Jesus was in the Beginning because he is the Eternal Word -- Nuff said. Some Catholics in here have declare he wasn't. What a heretical belief.

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**This post is specifically for Catholics who now preach doctrine contrary to the Catholic Church.

There have been some voices in this forum that Jesus was not in the beginning. I beg differ. I have been listening to many of Fr. John Corapi’s teaching on Jesus Christ. He said in so many of his lecture that Jesus is that One Word. The Eternal Word.

Let me begin by quoting the First Chapter of the Gospel of John.

In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. John Chapter 1 verse 1-2

Further down, the passage reads in verse 14, And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

We know this Word is Jesus Christ because in the fullness of time. The Word of God took on our nature and became like us. Yes, in the beginning, he wasn’t revealed but hidden. He was pure spirit in full communion with the Triune God, Father, and the Holy Spirit.

In this exposition, I shall quote St. Ireneaus who refute anyone that Jesus was not in the beginning. I tell you my brothers, Jesus was in the beginning.

((continue))**
 
**This is from the Office of Reading for Wednesday January 16, 2008.

The Second Reading:

From the Treatise Against Heresies by Saint Ireneaus, bishop.

No one can know the Father apart from God’s Word, that is, unless the Son reveals him, and no one can know the Son unless the Father so wills. Now the Son fulfills the Father’s good pleasure: the Father sends, the Son is sent, and he comes. The Father is beyond our sight and comprehension; but he is known by his Word, who tells us of him who surpasses all telling. And the Lord has revealed both truths. Therefore, the Son reveals the knowledge of the Father by his revelation of himself. Knowledge of the Father consists in the self-revelation of the Son, for all is revealed through the Word.

The Father’s purpose is revealing the Son was to make himself known to us all and so to welcome into eternal rest those who believe in him, establishing them in justice, preserving them from death. To believe in him means to do his will.

Through creation itself the Word reveales God the Creator. Through the world he reveals the Lord who made the world. Through all that is fashioned he reveals the craftsman who fashioned it all. Through the Son the Word reveals the Father who begot him as Son. All speak of these things in the same language, but they do know believe them in the same way. Through the law and the prophets the Word revealed himself and his Father in the same way, and though all the people equally heard the message not all equally believed it. Through the Word, made visible and palpable, the Father was revealed, though not all equally believed in him. But all saw the Father in the Son, for the Father of the Son cannot be seen, but the Son of the Father can be seen.

The Son performs everything as a ministry to the Father, from the beginning to end, and without Son no one can know God. The way to know the Father is the Son. Knowledge of the Son is in the Father, and is revealed through the Son. For this reason, the Lord said, “No one knows the Son except the Father; and no one who knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son has revealed him.” The word “revealed” refers not only to the future ---- as though the Word began to reveal the Father only when he was born of Mary; it refers equally to all time. From the beginning the Son is present to creation, reveals the Father to all, to those Father chooses, when the Father chooses, as the Father chooses. So, there is in all and through all one God the Father, one Word and Son, and one Spirit, and one salvation for all who believe in him.**

I like to conclude that Jesus was in the beginning. He is after all the Alpha and the Omega. He did not have a human nature in the beginning. In the beginning, his divine nature was always there. How else would he know the Father. No one knows the Father but the Son. Jesus also said "Before Abraham was. I AM."

I find it so difficult to grasp that some Catholics in here proclaim that Jesus wasn’t in the beginning. He was. His Divine Nature was in the beginning. In the fullness of time, he then took a form of a slave, born of a woman, born under the law.
 
Jesus was not in the beginning, in the sense that the Word hasnt always been the human incarnation of God.
 
AgnosTheist said:
Jesus was not in the beginning, in the sense that the Word hasnt always been the human incarnation of God.
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The Gospel of John in the first Chapter disagrees with. So does the Book of Revelation. He was but he didn’t took a human nature. He was pure spirit. His divine nature was always there in the beginning.

Jesus also said that “He is the living bread that came down from heaven.” In fact, when Jesus was born he was born in Bethlehem which is Hebrew for “House of Bread.” Jesus is not from this world. He came from the Father. He came into the word, to do the Father’s will to save all men from their sins.

If you claim that Jesus wasn’t in the beginning, then he is not eternal. My friend, Jesus is eternal. He always been. He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
The Gospel of John in the first Chapter disagrees with.
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The first chapter says “The Word became flesh”. That was a sequence. Human incarnation came later. Its the concept of “God-Man” that truly made Jesus what he is. Yeah the divine nature had been there at the beginning, but the transformation into jesus was another matter.

