Jesus wasn't crucified?

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It matters because Scripture says that the crowds called for crucifixion and the text says they crucified Him. We are not at liberty to argue with Scripture even if it makes the skeptics think we are dumb.

God Bless
 
We must be careful bibleguy…many an atheist started out as Christians until “I don’t think x matters as long as y…”
 
I’ve always thought there has been far too much emphasis placed on the cross as a symbol of Christianity. It is, after all, a rather nasty instrument of capital punishment. There’s little to be gained, in my view, from dwelling on the instrument of his death. Far more important, to me, is the resurrection–trouble is, it’s much harder to come up with a quick and instantly-identifiable symbol of the resurrection.
It’s bound to be one of those little debates that flare up now and then. The scholar was not being dismissive of scripture; he was merely suggesting that we have a look at some little-known facts about the capital punishments of the time. From a theological pespective, it would not even matter if scripture had a minor error and it turned out to be a single plank of wood, an actual tree, or some other device by which a form of crucifixion could easily be achieved.
It does matter, symbolically, that he was put to death by those he came to save. Had Jesus died of old age or fallen under a chariot, it would not have the same moral impact, even though the resurrection would still be as meaningful.
 
I recently read the same or similar article. I’m not sure what to make of it. Obviously I don’t have access to all those ancient texts (and couldn’t translate them even if I did). From what I have read, what we know as a “cross” was at least occasionally, if not frequently, used for crucifixion for hundreds of years. I’m not sure if the author has an agenda here or if it’s just a matter of translation. 🤷

It does seem odd however, that after 2000 years of folks reading those texts, someone would just now notice this.
 
bibleguy180 said:
Just wanted to know what you all think about this. I personally am skeptical but I don’t really think it matters how He died, does it? As long as He rose from the dead so that we could be saved. Hmmm… Anyway, here’s the article: aolnews.com/nation/article/little-evidence-jesus-died-on-a-cross-says-swedish-scholar/19530666

PS. sorry if this isn’t in the right place I’m new
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I think there are religions that believe Jesus died on an upright stake but they are not approved by the pope. We will have to wait and see what our holy father says in the future;
 
hansard said:
I’ve always thought there has been far too much emphasis placed on the cross as a symbol of Christianity. It is, after all, a rather nasty instrument of capital punishment. There’s little to be gained, in my view, from dwelling on the instrument of his death. Far more important, to me, is the resurrection–trouble is, it’s much harder to come up with a quick and instantly-identifiable symbol of the resurrection.
It’s bound to be one of those little debates that flare up now and then. The scholar was not being dismissive of scripture; he was merely suggesting that we have a look at some little-known facts about the capital punishments of the time. From a theological pespective, it would not even matter if scripture had a minor error and it turned out to be a single plank of wood, an actual tree, or some other device by which a form of crucifixion could easily be achieved.
It does matter, symbolically, that he was put to death by those he came to save. Had Jesus died of old age or fallen under a chariot, it would not have the same moral impact, even though the resurrection would still be as meaningful.
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Hello,

It wasn’t His resurection that saved us from our sins, He DIED to save us from our sins, his resurection served as proof that what He was saying was true. I think their is plenty to gain from knowing how grisley His death was. In fact Father Serpa’s most used response in “ask and apoligist” is to have people meditate on the Passion of our Lord. To me, Jesus sets the example. How can any of us complain that life is too hard, or that rejecting sin is impossible, or any of that, when He has been through much worse. It is a testament of His love that He died in that fashion. He was God, so I’m sure he could have set it up so that he could be beheaded or some other relatively painless death, but He didn’t…why? I say it’s because He wanted to set the example and give us hope that we can handle anything that this world throws at us. It wasn’t an accident that He died in the fashion that He died.

God Bless,

John
 
Oh, and Jesus saying “pick up your cross and follow me” before he was crucified would not make any sense if he was killed in any other way. Like I said, he was setting the example.
 
