Jesus was Communist

[BryPGuy89]

SAINThoodSEEKER:

This may have already been mentioned…as I couldn’t possibly read all of these posts, but Christ’s unapproval of the tax collectors would show more likening to Capitalism rather than Communism. Communism (and Socialism) as a system is fueled by “big government”, which survives on our hard earned dollar (i.e. taxes). It is capitalists who preach the killing of taxes and the advancement of market and enterprise to stimulate the economy.

Anyway, this isn’t where we should find Christ. We should just “render unto Caesar” and look forward to the Kingdom.

, that made my sides hurt sooooo bad!! Communism relying on the people’s money and not capitolism? Ha, the entire idea of communism is the people and their ability to make money to spend and make the capitolist society turning. The only aspect I could think of communist having big governments is the fact that everyone works for it. Capitolists have huge reliance on the government in just as much as a communist society would if not more. I think you don’t understand the principal of the capitolist society, taxes are essential for maintaining the government, the market and the enterprises of the people are based on taxes and the government control of the money.

 

[Verity1]

“1- Communism believes that everyone is equal. Capitalism’s human equality is largely influenced by money.”

We are equal only in the sense that Christ died for each of us. This gives us a unique value, if we take advantage of it. He loves each and every one of us. However, common-sense tells us that we are not equal in other ways. Some are more intellligent, some are more beautiful, some have superior qualities, some are harder workers etc at infinitum. Communism speaks to the power-seeker, the envious, and the greedy. Christ does not.

“2- Jesus disliked very much the tax collectors because they were money-driven and money-hungry (Matthew 5:46, 9:10, and Luke 3:11-13).”

St Matthew was a tax collector.

“3- Jesus disliked the rich people and promised that only few of them will make it to Heaven (Matthew 19:23-26).”

No He didn’t. This is a false understanding. Christ did not dislike rich people. Poor people are just as capable of sinfulness as the rich. The rich do have more areas of temptation, however. They are more vulnerable therefore to the snares of the world and the devil. For this reason they may have less chance of reaching Heaven. Of course comparatively speaking we in the West are ALL rich, so we need to beware. That doesn’t let the poor off though. They have their own demons to fight.

“4- Jesus in points 2 and 3 clearly disliked the “Capitalist” people. He clearly disliked Capitalism, because this system is all about money. Human value is precisely determined by the amount of money the person has.”

Uhuh. So He would have liked the mass executions (nobody knows how many millions were murdered), show trials, torture and suppression common in the Communist regimes, would He?

At the end of the day, my dear, Communism is all about money. The party big boys lived off the fat of the land whilst the people starved. If they didn’t starve fast enough, they were exterminated by other means. I am not defender of Capitalism, but God save us all from Communism.

 

[Al_Masetti]

BryPGuy89:

If we want the history of the political parties why not start with the chaos of the beggining houses. There is enough controversies in our own parties to hold a conversation before bringing in any other outside forces.

Sorry. I couldn’t follow this train of thought. Could you please amplify or explain?

Thanks.

 

[BryPGuy89]

“1- Communism believes that everyone is equal. Capitalism’s human equality is largely influenced by money.”

We are equal only in the sense that Christ died for each of us. This gives us a unique value, if we take advantage of it. He loves each and every one of us. However, common-sense tells us that we are not equal in other ways. Some are more intellligent, some are more beautiful, some have superior qualities, some are harder workers etc at infinitum. Communism speaks to the power-seeker, the envious, and the greedy. Christ does not.

“2- Jesus disliked very much the tax collectors because they were money-driven and money-hungry (Matthew 5:46, 9:10, and Luke 3:11-13).”

St Matthew was a tax collector.

“3- Jesus disliked the rich people and promised that only few of them will make it to Heaven (Matthew 19:23-26).”

No He didn’t. This is a false understanding. Christ did not dislike rich people. Poor people are just as capable of sinfulness as the rich. The rich do have more areas of temptation, however. They are more vulnerable therefore to the snares of the world and the devil. For this reason they may have less chance of reaching Heaven. Of course comparatively speaking we in the West are ALL rich, so we need to beware. That doesn’t let the poor off though. They have their own demons to fight.

