Jesus

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Hashi Al-Eritre:
In general, we believe christianity is more about the teachings of Paul than it is the teachings of Jesus. To prove this, i will just address some of the confirmed teachings of Jesus and illustrate how Muslims actually do follow Jesus’ teachings.
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Maybe it’s better to stick to the teaching of Jesus in order to address the thrust of this thread. Bringing Paul in would confuse which can be discussed is a separate thread.

Some of the examples of the teaching of Jesus which Muslims may have problems with:-

…He is the Christ, the Son of the living God… Matt 16

Come to me. all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Matt 11:28

Love your neighbour as yourself. Luke 10

Jesus will judge the living and the dead at the end of the world.
 
Hashi Al-Eritre:
continued…

In the Quran here are many things God has ordered and forbade, but there are 3 consecutive verses that are similar to the kind of commandments Moses came with. They are the following:
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  1. You shall have no gods before me.
  2. You shall make for yourself no graven images.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  4. Honor the sabbath to keep it holy.
  5. Honor your mother and father.
  6. You shall not kill.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not lie.
  10. You shall not covet.
I only asked, since we both regard Moses as a prophet and I wanted to know if the Koran records the ten commandments when it speaks of Moses. My copy hasn’t arrived to me yet.
 
Chris LaRock:
I only asked, since we both regard Moses as a prophet and I wanted to know if the Koran records the ten commandments when it speaks of Moses. My copy hasn’t arrived to me yet.
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No the Quran only mentions that Moses was given the Tablets and the Torah, it does not mention the ten commandments in specific. The Tablets that were given to Moses by God contained all the commandments of what was lawful and forbidden.

“And We wrote for him on the Tablets the lesson to be drawn from all things and the explanation of all things (and said): Hold unto these with firmness, and enjoin your people to take the better therein. I shall show you the home of Al-Fâsiqûn (the rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).” (Al-A’raf 7:145)

Ill ask more about whether there are any prophetic narrations that speaks about the ten commandments in specific. But whats certian is that the quran does support the commandments.

Just curious, which translation of the Quran did you purchase? Im asking because there are many, and some are not so good.
 
I’m not sure what it’s called, but the Bible has many different translations also. Most infamously, the ‘New World Translation’. This one is used by Jehovah’s witnesses and contains many obvious alterations and omissions made to suit thier theology.

Are there rouge Muslims who alter the Koran for thier own goals, as Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses do with the Bible?
 
Chris LaRock:
Are there rouge Muslims who alter the Koran for thier own goals, as Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses do with the Bible?
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Yes there are many. Various sects in Islam have their own interpretation of the Quran. But i was talking more about the english translations that are made available, as most are just independent works not really based on a sectarian methodology. But even independent works are not all correct, and some just make the quran very difficult to understand, or deprive its benefit.

I think the best translation for a Non-Muslim is the Saheeh International Translation of the Quran. It is a revised version of ‘The Noble Quran Translation by Muhsin Khan’ in that they kept the proper interpretation of the verses but revised the english so that it has a better flow.
 
There are many interesting renderings of the Bible. I have several. Here are a few:

King James
New King James
New International Version
New Living Translation
The Message Remix
Good News Translation (Catholic Rainbow edition)

New King James is best for quoting, The rest are good, but some of the scriptures lose thier impact with the new wordings they use.

The Message remix is the bible in story book form.

The rainbow bible is color coded according to topics. I have the Catholic edition - my only Catholic Bible.

Are there any such varioations of the Koran? Maybe, a color coded study edition?
 
Chris LaRock:
If Muslims see Jesus as a prophet, why don’t they follow his teachings? (love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, turn the other cheek, ect…)
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I still think thread is interesting and worthwhile to discuss. Why Muslims don’t follow the teaching of Jesus if they see him as a prophet.

Beside Chris LaRock, I did give some examples of teaching of Jesus that Muslims may have problem with. These have not been dealt with and I thought perhaps those examples were theological where differences can be subjective.

Here I’m giving a practical example of teaching that is being lived out in our ordinary life. And where the teaching of Jesus seems to be contradicted in the Quran.

Regarding marriage:-

Divorce was accepted as a part of life in Islamic culture. A man can divorce his wife anytime by saying three times, “I divorce you”.

However, a wife was not permitted to initiate a divorce nor could she stop her husband from divorcing her. (This practice is based on Surah 4:34). Maybe the Muslims here can correct this if the understanding on this Surah is different from mine.

The Quran allows a man to have up to four wives if he is able to support them (Surah 4-3). (Of course, however, Muhammad was permitted to have more than four wife. But this is not the point here.)

Jesus teaching on women in marriage is a stark contrast to Muhammad’s.

“… Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commit adultery” .See Mk 10:2-12 .

Jesus also gave marriage a high spiritual status when he supported the teaching of the OT that says God ordains the bond between a man and a wife. This bond is so close that it is describe as two people becoming one flesh.

Conclusion – a teaching of Jesus that is not followed in Islam.
 
Another example of that in the OT was when King David had that man killed so he could claim his wife. God didn’t acknowledge the marriage, and the woman was refered to as still being the wife of the murdered man, rather than David.

Many Islamic teachings I’ve heard contradict the teachings of Jesus. From what I hear, Islam tells people to seek revenge against those who wrong them, rather than to turn the other cheek.

I only decided to ask other questions, since I had the attention of a Muslim who I can see knows the answers.
 
