Jesus was not an only child

[ctavel]

I watched “Mary, Mother of Jesus” on the Discovery Science Channel this past week. It was pointed out that, based on scripture, it is obvious that Jesus was not an only child. Of course this is not the truth so I commented on their viewer relations link and provided them with links to Catholic Answers’ Library documents. I also asked if they would be willing to run a program that supports the Catholic Marian beliefs. No response from them yet…I doubt there will be a response. I just wanted all of you to know about the program. Try to watch it the next time it airs and then you too can offer feedback to their viewer relations people.

 

[Church_Militant]

Yeah, there is no viable case for the belief that Mary had other children. Even the three “pillars of the Reformation” taught the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin.

The Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

Martin Luther: “ It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin… Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact.” ( Works of Luther, Vol. 11, pages 319-320; Vol. 6, page 510.)

John Calvin: “ There have been certain folk who have wished to suggest from this passage [Matthew 1:25] that the Virgin Mary had other children than the Son of God, and that Joseph had then dwelt with her later; but what folly this is! For the gospel writer did not wish to record what happened afterwards; he simply wished to make clear Joseph’s obedience and to show that Joseph had been well and truly assured that it was God who had sent His angel to Mary. He had therefore never dwelt with her nor had he shared her company… And beside this Our Lord Jesus Christ is called the first-born. This is not because there was a second or a third, but because the gospel writer is paying regard to the precedence. Scripture speaks thus of naming the first-born whether or no there was any question of the second.” (Sermon on Matthew 1:22-25. Published in 1562.)

Ulrich Zwingli: “I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel, as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin.” ( Zwingli Opera, Vol. 1, page 424.)

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Abira]

there’s been a similar thing on in England yesterday…

the main point was that they believe that Catholicsm (and Eastern Orthodox) concentrated too much on Jesus’ Divine nature and so in a sense suppressed his human nature…ie…his family at the wedding (water to wine) and also the role his brother James took in founding the church…and downplaying the esteem that Jesus held John the Baptist…‘more than a prophet’ etc… in order to understand his divine nature all aspects of human doubt have been downplayed… they even said that Jesus followed what John the Baptist started…hence the quote given… to be honest I’m quite comfortable with this comment and debate as I do think that Jesus’ human nature is downplayed.

the main point from the programme…they ignore Jesus’ human nature in favour of his divine…and in doing so have ignored scripture…and elevated Mary to almost divine…because the balance of human/divine nature of Jesus is a complicated issue.

So I think more of this kinda programme and debate will follow for a while.

 

[vern_humphrey]

First of all, there is no word in Aramaic for “cousin.” The words for “brother” or “sister” are used to express several degrees of kinship.

Here’s an example fron John 19, 25

25 Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala

.

Now, were there two sisters named Mary, or was Mary of Clophas a cousin of Mary, the mother of Christ?

Obviously the latter!

Secondly, Joseph had been married before. He was a widower when he married Mary, and he probably did have some children by his first wife.

 

[Zooey]

I hear people saying that Mary had other children. What I have yet to hear, is anyone who has gone into Scripture & identified these “brothers & sisters”…
Because, you see, when you do a little work & cross referencing in the Bible, you very rapidly discover that everyone who is supposedly a brother or sister of Jesus…has other parents named in Scripture!

It is easy to say, “Oh, this verse calls [whomever] the Lord’s brother”, but when you check back, this is someone who has parents named.
(You gotta love it…Send folks back into the Bible to prove that they :nope: didn’t read enough of the Bible to know what it says on the subject!!)

 

[vern_humphrey]

I hear people saying that Mary had other children. What I have yet to hear, is anyone who has gone into Scripture & identified these “brothers & sisters”…
Because, you see, when you do a little work & cross referencing in the Bible, you very rapidly discover that everyone who is supposedly a brother or sister of Jesus…has other parents named in Scripture!

It is easy to say, “Oh, this verse calls [whomever] the Lord’s brother”, but when you check back, this is someone who has parents named.
(You gotta love it…Send folks back into the Bible to prove that they :nope: didn’t read enough of the Bible to know what it says on the subject!!)

The inspired authors of the Bible did not write in pericopes or proof texts. They wrote books and letters – and meant them to be read that way. The first step when challenged by someone who quotes the Bible is to go and read the quoted verses in context.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I heard a really good explanation once:

If Jesus had brothers as some protestants claim, then why would Jesus leave his mother Mary with John the Evangelist when he died? Would that not be a HUGE insult in Jewish culture? Wasn’t Jesus a perfect Jew?