“4- Jesus in points 2 and 3 clearly disliked the “Capitalist” people. He clearly disliked Capitalism, because this system is all about money. Human value is precisely determined by the amount of money the person has.”

Uhuh. So He would have liked the mass executions (nobody knows how many millions were murdered), show trials, torture and suppression common in the Communist regimes, would He?

At the end of the day, my dear, Communism is all about money. The party big boys lived off the fat of the land whilst the people starved. If they didn’t starve fast enough, they were exterminated by other means. I am not defender of Capitalism, but God save us all from Communism.

We may not be equal in the sence of our abilities, but are we not to receive equal rights and treatment as human beings and not on the economic value of a single person’s life. I don’t see how you got to the conclusion that communism speaks to the greedy, power seeking, or envious person. In a communist society everyone receives a regular pay, no one gets to be way richer than others, so I don’t see greed, power-seeking there is no power to have you are the same if you are a teacher or a governor, I deffinitely don’t see evvious who has something of anothers to envy that they couldn’t get themselves? Christ did speak of equality, sharing, and fairness though.

The deaths are the faults of men who want power, not communism, or follow the true communist idea, which has yet to be put into practice in a country. Many people wrongfelluy asociate the U.S.S.R. and China as being communists, but even in school they teach that they were semi communist/capitolist governments and were not really communist, but a jumble of many different governments.

Capitolsm is completely based on money, specifically the rich who receive extreme unfair treatment in court and laws. Again I state that the communist views you have are those of non communist regimes and that under true communism that would not happen, the leader would not be jolly rolling in everyone’s goods. You are mistaken in your idea of communism, but so are many these days.

 

[Verity1]

I don’t see how you got to the conclusion that communism speaks to the greedy, power seeking, or envious person. In a communist society everyone receives a regular pay, no one gets to be way richer than others, so I don’t see greed, power-seeking there is no power to have you are the same if you are a teacher or a governor,"

Where is this Communist state that you describe?

Not that I would want to be a part of it, even if it did exist. To pay everyone the same or similar salary, regardless of their talents, cannot work. Why should someone with special skills bother
to study harder if there is no financial reward? Unless he/she is a model of Christ, that is? And if they are, we wouldn’t need Communism as we’d have Christianity. The plan you speak of is unrealistic.

“The deaths are the faults of men who want power, not communism, or follow the true communist idea, which has yet to be put into practice in a country.”

And why? Because it CANNOT work. The only faint hope we have of convincing humanity to be selfless is by Christian principles. If you appeal to the purely human idea, you’re flogging a dead horse. It takes grace to be this selfless. Political ideals do not bestow grace.

“You are mistaken in your idea of communism, but so are many these days.”

I judge by what I have seen. Why do you espouse the Communist ideals when they are merely a very poor imitation of Christian ideals?

Verity 1

 

[LatinCat]

Che:

Was Jesus a Capitalist or a Communist?

We have to first of all know that one of pillars of Communism is having a GODless State. So, my response to this question will ignore this pillar, since Jesus obviously was not GODless.

To me as a Muslim, Jesus was a Muslim. He was neither a Capitalist nor a Communist, because he believed in One True Undivided GOD Almighty, and he believed in Justice and equality of treatment to all people. Plus he taught his followers how to love and forgive others, which is what Islam also teaches.

Aside from that, I believe that Jesus was closer to Communism than Capitalism for the following reasons:

1- Communism believes that everyone is equal. Capitalism’s human equality is largely influenced by money.

2- Jesus disliked very much the tax collectors because they were money-driven and money-hungry (Matthew 5:46, 9:10, and Luke 3:11-13).

3- Jesus disliked the rich people and promised that only few of them will make it to Heaven (Matthew 19:23-26).

4- Jesus in points 2 and 3 clearly disliked the “Capitalist” people. He clearly disliked Capitalism, because this system is all about money. Human value is precisely determined by the amount of money the person has.