Chris LaRock:
Another example of that in the OT was when King David had that man killed so he could claim his wife. God didn’t acknowledge the marriage, and the woman was refered to as still being the wife of the murdered man, rather than David.

Many Islamic teachings I’ve heard contradict the teachings of Jesus. From what I hear, Islam tells people to seek revenge against those who wrong them, rather than to turn the other cheek.

I only decided to ask other questions, since I had the attention of a Muslim who I can see knows the answers.
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Right. There are more such teachings that are contradicted to in Islam. To be fair, maybe just deal one at a time. I’m sure our Muslim brothers and sisters here have their own views on them.

GBU
 
I suspect that some religious faiths are only paying lip service to Jesus, but not acknowledging the truth about him.
 
Chris LaRock:
I suspect that some religious faiths are only paying lip service to Jesus, but not acknowledging the truth about him.
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That’s the problem. I’ve been trying to say it here to the Muslims.

They accept the prophets. How? Which ones? How do we know the truth about them if we don’t have any reference/record about them. Just because a Quran says so, it still have to be corrobarated to some extent by historical records and independent texts.

Is Alexander the Great a prophet according to Islam? You be surprised by the claims it makes.
 
Chris LaRock:
The Koran contradicte the bible on almost everything.
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For a book that accepts earlier prophets of God, it’s as if the Quran fell from the sky and the world started there and then. Oblivious to whats happening earlier on. This is how I see it from a Christian persepctive.

So it’s not surprising that there are so many contradictions.

Remind me of what the serpent said to Eve. “Did God really tell you … ?” And the woman answered, “yes, …”

The snake replied, “that’s not true, …” (See Gen 3)

The rest is history. The woman (and the man too) sinned and the world was never tha same again … for the serpent suceeded in doing what it wanted to do.
 
Reuben J:
Is Alexander the Great a prophet according to Islam? You be surprised by the claims it makes.
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No he is NOT a prophet of God.
 
Hashi Al-Eritre:
No he is NOT a prophet of God.
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Thanks. I take it from you then.

I have Muslims colleagues who aren’t too sure that Zulkarnain was Alexander the Great. They thought he was.
 
Reuben J:
For a book that accepts earlier prophets of God, it’s as if the Quran fell from the sky and the world started there and then. Oblivious to whats happening earlier on. This is how I see it from a Christian persepctive.

So it’s not surprising that there are so many contradictions.

Remind me of what the serpent said to Eve. “Did God really tell you … ?” And the woman answered, “yes, …”

The snake replied, “that’s not true, …” (See Gen 3)

The rest is history. The woman (and the man too) sinned and the world was never tha same again … for the serpent suceeded in doing what it wanted to do.
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That’s why the savior had to come into the world.
 
Edris said:
1- Bring me Jesus’ teachings and i’ll be more than happy to follow it.

2- You believe in the Old Testament, the teachings of Moses pbuh, then why don’t you follow it?

3- “love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, turn the other cheek, ect…”

To be honest this doesn’t make sense to me. Let me give you an example, if an american is going to apply these teachings, he’ll have to love Osama bin laden, pray for him, and give him access to US soil so that he can bomb another building filled with innocent people.
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Yes, you don’t understand do you! All of that makes no sense to you, so you joke about it. You have hit on the main differences between Christianity and Islam.

When Pope John Paul II was shot by a Muslim, he went to the jail and forgave the man who tried to assassinate him.

Right after the attacks on Sept. 11, I remember seeing a show on EWTN, the Catholic network, where one of the priests prayed not only for the victims and their families, but also for those who had perpetrated such terrible crimes.

Christians have committed atrocities, but these terrible things have always been done in complete opposition to what Jesus Christ taught us. IMHO when Muslims commit atrocities they believe they’re doing them with Allah’s blessings, and here’s the proof:

faithfreedom.org/Articles/quran_teaches.htm

By the way, faithfreedom. org is a website run by ex-Muslims who know Islam and the Quran very well, and that’s why they’re no longer Muslims.

Vickie
 
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Booklover:
Christians have committed atrocities, *but these terrible things have always been done in complete opposition to what Jesus Christ taught us. * IMHO when Muslims commit atrocities they believe they’re doing them with Allah’s blessingsVickie
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I dont understand your defence here. When Christians commit a crime or atrocity in the name of God, that is no different than when a Muslim commits a crime or atrocity in the name of God. The only difference is that one is a christian and the other is a muslim. One is a Christian criminal and another is a Muslim criminal. They are still however criminals.
 
Hashi Al-Eritre:
I dont understand your defence here. When Christians commit a crime or atrocity in the name of God, that is no different than when a Muslim commits a crime or atrocity in the name of God. The only difference is that one is a christian and the other is a muslim. One is a Christian criminal and another is a Muslim criminal. They are still however criminals.
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I agree they’re both criminals. Yes, if we commit crimes in the name of God, we are doing them against the teachings of Jesus. Do you not understand? Did you even bother to check the link I posted listing all the exhortations to violence in the Quran? What the Quran teaches is very different to what Jesus taught us. The Quran brought back all the violence of the Old Testament. Do you not see the difference?

Vickie:o
 
For those who may have forgotten, here is the OP:
If Muslims see Jesus as a prophet, why don’t they follow his teachings? (love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, turn the other cheek, ect…)
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This is the topic of this thread.

Thanks!
 
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