"Jesus was non denominational"

[Adamski]

Adamski–

Can you ask this person exactly what they meant in saying Jesus was non denominational? We can all take turns speculating what might have been in this person’s mind, but getting some clarification from the source would be more helpful than all the speculation in the world. I’m curious, too…it seems like a strange thing to say.

They probably meant I’m sure he wasn’t catholic

 

[KLJM12]

Keep on trolling with that anti-Semitic nonsense buddy. How is it idol worship when we worship the same God?

Not the same God. Ours is a triune God. You cannot blaspheme one member and then claim to worship the other. Read any Jewish commentary on our Lord. They blaspheme Christ. They assuredly do not worship our God. And it is not anti semitic to hold that view. I speak Yiddish and very much respect Jewish culture. However, rabbinical judaism of today is not the same religion that the old testament speaks of. That is a fact.

 

[bilop]

It makes you a completed Jew, as Mother Miriam of the Lamb of God likes to say…

Jesus was culturally, and practically, speaking a Jew. If you have doubts, look at the sign above His head on any crucifix: “Jesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum” (Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews) This seems obvious to me. Not surprised that “non-denominational” Christians would say Jesus was “non-denominational.” They tend to see history from their own colored lenses. At best, their position is an over-simplification of the truth.

Peace,
Robert

I’m not speaking culturally; Jesus observed the customs of his people, but God doesn’t have a specific culture.

I’m talking religion. An ethnic Jew who joins the Church is still ethnically Jewish, but religiously becomes Catholic. He is just as Catholic as you and me. He is bound by exactly the same moral and ecclesiastical laws as any other Catholic.

Jesus founded the Catholic Church; He is the eternal priest. I don’t see how he can not be Catholic, in whatever sense God can have any religion.

Obviously, God does not need religion. Jesus didn’t need to follow any Jewish customs or laws, and He didn’t sin when he broke them, e.g. healing on Sabbath, removing the dietary laws.

God Bless

 

[bilop]

Not the same God. Ours is a triune God. You cannot blaspheme one member and then claim to worship the other. Read any Jewish commentary on our Lord. They blaspheme Christ. They assuredly do not worship our God. And it is not anti semitic to hold that view. I speak Yiddish and very much respect Jewish culture. However, rabbinical judaism of today is not the same religion that the old testament speaks of. That is a fact.

I think this has a good deal of truth to it.

OT Judaism worshipped the same God as Christians do currently. But, when some Jews rejected Christ as the Messiah, they effectively created a new religion.

In a theological sense, in relation to God, Judaism ended at Calvary. It wasn’t meant to continue. All the Jews should have accepted Christ.

God Bless

 

[LEMAITRE]

Not the same God. Ours is a triune God. You cannot blaspheme one member and then claim to worship the other. Read any Jewish commentary on our Lord. They blaspheme Christ. They assuredly do not worship our God. And it is not anti semitic to hold that view. I speak Yiddish and very much respect Jewish culture. However, rabbinical judaism of today is not the same religion that the old testament speaks of. That is a fact.

 

[CopticChristian]

An evangelical I know was concerned about having thier 4 year old attened another
Neighbors house that is Jewish to attened a Hanakah party

And I said well Jesus was Jewish

They responded no Jesus was non denominational

Then I went into how Hanakah is in the book of Macabees and an historical celebration that Christians can embrace

They continued to look at me like I was from a different planet

Adam,

You are from a different planet. Everyone has a map of the world and the Evangelical world is such that everyone outside of their paradigm is from a different planet. Ask your friend…What do you mean Jesus was nondenominational?

In order to engage anyone in dialogue you must understand their world/paradigm and to do that you must continually ask questions about what they mean. As you do you will draw out from them the picture of the world and the planet they are from.

 

[TimothyH]

That’s inaccurate.

bible.cc/john/19-21.htm

Jesus was from the house and lineage David but was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, not man. The Jewish leadership was ready to stone Him to death because he referred to Himself as Yahweh and was accused of making Himself equal to God.

Peace,
Ed

Jesus is fully God and fully man.