Therefore, I believe that Jesus’ materialistic or capitalistic views were much closer to Communism.

answering-christianity.com/was_jesus.htm

Communism is inherantely unjust because it forcefully takes a person’s hard earned income and gives it to another person. Christ is not unjust; therefore, Christ is not a communist.

 

[Al_Masetti]

BryPGuy89:

We may not be equal in the sence of our abilities, but are we not to receive equal rights and treatment as human beings and not on the economic value of a single person’s life. I don’t see how you got to the conclusion that communism speaks to the greedy, power seeking, or envious person. In a communist society everyone receives a regular pay, no one gets to be way richer than others, so I don’t see greed, power-seeking there is no power to have you are the same if you are a teacher or a governor, I deffinitely don’t see evvious who has something of anothers to envy that they couldn’t get themselves? Christ did speak of equality, sharing, and fairness though.

The deaths are the faults of men who want power, not communism, or follow the true communist idea, which has yet to be put into practice in a country. Many people wrongfelluy asociate the U.S.S.R. and China as being communists, but even in school they teach that they were semi communist/capitolist governments and were not really communist, but a jumble of many different governments.

Capitolsm is completely based on money, specifically the rich who receive extreme unfair treatment in court and laws. Again I state that the communist views you have are those of non communist regimes and that under true communism that would not happen, the leader would not be jolly rolling in everyone’s goods. You are mistaken in your idea of communism, but so are many these days.

Somewhere in the Bible, it states that a workman is entitled to his wages. It also says somewhere that if you don’t work, you don’t eat.

Nowhere does it say what the workman must do with his earnings. He could buy a house. Or some furniture. Well, they didn’t have STORES in those days, but you could hire a carpenter hint ] to build you a house or make some furniture.

If workman wanted a house or furniture, he would have to SAVE up the money. And then he could INVEST IT. He could buy fishing nets or a fishing boat. He might have to form a PARTNERSHIP or the equivalent of a CORPORATION.

And to build the house or furniture or boat, he would have to hire a carpenter. second hint ]

And the prudent expenditure of monies to buy a house, furniture or a fishing boat would be considered capitalism.

So, they had capitalism back then. Jesus’ friends were capitalists. And as a carpenter he was employed by capitalists. I’m not aware that Jesus ever criticized the people who hired him to do carpentry.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Verity1:

I don’t see how you got to the conclusion that communism speaks to the greedy, power seeking, or envious person. In a communist society everyone receives a regular pay, no one gets to be way richer than others, so I don’t see greed, power-seeking there is no power to have you are the same if you are a teacher or a governor,"

Where is this Communist state that you describe?

Not that I would want to be a part of it, even if it did exist. To pay everyone the same or similar salary, regardless of their talents, cannot work. Why should someone with special skills bother
to study harder if there is no financial reward? Unless he/she is a model of Christ, that is? And if they are, we wouldn’t need Communism as we’d have Christianity. The plan you speak of is unrealistic.

“The deaths are the faults of men who want power, not communism, or follow the true communist idea, which has yet to be put into practice in a country.”

And why? Because it CANNOT work. The only faint hope we have of convincing humanity to be selfless is by Christian principles. If you appeal to the purely human idea, you’re flogging a dead horse. It takes grace to be this selfless. Political ideals do not bestow grace.

“You are mistaken in your idea of communism, but so are many these days.”

I judge by what I have seen. Why do you espouse the Communist ideals when they are merely a very poor imitation of Christian ideals?

Verity 1

There is no communist country in the world that exists. There are several fake countries that claim to be communist, but if anyone cared to look at the idea of communism would know that they are not. There are communities in countries that practice the true idea of communism, like in Israel there are communities that live solely by the people working and sharing and they don’t even need money to keep the community going, for an example.
If everyone received the same education and had the same oppurtunities then there would not be so many people with exceeding talents. I have to ask why does there need to be a financial benefit, people of faith rely on the satisfaction of doing their job and helping the kingdom of heaven, the person should take the pride of benefitting the nation and man kind, it is greedy to make decisions soley on posetional rewards. If everyone is raised with a christian or similar religion, then we should have the same principles. If the communist and religious ethics met they would blend beautifully, but we have secular and greedy people in charge who center their vision on money and goods.