 

[vern_humphrey]

I heard a really good explanation once:

If Jesus had brothers as some protestants claim, then why would Jesus leave his mother Mary with John the Evangelist when he died? Would that not be a HUGE insult in Jewish culture? Wasn’t Jesus a perfect Jew?

And notice that James the Just, “the Brother of the Lord” did **not **go and claim Mary from John, and take her into his house – as a Pharasee would surely have done.

 

[Franciscan]

Everytime I read a thread that begins with the words “I saw on the discovery channel” or 'I saw on National Geographic" I wince waiting for the next line.

It seems the de-mythologizers are now thought of as “De-coders”
Stay away from any religious documentaries that begin with “The Real…” as if they are finally revealing some unknown truth to us poor old dummies (Christians).

 

[Integritus]

The overhwlemingly majority of Christians in the world (Catholics, Orthodox, many Lutherans and some Anglicans) consisting of about 3/4th of Christianity recognize that Mary only beared one child, Jesus. Why does this get overlooked? The minority belief that James was the full-blooded brother of Jesus who also shared sonship with the Blessed Mother gets so much validity in the American media outlets like The History Channel, CNN, FOX News Channel, and Discovery Channel because these American channels are influenced by their Evangelical-Protestant heritage in the U.S. - and they don’t even know it. Thus for them, the minority belief throughout the world is taken as a “universal” or “traditional” belief.

If these unmotivated sloppy-researchers that do these shows actually learned a little Semitic linguistic structures and also learned a little of ancient Israel customs, they would learn that there is no words for “cousin” in Hebrew, Aramaic, and the other ancient Near East dialects. The 12 tribes of Israel were taught to view each other all as “brothers and sisters” binded by their covenant with God. Dr. Scott Hahn does a superb job of explaining this issue. Jesus called all, His brothers and sisters and mothers.

Mark 3:31-35:

*His mother and his brothers arrived. Standing outside they sent word to him and called him.
A crowd seated around him told him, “Your mother and your brothers (and your sisters) are outside asking for you.”
But he said to them in reply, “Who are my mother and (my) brothers?”
And looking around at those seated in the circle he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.
(For) whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother.” *

When I was going to my University a few years ago I was in a fraternity and we were taught to call our fellow members in the fraternity as “brothers”, not to mention my “big brother” that I was given. Now imagine if someone wrote about me and described how I had a brother in college. Then 2000 years later someone else reads those writings, would it be right to conclude that that brother or brothers I had in college were my full-blooded brothers? No. That’s what contemporary ignorants do of the Scriptures.

Here’s some more stuff on this:Click here

 

[Jon_S]

Hey Integritus…

That article you linked to was really good! Thanks!

-Jon

 

[Integritus]

Hey Integritus…

That article you linked to was really good! Thanks!

-Jon

Jon,

You’re most welcome!

 

[Mickey]

Holy Tradition tells us that The Virgin Mary remained a virgin her entire life—and the use of the word adelphos to describe “the brethren of Jesus” does nothing to change that.

Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Wesley all adhered to the perpetual virginity of Mary. Only in the last 150 years or so (due mainly to theological liberalism and opposition to Catholicism and Orthodoxy) has the perpetual virginity of Mary been denied by protestants (mostly evangelicals).

 

[jman507]

there’s been a similar thing on in England yesterday…

the main point was that they believe that Catholicsm (and Eastern Orthodox) concentrated too much on Jesus’ Divine nature and so in a sense suppressed his human nature…ie…his family at the wedding (water to wine) and also the role his brother James took in founding the church…and downplaying the esteem that Jesus held John the Baptist…‘more than a prophet’ etc… in order to understand his divine nature all aspects of human doubt have been downplayed… they even said that Jesus followed what John the Baptist started…hence the quote given… to be honest I’m quite comfortable with this comment and debate as I do think that Jesus’ human nature is downplayed.

the main point from the programme…they ignore Jesus’ human nature in favour of his divine…and in doing so have ignored scripture…and elevated Mary to almost divine…because the balance of human/divine nature of Jesus is a complicated issue.

So I think more of this kinda programme and debate will follow for a while.

The Church is accused of focusing on too much of Jesus’s devine nature, then next it’ll be accused of focusing too much on Jesus’s human nature. It tends to be accused of being against what ever is in fashion of what the accuser likes at the time.