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Tarsicius
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I’m sorry, but that’s like saying man would be much more bird like, if it wasn’t for the bothersome lack of wings. 
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BryPGuy89
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Enlighten me on how so.I’m sorry, but that’s like saying man would be much more bird like, if it wasn’t for the bothersome lack of wings.
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marvin
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BryPGuy89 said:
You know that the word “utopia” literally means “no place”.
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BryPGuy89
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Meanings change, and to my best knowledge in our society “utopia” means a model society, getting worked up in things like such are pointless. We will hopefully be able to talk in a way that we don’t over analysize things.
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Tarsicius
Guest
BryPGuy89 said:
In the example you give, you provide a workable entity “a true communist society” and then qualify it by removing intrinsic elements which cannot re removed(i.e. fallen human nature). Therefore, your own conclusion negates your premise.I don’t know much about the rules of logic but I believe this is a self refuting proposition.
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BryPGuy89
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All forms of government suffer from such negatives, but yet when there is some sort of check and balance, there is at least the possibility of preventing the issues. Human faults cannot be removed but if there is a way to control them then it is quite more plausible. Many communists countries are ran by dictatorial governments, with no legislation, but communism/capitalism has already proven to fail as well, so some sort of communism without totalitarism could prove to flurish, yet it has never been implemented. It is not so much that we need to eradicate something of our nature that can’t be, but a control needs to be enforced to have a running communist government. One good example is; in Israel there are small communities that basically run from communist ideas, everyone works and receives, they all work for the community, money is not needed, and everyone has a purpose and receives from the community.
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Al_Masetti
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Visit Amazon and check the book: The Black Book of Communism.
See if any of that comes anywhere near the vision that Jesus shared with us.
See if any of that comes anywhere near the vision that Jesus shared with us.
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BryPGuy89
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Al Masetti:
That book is not based on the principle of communism, but the failings of communist countries that never came close to the true idea of the government system. The atrocities were that of power hungary men with nothing to stop them. I still stand by that the real ideaology of communism is very close to the teachings of Jesus on social behavior.
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Al_Masetti
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One of the principles of communication is that the speaker has an obligation to be REALLY CLEAR about the message that they are transmitting. AND to get feedback from the listeners to be sure that the message they are receiving is the same one that the speaker is sending.
In this case, the word “communism”, like it or not, has been hijacked to mean militant atheistic totalitarianism. Meaning you do as you are told, AND reject God… OR you will be killed.
Over the years, some folks have tried to spin words by changing it to “communitarianism”, or “socialism”, or “socialism with a friendly face” and scads of other expressions. Word games just cause confusion.
Some folks use communism with a capital C Communism ] and try to make a distinction with communism with a small “c”.
Keep in mind also, that in European economics and lexicon, capitalism has a different connotation from capitalism as we know it in the United States.
It’s a little like the words “liberal” and “conservative”. Those words have been hijacked and re-defined over and over, thereby confusing everybody.
So, you need to explain what you REALLY want to ask.
The word “communist” is SO loaded with nuances and with emotions, that have crept in since 1789 Go to Amazon and check out Billington’s book, “Fire in the Minds of Men”. It’s basically the history of communism from the French Revolution to the present. Billington is/was head of the Library of Congress.
EVERY person advocating something like communism or socialism or some similar plan for social economics has ALWAYS said that Engels, Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Tito and all the others failed because they didn’t do it right and that the speaker should have a chance to try it JUST ONE MORE TIME.
So then we get Fidel Castro, or Kwame Nkrumah, or the heads of numerous other “socialist” or “peoples scientific democratic marxist socialist” states. [there are actually countries with all those names.] And they all fail economically and become basket cases that simply cannot even feed their own people. And end up as police states OR the people vote with their feet and migrate elsewhere (usually to the United States, Canada, or the UK, … or Australia or some similar country).
You can visit places like Freedom House where countries are ranked by their level of freedom or level of economic progress.
I know I’m long winded, but unhappily there are no simple easy short answers.
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BryPGuy89
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Al Masetti:
As for th history of communism, again I say it was not true communism in practice and any educated person should know this, the true idea of communism has almost completely never been implemented. The communism of the past were never true communist societies, and in the history books they are even stated to fall short of what they were seeking. You can bring up every failing “communist” country leader you want because they were not practicing the true idea of communism. In Israel there are communities that live out the true vision of communism and it would bring a tear to a true communist. They all work for the common good, everyone gets a share of the work, all are equal, and they run so well that money isn’t even necessary within these communities. The true vision of communism is posible and there are such examples as this to prove it.
To my understanding and many around me and the members of the American communist party that is not the meaning of the word Communism, communism is the equality of workers and a fair society of all persons, not military power or dictatorship, but a government for all the people who in turn do everthing they can for that government.