There are countries that have communities that run on communist ideas and they work like I said in the first paragraph. They haven’t been put into practice of a country because sin can turn people away from the true vision.

Communism in idea and practice (if they ever were actually implements) are very much like Christian ideaology. The countries in the past claiming to be communist have not and even in our text books in school teach that they failed miserably from coming even close to communism. What you have seen is the nasty mixture of communism and capitolism, plus who knows what.

 

[BryPGuy89]

LatinCat:

Communism is inherantely unjust because it forcefully takes a person’s hard earned income and gives it to another person. Christ is not unjust; therefore, Christ is not a communist.

That is not unjust, in Canada they have crazy high taxes, but in turn they receive more from the government. I would willingly give my earnings to the government to the government as long as I know it goes to the maintanence of the country and is distributed to others in the country. It comes down to the gift of charity, most capitolist people see this as a threat to their posessions and their money, but in life these are unimportant. We just need to be able to sustain our lives and those of others and the Church and God. These things we have that we don’t want to give up is greed. If you feel sharing your blessings with others and everyone receiving equal treatment from the government is wrong, then I don’t know…

 

[BryPGuy89]

Al Masetti:

Somewhere in the Bible, it states that a workman is entitled to his wages.
Nowhere does it say what the workman must do with his earnings. He could buy a house. Or some furniture. Well, they didn’t have STORES in those days, but you could hire a carpenter hint ] to build you a house or make some furniture.

If workman wanted a house or furniture, he would have to SAVE up the money. And then he could INVEST IT. He could buy fishing nets or a fishing boat. He might have to form a PARTNERSHIP or the equivalent of a CORPORATION.

And to build the house or furniture or boat, he would have to hire a carpenter. second hint ]

And the prudent expenditure of monies to buy a house, furniture or a fishing boat would be considered capitalism.

So, they had capitalism back then. Jesus’ friends were capitalists. And as a carpenter he was employed by capitalists. I’m not aware that Jesus ever criticized the people who hired him to do carpentry.

If everyone shared their money and put work into the community and received equal treatment, then all of this saving and demand and money would be obsolete. The Bible also refers to sharing and giving. You said, “It also says somewhere that if you don’t work, you don’t eat.”, so we should stop food stamps to the poor and donations to the poor countries and natural disaster sites? They had open markets maybe not stores. Like the Amish, the community worked together there wouldn’t be any need for the carpenter to build the house. If everyone got equal treatment then everyone could get furniture, they probably wouldn’t need to buy it, the whole community could work together to make the furniture and freely give it out to others. The community could come to gether and make the nets and work together and build the fishing equipment, no money even necessary. This use of money could be very useless if the community worked together and for the benefit of all and not the individual. They had communism back then in tribes and communities and still do in many places. I definitely never heard Jesus criticize the generious giving or community life style.

 

[Ruthmary]

BryPGuy89:

If everyone shared their money and put work into the community and received equal treatment, then all of this saving and demand and money would be obsolete. The Bible also refers to sharing and giving. You said, “It also says somewhere that if you don’t work, you don’t eat.”, so we should stop food stamps to the poor and donations to the poor countries and natural disaster sites? They had open markets maybe not stores. Like the Amish, the community worked together there wouldn’t be any need for the carpenter to build the house. If everyone got equal treatment then everyone could get furniture, they probably wouldn’t need to buy it, the whole community could work together to make the furniture and freely give it out to others. The community could come to gether and make the nets and work together and build the fishing equipment, no money even necessary. This use of money could be very useless if the community worked together and for the benefit of all and not the individual. They had communism back then in tribes and communities and still do in many places. I definitely never heard Jesus criticize the generious giving or community life style.