Jesus is as much a son of his Father in Heaven as he is a son of his Mother on earth.

He recieved his humanity from his human mother Mary, a Jew.

-Tim-

 

[Christian_Unity]

An evangelical I know was concerned about having thier 4 year old attened another
Neighbors house that is Jewish to attened a Hanakah party

And I said well Jesus was Jewish

They responded no Jesus was non denominational

Then I went into how Hanakah is in the book of Macabees and an historical celebration that Christians can embrace

They continued to look at me like I was from a different planet

Maybe you should encouage your friend to read the Old Testament and the book of Hebrews?

 

[Razanir]

Not the same God. Ours is a triune God. You cannot blaspheme one member and then claim to worship the other.

If one accepts that:

1. Jesus is God and therefore sinless, and
2. The Last Supper was celebrating Passover, meaning Jesus was Jewish,
   I see no reason the Jewish God could not be the Christian God. If you accept Jesus as Jewish, but say they worship a different God than Jesus is, then Jesus would have broken his own First Commandment.

As has been pointed out, Judaism, Islam and Christianity all worship the same God. It’s just the first two worship him in imperfect ways

 

[KLJM12]

That is not dogma. We are not bound to believe that muslims and Jews worship the true God. Jewish culture and religion are not synonymous. I very much respect orthodox Jewish culture. However, to claim that a religion that calls our God a false prophet and a liar is a false religion and blasphemy. Name one logical error in my statement. I implore you to try. It cannot be done. Don’t confuse the judaism of the old testament with rabbinical judaism of today. The two are incompatible.

we worship one God. This one God is consisting in three parts so that the 3 are inseparable. If someone claims that one is not God then they effectively claim none are. Take false ecumenism to an orthodox synagogue in crown heights and see how fervently the rabbi disagrees with you about how we worship the same God. Easier yet, look at Chabad lubavitch website and see how welcoming they are of your heretical ecumenism.

 

[KLJM12]

If one accepts that:

1. Jesus is God and therefore sinless, and
2. The Last Supper was celebrating Passover, meaning Jesus was Jewish,
   I see no reason the Jewish God could not be the Christian God. If you accept Jesus as Jewish, but say they worship a different God than Jesus is, then Jesus would have broken his own First Commandment.

As has been pointed out, Judaism, Islam and Christianity all worship the same God. It’s just the first two worship him in imperfect ways

This would indeed be true of pre-rabbinical Judaism. You are confusing The Judaism that existed while Jesus was alive and that of today. Jesus was not worshipping the same god that rabbinical Jews worship today. I assure you. Jesus was able to go to the Temple i Jerusalem for High Holy Days. Jews can no longer do this because there are no more sacrifices. In fact, rabbinical Jews are incapable of following the 613 laws laid out in the Torah because there is no longer a temple. Please educate yourself on the matter of rabbinical Judaism and Old Testament Judaism. The two are opposed to one another.

 

[Razanir]

That is not dogma. We are not bound to believe that muslims and Jews worship the true God. Jewish culture and religion are not synonymous. I very much respect orthodox Jewish culture. However, to claim that a religion that calls our God a false prophet and a liar is a false religion and blasphemy. Name one logical error in my statement. I implore you to try. It cannot be done. Don’t confuse the judaism of the old testament with rabbinical judaism of today. The two are incompatible.

we worship one God. This one God is consisting in three parts so that the 3 are inseparable. If someone claims that one is not God then they effectively claim none are. Take false ecumenism to an orthodox synagogue in crown heights and see how fervently the rabbi disagrees with you about how we worship the same God. Easier yet, look at Chabad lubavitch website and see how welcoming they are of your heretical ecumenism.

Name one logical error? That it’s an incomplete sentence. However, I’ll interpret it the easiest way to have it make sense, that is, ignoring “to claim that.” thinking Okay, I found a real one. You keep saying the Judaism of the OT is not the same as the Rabbinical Judaism of today without offering any proof. Before I consider your argument, I’d like to understand better the grounds for your claim.