Ughhhh,

So many people seem to think that the Bible is some book that was recently written or re-discovered. They seem to forget that the Catholic Church has been around since this event happened, I’m sure that a couple hundred years didn’t pass by without anyone talking about the Passion then all of a sudden someone came up with a theory that Jesus died on a cross. That is the beauty of Sacred Tradition. The Church has ALWAYS believed he died on a cross because someone who told someone who wrote it down was actually there when it happend. Also, Peter requesting to be killed in a different manner than crucifixion on a cross because he was not worthy to die in the same way as our Lord, would not make a whole lot of sense if Christ was impaled or something else.
 
I think there are religions that believe Jesus died on an upright stake but they are not approved by the pope. We will have to wait and see what our holy father says in the future;
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My point is: does it matter at all what the Pope thinks about this? The Pope, for all his theological authority, can neither add to, nor detract from, the great debate about the method of Jesus’ death. Holy Father probably has other things to worry about in the church at this time.
How can a Papal statement illuminate this tangential matter at all?

One would hope that this is not going to become the subject of another ex-cathedra statement:

“We hold that Christ was crucified on a t-shaped, wooden device, with the cross-bar of the “t” approximately three-quarters of the way from the ground, and set perpendicularly to the long bar. The device was placed in such a manner that the long bar of the “t” protruded directly upright from the surrounding earth…”

Can you imagine the Pope having anything to do with this?

(This is written from the perspective of a Catholic who dares to have an individual perspective on some matters.)
 
To me, Jesus sets the example. How can any of us complain that life is too hard, or that rejecting sin is impossible, or any of that, when He has been through much worse. It is a testament of His love that He died in that fashion. He was God, so I’m sure he could have set it up so that he could be beheaded or some other relatively painless death, but He didn’t…why? I say it’s because He wanted to set the example and give us hope that we can handle anything that this world throws at us. It wasn’t an accident that He died in the fashion that He died.
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Are you suggesting that (while I recognise its awefulness) Jesus’ death is the worst that could be endured?
I think we are on the same page, to a large extent, in claiming that Christ’s death was necessarily gruesome and, as I said, at the hands of those he came to save. It would not have been anywhere near the same message had he been stabbed to death, or something like that.

I think you are off the mark when you separate his death from his resurrection. You seem to see the resurrection as a rubber stamp, almost as an after-thought.
Let me explain: I think the death was necessary, and it had to be important and significant. It would have been big news at the time. However, I also think that the manner of death (cross, tree, hanging, whatever) is not really important at all.

Historically, he died.

Theologically, (thank God) he died.

And he would have remained stone, cold dead, unless…

he was resurrected. And that is the promise to all the faithful (due to God’s forgiveness). It’s often said that divinity became human so that humanity could become divine.

That is the only thing we have. Crosses, crucifixes–they hardly matter. The divine price has been paid and reclaimed.

It is we who matter now.
 
hansard said:
My point is: does it matter at all what the Pope thinks about this? The Pope, for all his theological authority, can neither add to, nor detract from, the great debate about the method of Jesus’ death. Holy Father probably has other things to worry about in the church at this time.
How can a Papal statement illuminate this tangential matter at all?

One would hope that this is not going to become the subject of another ex-cathedra statement:

“We hold that Christ was crucified on a t-shaped, wooden device, with the cross-bar of the “t” approximately three-quarters of the way from the ground, and set perpendicularly to the long bar. The device was placed in such a manner that the long bar of the “t” protruded directly upright from the surrounding earth…”

Can you imagine the Pope having anything to do with this?

(This is written from the perspective of a Catholic who dares to have an individual perspective on some matters.)
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It matters because the Church has always maintained the Bible is the the truth because it is the Word of God. If we say, “Yeah but…” then we are by extension saying either God is a liar or the Bible is not the Word of God.

Do you see problem?

The other side is that there are plenty of people who will say Jesus was a swell guy and it was bad what happened to Him, but that is not true. For as C S Lewis pointed out, Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore He is either a demon out of Hell, a raving lunatic, or He is exactly what He claimed ot be. But let us have none of this nice person foolishness but the option is not open too us, and He intended it that way.