You have a lot of IFs here: IF people were perfect, we wouldn’t need any structure. Unfortunately, we’re imperfect. Look at what works: Communist countries such as China are giving in to capitalism because capitalism works and communism doesn’t.

May I suggest you do a little study of the history of capitalism? I had the same doubts you’re having before I did my own study into the subject. Just key “Catholic Church; capitalism” into Google and you’ll get more than you’ll be able to read.

The book “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization” by West has a great treatment of the subject.

There’s a great article by Michael Novak at the following website:
michaelnovak.net/Module/Article/ArticleView.aspx?id=149

Here’s a little from Novak’s article:
Capitalism, it’s usually assumed, flowered around the same time as the Enlightenment – the 18th century – and, like the Enlightenment, entailed a diminution of organized religion. In fact, the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages was the main locus for the first flowerings of capitalism. Max Weber (1864-1920) located the origin of capitalism in modern Protestant cities, but today’s historians find capitalism much earlier than that in rural areas, where monasteries, especially those of the Cistercians, began to rationalize economic life.

The economic historian David Landes, who describes himself as an unbeliever, points out that the main factors in this great economic achievement of Western civilization are mainly religious:

– the joy in discovery that arises from each individual being an imago Dei (image of God) called to be a creator;

– the religious value attached to hard and good manual work;

– the theological separation of the Creator from the creature, such that nature is subordinated to man, not surrounded with taboos;

– the Jewish and Christian sense of linear, not cyclical time, and therefore of progress; and

– respect for the market.

Blessings,
Ruth

 

[BryPGuy89]

Ruthmary:

You have a lot of IFs here: IF people were perfect, we wouldn’t need any structure. Unfortunately, we’re imperfect. Look at what works: Communist countries such as China are giving in to capitalism because capitalism works and communism doesn’t.

May I suggest you do a little study of the history of capitalism? I had the same doubts you’re having before I did my own study into the subject. Just key “Catholic Church; capitalism” into Google and you’ll get more than you’ll be able to read.

The book “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization” by West has a great treatment of the subject.

There’s a great article by Michael Novak at the following website:
michaelnovak.net/Module/Article/ArticleView.aspx?id=149

Here’s a little from Novak’s article:
Capitalism, it’s usually assumed, flowered around the same time as the Enlightenment – the 18th century – and, like the Enlightenment, entailed a diminution of organized religion. In fact, the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages was the main locus for the first flowerings of capitalism. Max Weber (1864-1920) located the origin of capitalism in modern Protestant cities, but today’s historians find capitalism much earlier than that in rural areas, where monasteries, especially those of the Cistercians, began to rationalize economic life.

The economic historian David Landes, who describes himself as an unbeliever, points out that the main factors in this great economic achievement of Western civilization are mainly religious:

– the joy in discovery that arises from each individual being an imago Dei (image of God) called to be a creator;

– the religious value attached to hard and good manual work;

– the theological separation of the Creator from the creature, such that nature is subordinated to man, not surrounded with taboos;

– the Jewish and Christian sense of linear, not cyclical time, and therefore of progress; and

– respect for the market.

Blessings,
Ruth

I lack speeking in absolute because I am not God and there for I know that there will be variables that will not coencide with what I say. As I said a hudred timed by now, or so it seems, those countries were not ever communist countries, even in school text books they teach that.

I don’t have any doubts, I just think that the idea of community living for the better of all is a better society then the wealthiest gets whatever they want and others don’t. I have seen just as many articles saying that the Catholic Church condemns the practice of capitalism.

The communist idea if looked at through the original idea is a very sound idea, it works in communities around the world and if it was successfully implemented into a nation government then it could prosper. A good religious teaching and raising of the subjects would be important to ensure generosity and the will to help the multitudes, not individual. Capitalism is based on money, greed, and the individual.

