Jesus's house?

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patrick457 said:
This isn’t really the place to discuss this thing again (let’s do it someplace else), but I think this scenario relies too heavily on the idea that Antipas’ defeat (ca. 35-36) happened relatively almost immediately after he had John put to death. Josephus does claim that Antipas’ defeat by the Nabataeans was seen as divine punishment for the murder of John, but I don’t think that the two events necessarily have to be in close proximity with one another, for the mills of God ground slowly.

To use an analogy, Christians viewed the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 as divine punishment for the rejection and death of Jesus. There’s almost a forty-year gap between those two events (much more than what could have elapsed between John’s death and Antipas’ defeat), but that didn’t stop them from connecting the two events together. The other interpretation saw it as punishment for the death of James the brother of Jesus in 62 - eight years ago. I guess God is not as quick to punish people as we would like. 🤷 (On the Jewish side you have the destruction blamed upon the murder of Jonathan the high priest and other acts of bloodshed during Felix’s reign a decade or two earlier. So again, not as ‘immediate’ as some would like.)

Another analogy: a Jewish belief also ascribed Pompey’s assassination in 48 BC as divine punishment for his laying siege to Jerusalem in 63 BC. That’s a fifteen-year gap there, but the 1st century BC work Psalms of Solomon (which hints to this event) could still say: “God is a righteous judge, and He is no respecter of persons. For the nations reproached Jerusalem, trampling it down; her beauty was dragged down from the throne of glory …] And I had not long to wait before God showed me the insolent one slain on the mountains of Egypt…” (2.18-19/20, 30) Yet another one is Antiochus Epiphanes, the Seleucid king who desecrated the temple and tried to impose Hellenistic culture on the Jews: it took him about three years to die after he had done that, but his death was still considered to be retribution for his desecration. Chronological proximity or distance was really not a factor in determining whether an event was some sort of divine punishment.
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Briefly, according the late-crucifixion hypothesis, there was an 8-9 month lag from the execution of the John the Baptist to Antipas’ defeat. The Passover of A.D. 35 occurred in the interval- the one Jesus’ celebrated in the Decapolis after fleeing Judea.
 
steve53 said:
Briefly, according the late-crucifixion hypothesis, there was an 8-9 month lag from the execution of the John the Baptist to Antipas’ defeat. The Passover of A.D. 35 occurred in the interval- the one Jesus’ celebrated in the Decapolis after fleeing Judea.
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Well, who’s to say that the lag couldn’t have lasted longer than mere months? I think putting John’s death close to Antipas’ defeat is really imposing an additional and unnecessary requirement on (perceived) divine punishment: that it had to fall down swiftly for it to be considered ‘divine punishment’. Whereas as I’ve shown, Jews and Christians did not necessarily impose a sort of ‘It’s gotta happen fast’ sort of mentality on these types of things. The destruction of Jerusalem happened more than forty years after Jesus’ death, around eight years after James’ death, around two years after Ananus’ death, and more than a decade since Felix’s reign; fifteen years lasted between Pompey’s siege of Jerusalem and his assassination; three years between Antiochus Epiphanes’ desecration of the temple and his death. And all these events were considered to be divine punishments for these atrocities.

But seriously, Steve, we’re derailing this thread again. I ain’t gonna repeat much of what I said around two years ago here.
 
patrick457 said:
Well, who’s to say that the lag couldn’t have lasted longer than mere months? I think putting John’s death close to Antipas’ defeat is really imposing an additional and unnecessary requirement on (perceived) divine punishment: that it had to fall down swiftly for it to be considered ‘divine punishment’. Whereas as I’ve shown, Jews and Christians did not necessarily impose a sort of ‘It’s gotta happen fast’ sort of mentality on these types of things. The destruction of Jerusalem happened more than forty years after Jesus’ death, around eight years after James’ death, around two years after Ananus’ death, and more than a decade since Felix’s reign; fifteen years lasted between Pompey’s siege of Jerusalem and his assassination; three years between Antiochus Epiphanes’ desecration of the temple and his death. And all these events were considered to be divine punishments for these atrocities.

But seriously, Steve, we’re derailing this thread again. I ain’t gonna repeat much of what I said around two years ago here.
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While it does seem there has been a digression, God in Scripture often does wait generations to fulfill justice.

ICXC NIKA
 
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