Two side notes:

1. What do you think of my counterargument? That if we didn’t worship the same God as Judaism that Jesus would have had a false god before Himself. Which, of course, is absurd. Argumentum ad absurdum, we worship the same God
2. Religion is a part of culture. By not respecting their religion you are inherently not respecting their culture

 

[KLJM12]

Name one logical error? That it’s an incomplete sentence. However, I’ll interpret it the easiest way to have it make sense, that is, ignoring “to claim that.” thinking Okay, I found a real one. You keep saying the Judaism of the OT is not the same as the Rabbinical Judaism of today without offering any proof. Before I consider your argument, I’d like to understand better the grounds for your claim.

Two side notes:

1. What do you think of my counterargument? That if we didn’t worship the same God as Judaism that Jesus would have had a false god before Himself. Which, of course, is absurd. Argumentum ad absurdum, we worship the same God
2. Religion is a part of culture. By not respecting their religion you are inherently not respecting their culture

What? My previous sentence was not imcomplete. I stated, “Name one logical error in my statement”. This is a command and so the verb here is “Name”, with “you” being understood and not explicitly stated in writing. “You-understood” in this sentence is the noun. I am only desiring that someone name a total of 1 (a defined and specific quantity) error. Error is the direct object of the sentence. Logical is a adjective that is providing a description of the one (1) error I am requesting someone mention. “in my statement” is a preposition phrase.

So to recapitulate: the sentence that you claimed was incomplete and then proceeded to insult my intelligence is actually a full and complete sentence that contains a subject (although one that is understood and not necessary to write), a verb, a direct object, and a prepositional phrase.

Et, loquerisne latine amicus meus? Cur dicis verbos latine? Intelligo anglice, nisi gratias multas.

However, to return back to the subject at hand now that we have all had a quick lesson in English grammar:

1. I agree that we worship the One True God of Old Testament Judaism. However, Our Lord tells us that the only way to the Father is through him. Ergo, the Father is not able to be reached unless one acknowledges Jesus as God and Messiah. Do Rabbinical Jews accept Jesus? If the answer is no ( and I most surely believe that it is), then they are incapable of truly worshipping the one true God.
2. This is an interesting point that you make. So if you do not respect one aspect of a theme, then you are, by default, not respecting the theme as a whole? So, just to clarify, religion is a part of culture. If I disrespect religion, then I disrespect culture (which is an inseparable aspect of culture as a whole in your opinion). This logic applied to the topic of worshipping God. If someone rejects one “person” of God, then they are rejecting the entirety of God. Did I correctly apply your logic to another scenario?
3. However, I do want to apologize if I have said anything offensive. I would like to ask you a question. Is Nostra Aetate binding on all Catholics? If so, I will concede that Jews, Moslems, and Christians worship the same God. If not, then I will continue to hold my point-of-view and no longer try to explain myself.

 

[Razanir]

What? My previous sentence was not imcomplete. I stated, “Name one logical error in my statement”. This is a command and so the verb here is “Name”, with “you” being understood and not explicitly stated in writing. “You-understood” in this sentence is the noun. I am only desiring that someone name a total of 1 (a defined and specific quantity) error. Error is the direct object of the sentence. Logical is a adjective that is providing a description of the one (1) error I am requesting someone mention. “in my statement” is a preposition phrase.

I’ll get back to you on the main points, but the sentence I was referring to was “However, to claim that a religion that calls our God a false prophet and a liar is a false religion and blasphemy.” From “that” on, it’s all the object of “to claim”

 

[KLJM12]

I’ll get back to you on the main points, but the sentence I was referring to was “However, to claim that a religion that calls our God a false prophet and a liar is a false religion and blasphemy.” From “that” on, it’s all the object of “to claim”

Ah yes that would be a poorly written sentence. I want to honestly apologize for my smart-alec remark with the grammatical rant though. That was childish and not Christ-like in the least.

While you try and find out whether or not Nostra Aetate is dogmatic (which I have, as of yet, been incapable of finding), I would refer you to the Talmud. Specifically Gittin 57a, Sanhedrin 106a, and the footnote to Shabbat 104b of the Babylonian Talmud. I do not dare repeat the statements those verses contain.