Anyway lets wait for those ‘Catholics’ that you were referring to. Who are they? 😃
 
AgnosTheist said:
The first chapter says “The Word became flesh”. That was a sequence. Human incarnation came later. Its the concept of “God-Man” that truly made Jesus what he is. Yeah the divine nature had been there at the beginning, but the transformation into jesus was another matter.

Anyway lets wait for those ‘Catholics’ that you were referring to. 😃
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Yes or no answer is all I need…are you saying Son was there, but Jesus was not?
 
Look, I will always conform my beliefs to what the Church teaches. This is my best understanding of what she teaches on this.

The human aspect of the second person of the trinity did not exist before the beginning of time. It had a specific moment of beginning, the Annunciation. At that time, the Son of God, who is eternal and always existed, became incarnate, taking on human nature while remaining the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity.

The man Jesus Christ had a definite beginning. The God Jesus Christ always existed. However these two aspects of Jesus are not separate, but joined together in what is called the Hypostatic Union. This is a mystery that we cannot fully comprehend.
 
ralphinal said:
Yes or no answer is all I need…are you saying Son was there, but Jesus was not?
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that is what i am understanding him as saying (or at least he is saying that is what Christianity believes).
 
Benedict16 said:
How would he know? He is not Catholic?
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As much as it pains him at times, I think AT was Catholic once.

Bengal is right on two fronts. Many people know what the Churhc teaches even if it is not their Church. Second, on this point, most of Christianity agrees with our position
 
chrisb is one of the Catholic Answers Forum Members claim Jesus wasn’t in the beginning.
 
rpp said:
The human aspect of the second person of the trinity did not exist before the beginning of time. It had a specific moment of beginning, the Annunciation. At that time, the Son of God, who is eternal and always existed, became incarnate, taking on human nature while remaining the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity.
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As I ask in the other thread, how can there be a Son who is God and eternal and always existed, but was begotten of God therefore did not always exist as God?
rpp said:
The man Jesus Christ had a definite beginning. The God Jesus Christ always existed. However these two aspects of Jesus are not separate, but joined together in what is called the Hypostatic Union. This is a mystery that we cannot fully comprehend.
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There is no mystery at all in accepting that Jesus was a created man who God went to dwell in, a prophet who spoke God’s Word and became God’s Word to man. Like Moses was.

Thus making Jesus a spiritual son and child of God, but not a deity or demigod sired by God.

The tradition makes it a mystery and voids the Word of God for those who reject the mystery as nonsense, and reject Jesus along with it.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
As I ask in the other thread, how can there be a Son who is God and eternal and always existed, but was begotten of God therefore did not always exist as God?

There is no mystery at all in accepting that Jesus was a created man who God went to dwell in, a prophet who spoke God’s Word and became God’s Word to man. Like Moses was.

Thus making Jesus a spiritual son and child of God, but not a deity or demigod sired by God.

The tradition makes it a mystery and voids the Word of God for those who reject the mystery as nonsense, and reject Jesus along with it.
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the only problem with this is what the NT (especially the gospels) have Jesus saying about Himself. if we are to believe the writers of the 4 accepted and canonized gospels (if you don’t believe the writers and think the books are not inspired, then it is very easy to say Jesus wasn’t God) as inspired and an accurate account of what happened during Jesus’ life as handed down orally and then into written accounts from about 50 through 100 years after Jesus (which is what i hold to), then we have Jesus Himself saying things which seem to show He thought He was God. we also have his followers writing and saying things which seem to show they think He is God. therefore, you cannot be a Christian and say that Jesus is just another man like moses.
 
One of you is saying Jesus was there at the beginning, the other is saying the “second person” was there at the beginning. The Son, the second person, is who we are talking about and you both agree He was there in the beginning. Seems like a silly argument.
 
These are terrible heretical beliefs. This would indicate a division in God. If it was true that Jesus Christ did not always exist than it would be true that the Holy Trinity did not always exist and this would contradict God. If anyone actually believes these ideas they should look towards the Holy Scripture that proves that Jesus Christ always existed.

“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.” (John 1:3)

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and out hands have touched–this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.” (1 John 1:1)

“Through him all things were made” (The Nicene Creed)

“Eternally begotten of the Father” (The Nicene Creed)

Finally lets look at this quote from the Holy Scripture:

“See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy” (Colossians 2:8)
 
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