God Bless
 
bogeydogg said:
It matters because the Church has always maintained the Bible is the the truth because it is the Word of God. If we say, “Yeah but…” then we are by extension saying either God is a liar or the Bible is not the Word of God.

Do you see problem?

The other side is that there are plenty of people who will say Jesus was a swell guy and it was bad what happened to Him, but that is not true. For as C S Lewis pointed out, Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore He is either a demon out of Hell, a raving lunatic, or He is exactly what He claimed ot be. But let us have none of this nice person foolishness but the option is not open too us, and He intended it that way.

God Bless
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Well the thing is not arguing with the Bible, but the fact that the original Greek word didn’t have to mean crucifixion.
 
hansard said:
Are you suggesting that (while I recognise its awefulness) Jesus’ death is the worst that could be endured?
I think we are on the same page, to a large extent, in claiming that Christ’s death was necessarily gruesome and, as I said, at the hands of those he came to save. It would not have been anywhere near the same message had he been stabbed to death, or something like that.

I think you are off the mark when you separate his death from his resurrection. You seem to see the resurrection as a rubber stamp, almost as an after-thought.
Let me explain: I think the death was necessary, and it had to be important and significant. It would have been big news at the time. However, I also think that the manner of death (cross, tree, hanging, whatever) is not really important at all.

Historically, he died.

Theologically, (thank God) he died.

And he would have remained stone, cold dead, unless…

he was resurrected. And that is the promise to all the faithful (due to God’s forgiveness). It’s often said that divinity became human so that humanity could become divine.

That is the only thing we have. Crosses, crucifixes–they hardly matter. The divine price has been paid and reclaimed.

It is we who matter now.
Click to expand...
When I was in Iraq, 130 degrees felt like 120 and 140, once we crossed that certain point it was all terrible and the actual degree didn’t matter. Christ’s death is like that with other terrible deaths, burning, is probably the only thing that I can think of that would compare, but when you add the humiliation, the beatings, the fact that He was being wronged by those He was there to save, I’ll say yeah, it’s probably about as bad as it gets.

If it seems that I seperated His death from His resurection, I apologize, that was not my intent. They were both neccesary as you can’t have Christianity without both. My point was that His death, and it’s method, IS important because He DIED for our sins, and the manner of His death serves as a standard and something to mediatate on so that we can attempt to put into perspective how much God loves us, so that we can understand the proper way to love Him and others.

No I do not think it is important if He was nailed with 3 nails or 4, or if He was nailed while laying down before the cross was set, or if He was nailed while it was standing. Unless it says specifically in Scripture those types of details then I agree, it is not that important. But when the author of the article in the OP says that He could have been impaled or any other nasty thing that the legioneers could come up with, I have to agrue because Scripture says that Pilot gave into the crowd and had him Crucified.

As far as something not being important because it is, “we who matter now”, I have to disagree, ALL of Salvation history is important for one reason or another. To look past the Lord’s Passion because it is a needless detail is to ignore some very important aspects of God’s divine nature. All we can know about God is what He has revealed. We shouldn’t ignore any details that show us how God operates.

God bless,

John
 
hansard said:
bogeydogg, I think you have misread my intention.

Peace, anyway.
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Sorry I wasn’t trying to be combative just clear. The Scripture is important to all the Church and so I am a little militant about it sorry if I came across harshly.

God Bless
 
bibleguy180 said:
Just wanted to know what you all think about this. I personally am skeptical but I don’t really think it matters how He died, does it? As long as He rose from the dead so that we could be saved. Hmmm… Anyway, here’s the article: aolnews.com/nation/article/little-evidence-jesus-died-on-a-cross-says-swedish-scholar/19530666

PS. sorry if this isn’t in the right place I’m new
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No. Just, no. Don’t question your faith because of one article which contradicts the Bible and the faith of billions of people that have existed for 2,000 years. That’s just some dumb money making scheme, and just. No.
 
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