 

[LatinCat]

BryPGuy89:

That is not unjust, in Canada they have crazy high taxes, but in turn they receive more from the government. I would willingly give my earnings to the government to the government as long as I know it goes to the maintanence of the country and is distributed to others in the country. It comes down to the gift of charity, most capitolist people see this as a threat to their posessions and their money, but in life these are unimportant. We just need to be able to sustain our lives and those of others and the Church and God. These things we have that we don’t want to give up is greed. If you feel sharing your blessings with others and everyone receiving equal treatment from the government is wrong, then I don’t know…

It is unjust because the government is confiscating a person’s income against their will. In fact this is a prime example of injustice. It doesn’t matter what the government gives back. Furthermore, it is not done in proportion. A person who has worked hard to earn a great career and thus makes a higher income does not recieve more services from the government for the higher taxes that such a person pays. Everyone gets the same services, no matter how hard they work. A person who works hard to elevate their postion in society should see the fruits of their labor. The second problem with such socialism is that it is the fruit of a philosophy that man can create some kind of utopian society on his own. This is entirely anti-Christian. Christians know that for a society to prosper, it will only do so if it is based on the eternal and divine principles such as justice. Only then can a society provide for its people. Will such a society be perfect? No. But Christians have no delusions of Utopia. But we hold to a truth taught in the bible: those who refuse to work will not eat. That simple.

 

[shockerfan]

BryPGuy89:

I lack speeking in absolute because I am not God and there for I know that there will be variables that will not coencide with what I say. As I said a hudred timed by now, or so it seems, those countries were not ever communist countries, even in school text books they teach that.

I don’t have any doubts, I just think that the idea of community living for the better of all is a better society then the wealthiest gets whatever they want and others don’t. I have seen just as many articles saying that the Catholic Church condemns the practice of capitalism.

The communist idea if looked at through the original idea is a very sound idea, it works in communities around the world and if it was successfully implemented into a nation government then it could prosper. A good religious teaching and raising of the subjects would be important to ensure generosity and the will to help the multitudes, not individual. Capitalism is based on money, greed, and the individual.

Dear BryPGuy,

I have read through your posts, and you seem to have a very idealized way of thinking. Unfortunately, your perfect utopian society you seem to want is pure fantasy. It is impossible to implement. Why? Well first of all there are lots of lazy people in every society who want others to do the work, while they try to avoid it. How long do you think it will be for a hard working person to realize “why should I work so hard to earn the same amount as a person who is doing nothing?”

You seem to think that people who work honestly within the capitalist system are greedy and don’t think of others. While there might be some, the VAST majority are hard working people who “reap what they sow”.

You don’t seem to realize that the VAST majority of people here in the US are where they are at due to the choices they have made in their lifetime.

The second reason why your utopian society can never exist is due the fact you are dealing with humans. Try reading “Animal Farm” by George Orwell for an idea of what I am talking about.

Lastly, read Matthew 25:14-30. It is a parable where Jesus implies that there are greater rewards for those who work harder (a very capitalist parable in my opinion). Money is not evil my friend, only the love of money.

 

[Booklover]

BryPGuy89:

I lack speeking in absolute because I am not God and there for I know that there will be variables that will not coencide with what I say. As I said a hudred timed by now, or so it seems, those countries were not ever communist countries, even in school text books they teach that.

You mean in the “politically correct” history books they have now that don’t teach the truth?

I don’t have any doubts, I just think that the idea of community living for the better of all is a better society then the wealthiest gets whatever they want and others don’t. I have seen just as many articles saying that the Catholic Church condemns the practice of capitalism.

You keep harping on the same theme don’t you? The Catholic church condemns communism.

The communist idea if looked at through the original idea is a very sound idea, it works in communities around the world and if it was successfully implemented into a nation government then it could prosper. A good religious teaching and raising of the subjects would be important to ensure generosity and the will to help the multitudes, not individual. Capitalism is based on money, greed, and the individual.

Just because something may look good on paper does not mean it will work when put in practice. The “equality” you talk about cannot exist because God created human beings, with different talents and abilities. He did not create robots! Some people are hard working and others are not. People have the right to free enterprise and to own private property and no one has the right to take it away!