Once again, I apologize for my childish behavior and any disrespect my words may have caused for modern Jews. I only meant to explain my position.

God Bless

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I’m not speaking culturally; Jesus observed the customs of his people, but God doesn’t have a specific culture.

I’m talking religion. An ethnic Jew who joins the Church is still ethnically Jewish, but religiously becomes Catholic. He is just as Catholic as you and me. He is bound by exactly the same moral and ecclesiastical laws as any other Catholic.

Jesus founded the Catholic Church; He is the eternal priest. I don’t see how he can not be Catholic, in whatever sense God can have any religion.

Obviously, God does not need religion. Jesus didn’t need to follow any Jewish customs or laws, and He didn’t sin when he broke them, e.g. healing on Sabbath, removing the dietary laws.

God Bless

I was speaking religion as well. Here’s what the CCC says about it:

531 During the greater part of his life Jesus shared the condition of the vast majority of human beings: a daily life spent without evident greatness, a life of manual labor. His religious life was that of a Jew obedient to the law of God,221 a life in the community. From this whole period it is revealed to us that Jesus was “obedient” to his parents and that he "increased in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man."222

222 Lk 2:51-52.

The issue was not expressed as what religion did God “need.” The question was whether or not Jesus was “non-denominational.” I think the answer to that question is “no.” Jesus was raised as a Jew. His religious life was that of a Jew. The Church was not established until after the resurrection, on Pentecost Sunday. If the question is what religion is Jesus Christ now, then I suppose I would have to say he is now Catholic, as will be all souls in Heaven. BUT if we’re talking about Jesus at the time of his ministry on earth, prior to the Ascension, I would have to say that he was a Jew who upheld and fulfilled the law perfectly.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Robert_in_SD]

That’s inaccurate.

bible.cc/john/19-21.htm

Jesus was from the house and lineage David but was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, not man. The Jewish leadership was ready to stone Him to death because he referred to Himself as Yahweh and was accused of making Himself equal to God.

Peace,
Ed

You forgot the next line: Pilate did not change the language he placed on the cross. Jerusalem welcomed him as the Messianic Son of David just days before His crucifixion. Pilate was acknowledging this simple fact. The pharisees were the ones who plotted for His death, and handed him over to the Romans.

[20] Many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek.
[21] The chief priests of the Jews then said to Pilate, “Do not write, The King of the Jews,' but, This man said, I am King of the Jews.’”
[22] Pilate answered, “What I have written I have written.” (Jn 19:20-22)

I’m not sure I follow your point. It seems clear to me that Jesus was a Jew during His time on earth. The Church was not established until after his Resurrection. I thought the initial post was addressing Jesus’ religion during His ministry. He was not “non-denominational.” He was a practicing Jew.

Peace,
Robert

 

[AbideWithMe]

They probably meant I’m sure he wasn’t catholic

You: “Well, Jesus was Jewish.”
Them: “No, Jesus was non denominational, by which I mean He wasn’t Catholic.”



Why not just ask them what they meant?

 

[CopticChristian]

You: “Well, Jesus was Jewish.”
Them: “No, Jesus was non denominational, by which I mean He wasn’t Catholic.”



Why not just ask them what they meant?

Abide,

Without asking…I would say…Jesus was Catholic…The Universe was created for and by Christ…and savior for all in it…and with that in mind…Jesus is as Universal/Catholic as you can get.

Or do you want to limit the Christ?

 

[AbideWithMe]

Abide,

Without asking…I would say…Jesus was Catholic…The Universe was created for and by Christ…and savior for all in it…and with that in mind…Jesus is as Universal/Catholic as you can get.

Or do you want to limit the Christ?

Coptic—I was pointing out that it would quite a non sequitur for the person in the OP to answer Adamski’s “Well, Jesus was Jewish” with “No, he was non denominational, by which I mean he wasn’t Catholic.”

I know I’m writing this awkwardly–I’m sleepy. I’m questioning the assumption that the person was really thinking of Catholicism when saying “No, he was non denominational” when the exchange with Adamski was about Judaism. Do you understand what I’m saying now?