As for th history of communism, again I say it was not true communism in practice and any educated person should know this, the true idea of communism has almost completely never been implemented. The communism of the past were never true communist societies, and in the history books they are even stated to fall short of what they were seeking. You can bring up every failing “communist” country leader you want because they were not practicing the true idea of communism. In Israel there are communities that live out the true vision of communism and it would bring a tear to a true communist. They all work for the common good, everyone gets a share of the work, all are equal, and they run so well that money isn’t even necessary within these communities. The true vision of communism is posible and there are such examples as this to prove it.
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starrs0
Guest
You make some very interesting pointa Che I have a distain for Capitalism and feel it leads to materialism and then to athesim. The Early Church were Communist in the sense that the whoel community shared what they had with each other and took care of one another all in all its a good system however it got twisted when Karl Marx got ahold of it any system that is not founded on or that ackownledge the Principles and Morals of God Almighty (which capitalism has become) is doomed to fail.
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Al_Masetti
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How many Communist states of the past hundred years have been militant atheist?
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bogeyjlg
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Cockney_Clive
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Jesus Communist? Or Capitalist? Well, as they are both Nineteenth century ideas I don’t think we should even begin to ‘package’ Our Lord in that way, do you?
Jesus was and is the Son of God - Divine, the second member of the Trinity; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As man he was a practising and devout Jew, a prophet, healer and teacher and the mishiak or Messiah - the anointed one sent by God to His people, Israel. As a devout and learned Jew he taught that the poor, the vulnerable, the sick, should be protected and aided - Love your Neighbour. However, that was merely the second Law; the first law was THE important law - Love God with all your heart and all your strength.
Unfortunately Israel chose not to see him for who he was. As God Jesus ‘shed tears’ over Jerusalem as he remembered that they “did not recognise the moment of your Visitation” [Luke 19:44.]
Jesus had ascended to be with his Father in Heaven about five or six hundred yeares before Islam was founded so I don’t see how he could have been a Moslem!
Jesus was and is the Son of God - Divine, the second member of the Trinity; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
As man he was a practising and devout Jew, a prophet, healer and teacher and the mishiak or Messiah - the anointed one sent by God to His people, Israel. As a devout and learned Jew he taught that the poor, the vulnerable, the sick, should be protected and aided - Love your Neighbour. However, that was merely the second Law; the first law was THE important law - Love God with all your heart and all your strength.
Unfortunately Israel chose not to see him for who he was. As God Jesus ‘shed tears’ over Jerusalem as he remembered that they “did not recognise the moment of your Visitation” [Luke 19:44.]
Jesus had ascended to be with his Father in Heaven about five or six hundred yeares before Islam was founded so I don’t see how he could have been a Moslem!
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BryPGuy89
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Cockney Clive:
The titles of the form of the governments are new, but the practice is as ancieant as civilization itself. I don’t know who said Jesus was a Muslim, but that is a little odd someone thought that.
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Al_Masetti
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The American Communist Party was an organ of the Soviet Communist Party. They denied it for years. But after the Venona project was declassified, there was no longer any denying it. [They can deny it all they want, but the fact remains.]
Look up Venona, both on Google and on Amazon.
If you live within a half-day’s drive of Laurel, Maryland, visit the National Cryptologic Museum on 295 behind the Shell Station. Or visit www.nsa.gov and click on “history” and the click on the museum. [There’s TONS of good stuff there.]
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BryPGuy89
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Al Masetti:
If we want the history of the political parties why not start with the chaos of the beggining houses. There is enough controversies in our own parties to hold a conversation before bringing in any other outside forces.
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Pjs2ejs
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Some people have this belief that communism in its purist form is where everyone is equal and pools their money together and everyone works for the common good. This is communal living. Communism is a type of government system which takes away the rights of its members rather than allowing them to live communally. Equality in terms of Communism is a joke. If equality means no one has a say in what they want to do in life. Communal living is a choice and must be a choice. If not, it is slavery.
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SAINThoodSEEKER
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This may have already been mentioned…as I couldn’t possibly read all of these posts, but Christ’s unapproval of the tax collectors would show more likening to Capitalism rather than Communism. Communism (and Socialism) as a system is fueled by “big government”, which survives on our hard earned dollar (i.e. taxes). It is capitalists who preach the killing of taxes and the advancement of market and enterprise to stimulate the economy.
Anyway, this isn’t where we should find Christ. We should just “render unto Caesar” and look forward to the Kingdom.
Anyway, this isn’t where we should find Christ. We should just “render unto Caesar” and look forward to the Kingdom.
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BryPGuy89
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I have never heard that one loses their freedom in true communism, you refer to false pupet governments that were never really communist. Communism in theory is a practical and in Israeli communities a proven government style. The name communism has been given a bad name through the years, few can see threw the falsehood of the ones in the past and see again the real communist idea. We are all slaves to one thing or another that is the lot of life, we just get to choice the man in the big house.
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