You don’t know the first thing about communism! Have you ever lived in a communist country? Well, I have! I come from Cuba and was lucky enough to get out after Castro came in. Life in Cuba was very good until Castro. Havana, where I was born, was a beautiful city and now it’s just a mess.

Do you know what it’s like to live in fear of being turned in to the government for speaking against it? We had a military police called the G2 which was very similar to the Gestapo. I know of people who talked against the government to people they thought were friends, and they got picked up and put in jail! Many people disappeared and were never seen again. We also heard many horror stories of tortures inflicted on people…

Dedicated communists like to take kids away from their parents to indoctrinate them to the idea that the state is the only thing that matters. If mother, father, sister, brother, friend say anything derogatory about the government, their duty is to turn them in!

There is no such thing as free elections, free enterprise, or search warrants. They can come and search any time they like. All that stuff you keep saying about equality means that the government owns everything. The government steals from the rich and keeps everything itself. Yeah, equality means everyone’s basically poor!

 

[Verity1]

BryPGuy89:

There is no communist country in the world that exists.

Is there a SINGLE Communist person that you can point me to who displays all of the behaviours you have mentioned? Either now or in the past?

I can point you to many, many Christians.

“If the communist and religious ethics met they would blend beautifully”

They would blend only where the communist “ideals” are a carbon-copy of Christian ideals. It’s a cheap imitation that CANNOT work because such behaviour requires divine grace.

Verity 1

 

[BryPGuy89]

LatinCat:

It is unjust because the government is confiscating a person’s income against their will. In fact this is a prime example of injustice. It doesn’t matter what the government gives back. Furthermore, it is not done in proportion. A person who has worked hard to earn a great career and thus makes a higher income does not recieve more services from the government for the higher taxes that such a person pays. Everyone gets the same services, no matter how hard they work. A person who works hard to elevate their postion in society should see the fruits of their labor. The second problem with such socialism is that it is the fruit of a philosophy that man can create some kind of utopian society on his own. This is entirely anti-Christian. Christians know that for a society to prosper, it will only do so if it is based on the eternal and divine principles such as justice. Only then can a society provide for its people. Will such a society be perfect? No. But Christians have no delusions of Utopia. But we hold to a truth taught in the bible: those who refuse to work will not eat. That simple.

My question to you all is if you make enough and are proveded enough by the government, what good does it do you to receives more money, what is this obsession with making more money for what you do? If everyone received the same education, you would have not worked much harder, “Bob” down the street could just as easily done the same thing you do, so you have nothing to receive more for. This is why I am against capitolism, it is all about personal posession and worldy rewards for your efforts, I like the communist idea of working for the benefit of all the people in the land.I have previously stated on other posts that this society would have to be built on Christian faith and principles, I completely agree. So those German soldiers who refused to kill jews shouldn’t be fed or paid? Those people that refuse to work for a secular company don’t deserve to eat? If I refuse to work because I feel that the location is a dangerous one and would not like to be killed on my way to work, I don’t get to eat? If someone dosn’t want to work for a business that supports abortion and there is no other open oppurtunities should they not receive food? Some people don’t have the oppurtunity to work and others morally can’t work at places and thus refuse, this “verse” you refer to, please give me the location so I can read into it myself. Nothing Jesus said is very simple.

 

[BryPGuy89]

shockerfan:

Dear BryPGuy,

I have read through your posts, and you seem to have a very idealized way of thinking. Unfortunately, your perfect utopian society you seem to want is pure fantasy. It is impossible to implement. Why? Well first of all there are lots of lazy people in every society who want others to do the work, while they try to avoid it. How long do you think it will be for a hard working person to realize “why should I work so hard to earn the same amount as a person who is doing nothing?”

You seem to think that people who work honestly within the capitalist system are greedy and don’t think of others. While there might be some, the VAST majority are hard working people who “reap what they sow”.

You don’t seem to realize that the VAST majority of people here in the US are where they are at due to the choices they have made in their lifetime.

