have from the Apostles. Interpreting any passages apart from the Teachings of the Apostles will result in error.

I am not anti Catholic and you can think what you want. What matters to me is what Jesus thinks. An d my time spent with the Protestants was a lot more Christ like than I have found somethings here to be.

As far as my husband .
, he went to Catholic school, was an altar boy, went to seminary and still is a devout Catholic. When I met him he believed in a lot of the things I do and we never have a disagreement at all. If I don’t agree or if he does no we respect one another. Some of such I don’t find here. You may think they are anti Catholic post and they maybe. I think that you are not my judge but I do thank you for your attempt at being so. Like I said before I REALLY don’t care what you think, you are not God, and I praise Jesus for that:thumbsup:

 

[guanophore]

As that Orthodox link earlier points out, the original language, along with customs of the time, actually shows that the Bible is also mute on the subject of whether Joseph and Mary ever actually got married.

Ok, let me get this straight. God appears to Joseph in a dream, and tells Joseph not to be afraid to marry her, and you think Joseph ignored the angel? You think when Scirpture says Joseph took her into his home, it meant…what?

'when the angel warned Joseph to take the child and go to Egypt, they did not go as a married couple? I think you underestimate the scandal of the culture. Even today, in countries that have these practices, single women are not permitted to travel without a male relative. that is one reason that the brethren of Jesus went with His mother to find Him. She was not to travel alone.

OR you could look at the original language and see that the term used is as imprecise as “kin” or “cousin.”

Most of them don’t know that Matt was written first in Aramaic, then translated to Gk, or that there is not word for “cousin” in Aramiac, or even half brother.

The first Protestant reformers thought Mary’s perpetual virginity was quite important, sacrosanct, even blasphemy to speak against.

It’s not essential for salvation, but Truth, God’s plans, and life within the Kingdom are all important things not to be ignored. Knowing them deepens our belonging to the Family of God.

I can’t see how you get that Truth is not important to salvation. when you start making concessions on one part of the truth, the whole weaving begins to unravel.

Thats odd Jesus never once, not once, said His mother was a virgin if it was so important and He was a single child I would think Jesus would have mentioned that. He is perfect, flawless and the Son that precludes Him not including necessary details to His perfection. Unless your saying the Son of God intentionally left things out of His message so vital?

I don’t find it odd at all. I don’t think Jesus had any intention of committed all His Truth to the written gospels. They themselves testify to the contrary. If He felt that He could not preserve His Truth in the people to whom He committed it, He would probably have spent His time writng books, rather than training Apostles.

Indeed, He is flawless, and is able to preserve the Teachings He gave to the Apostles,whether they were written, or not.

There are a great many vital things not contained in the gospels. 'this is why it dilutes the faith to use the Holy Writings as a basis for developing a faith, rather than receiving the faith that was committed to the Apostles.

In fact, we do see many references in Scripture to Jesus as an only child. We understand them differently because we are reading through the lens of the Apostolic faith. When Jesus refers to her as 'Woman", it is an allusion to her position as the New Eve. In her obedience to Him, she did all the things Eve failed to do. When He asked her at the wedding in Cana, what does that (going public with miracles) have to do with you and me? He was askingher if she was indeed ready to get on the straight road to the foot of the cross. He did not tell her “go home, and look out for my siblings”. She followed Him right up until He shed His blood. There were no children of hers there. John’s mother was already present at the cross. He did not “need” another one.

I will say this if Jesus didn’t make this an issue and in fact never mentioned it then its not an issue for Him, and shouldn’t be for us.

This is simply a false statement. Jesus assumed a great deal of things, including that the Jews were well versed in the Jewish faith. There are many aspects of Judiasm that are taken for granted, that He never addressed. He Himself stated “salvation is of the Jews”, and included all of God’s revelation prior to Himself. That includes marriages of virgins who have taken a vow of chastity.

 

[tweetymom]

So I am going to ask this question of all who think they have the right answers. When Protestants pray or myself as a CATHOLIC who doen’t agree with some posters does God here and answer their prayers, I know without a shadow of doubt tha Jesus has answered all my prayers, sometimes no but I have always gotten an answer. I praise Jesus for all He has done for me!!!