The second reason why your utopian society can never exist is due the fact you are dealing with humans. Try reading “Animal Farm” by George Orwell for an idea of what I am talking about.

Lastly, read Matthew 25:14-30. It is a parable where Jesus implies that there are greater rewards for those who work harder (a very capitalist parable in my opinion). Money is not evil my friend, only the love of money.

I don’t see what is this fasination with rewards and money people always talk about. Are you not stisfied to know that if you do your job you will not have to worry about anything, in communism yes you receive equal pay regardless of work, but the self satisfaction of knowing you are doing your best and that you have no cares, is that not enough. I don’t know if I’m odd, but this reward system and wanting more money for the good you do doesn’t appeal to me. The fact of knowing I did my best for the better of the society is enough. I don’t need to receive more money for more good I do, I take pride in what I know to be my good work and that is enough. I don’t see why it is alway about the money, all defenses are not enough pay for my work, why should I make the same as someone doing a job half has important then mine, I support communim because it fits my understanding of a Christian society, applying Christ’s teaching to everyday life. I’m not looking for a utopia, but a society without money and greed to distract the faithful.

 

[Booklover]

BryPGuy89:

I don’t see what is this fasination with rewards and money people always talk about. Are you not stisfied to know that if you do your job you will not have to worry about anything, in communism yes you receive equal pay regardless of work, but the self satisfaction of knowing you are doing your best and that you have no cares, is that not enough. I don’t know if I’m odd, but this reward system and wanting more money for the good you do doesn’t appeal to me. The fact of knowing I did my best for the better of the society is enough. I don’t need to receive more money for more good I do, I take pride in what I know to be my good work and that is enough. I don’t see why it is alway about the money, all defenses are not enough pay for my work, why should I make the same as someone doing a job half has important then mine, I support communim because it fits my understanding of a Christian society, applying Christ’s teaching to everyday life. I’m not looking for a utopia, but a society without money and greed to distract the faithful.

Why did our Lady at Fatima tell us to amend our lives and tell us to pray for the conversion of Russia? She told us that if we did not amend our lives and repent and pray for Russia, that IT WOULD SPREAD ITS ERRORS ALL OVER THE WORLD? Why would she do that if communism is the ideal way of life as you seem to think?

And don’t forget that Jesus said: Give to caesar what is caesar’s and to God what is God’? He did not say anything about life without money.

Vickie

 

[BryPGuy89]

Booklover:

You mean in the “politically correct” history books they have now that don’t teach the truth?

You keep harping on the same theme don’t you? The Catholic church condemns communism.

Just because something may look good on paper does not mean it will work when put in practice. The “equality” you talk about cannot exist because God created human beings, with different talents and abilities. He did not create robots! Some people are hard working and others are not. People have the right to free enterprise and to own private property and no one has the right to take it away!

You don’t know the first thing about communism! Have you ever lived in a communist country? Well, I have! I come from Cuba and was lucky enough to get out after Castro came in. Life in Cuba was very good until Castro. Havana, where I was born, was a beautiful city and now it’s just a mess.

Do you know what it’s like to live in fear of being turned in to the government for speaking against it? We had a military police called the G2 which was very similar to the Gestapo. I know of people who talked against the government to people they thought were friends, and they got picked up and put in jail! Many people disappeared and were never seen again. We also heard many horror stories of tortures inflicted on people…

Dedicated communists like to take kids away from their parents to indoctrinate them to the idea that the state is the only thing that matters. If mother, father, sister, brother, friend say anything derogatory about the government, their duty is to turn them in!

There is no such thing as free elections, free enterprise, or search warrants. They can come and search any time they like. All that stuff you keep saying about equality means that the government owns everything. The government steals from the rich and keeps everything itself. Yeah, equality means everyone’s basically poor!

None of these things represent the real communist idea. These are totalitarian governments that you use for reference. The idea of communism doesn’t have a single ruling regime and total control of life, they are communal and offer rights. I’m sorry to say that people have this misunderstanding of the real communism and now shun from the idea.