Jesus's limited knowledge while on earth

[Ilovejesus1234]

CCC 472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”, and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

CCC 474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

I now understand He did have limited understanding in His human life and could only know that the second coming was going to happen. He didn’t know the exact date because my guess is that He knew the details of it but not the exact date because His way of counting time (at the time) was way different than ours.

Also when He was human on earth, would you say that He is still finite, or is that when He died and got His glorified body, He became infinite? My guess is that He became infinite and started to know everything and was no longer a limited human but unlimited God, if that makes sense.

Also would He know the future during His life on earth? Would He have been able to see me right now in this time frame, and understand that i loved him while i am praying my Divine Mercy Chaplet? While He also understood many people throwing Him out of their hearts at this present moment?

My guess is He would have felt it most prominently during His passion, the good and bad, of what everyone gave Him in the world(for all of time), i read this way of thinking in many books and use it when i pray my chaplet, i usually think of all the bad everyone gave Him and how all of time rejected Him, while i at this moment gave Him happiness during his passion with the love i fed towards Him. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Purgatory_Pete]

would He know the future during His life on earth? Would He have been able to see me right now in this time frame, and understand that i loved him while i am praying my Divine Mercy Chaplet? While He also understood many people throwing Him out of their hearts at this present moment?

He would and He did. Jesus knows your heart, you can be sure of that.
He also knows the future of how we will be towards Him, in our heart.
Here are examples of Him talking of future things.
But Jesus turning to them, said: Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not over me; but weep for yourselves, and for your children. For behold, the days shall come, wherein they will say: Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that have not borne, and the paps that have not given suck. Then shall they begin to say to the mountains: Fall upon us; and to the hills: Cover us. For if in the green wood they do these things, what shall be done in the dry?

Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here that shall not taste of death at all until they shall have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Therefore thus saith the Lord: I will return to Jerusalem in mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the Lord of hosts: and the building line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. Cry yet, saying: Thus saith the Lord of hosts: My cities shall yet flow with good things : and the Lord will yet comfort Sion, and he will yet choose Jerusalem.

You may have already read these and others without realising that they are to do with future things.

Hope this helped:tiphat:

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

I see but if he could tell the future why wouldn’t he be able to know exact date of the 2nd coming, maybe he didn’t know how our calendar worked? Idk i am confused

 

[GEddie]

IDK if this is really relevant, but here goes:

Judaism holds that “part” of our soul does not fit inside our bodies, but in the resurrectional life, it all will.

Likewise, “part” of the Divine knowledge might not have fully “fit” inside our LORD’s human head, such as to be explainable via language to others; but it was not unavailable to Him.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Purgatory_Pete]

I see but if he could tell the future why wouldn’t he be able to know exact date of the 2nd coming, maybe he didn’t know how our calendar worked? Idk i am confused

He speaks of the future of mankind’s actions
and warns of what we are heading for if we don’t listen.
This is what He came to tell us, He had no need to know
the date of the second coming.
nor do we.

If He had brought this knowledge to earth and told us that,
He will return on Dec 16 2017, then from Dec 10th
2017 there would be riots at every church as people rush to
confession.

We would live horrid lives up until the last moment.

The knowledge is always there for Him but He only
brought what was required when He came.
(this is a bad comparison but it’s the best I can do with limited time)
If you go to the dentist you don’t take your birth certificate or passport with you,
do you? because it is not required for what needs to be done.
and if someone asked you for the exact information on those documents,
you would say you don’t have that information.
It doesn’t mean you never have access to it.
but you will also never look at them unless you really need them.
And Jesus the Son never needs to know this information,
He Trusts His Father with it. as we all should.

I have to go, I’m running late (NO, not for the dentists)

Hope this helped. :tiphat:

 

[Linusthe2nd]

CCC 472 This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favor with God and man”, and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience. This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.

CCC 474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal. What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.

I now understand He did have limited understanding in His human life and could only know that the second coming was going to happen. He didn’t know the exact date because my guess is that He knew the details of it but not the exact date because His way of counting time (at the time) was way different than ours.

Also when He was human on earth, would you say that He is still finite, or is that when He died and got His glorified body, He became infinite? My guess is that He became infinite and started to know everything and was no longer a limited human but unlimited God, if that makes sense.

Also would He know the future during His life on earth? Would He have been able to see me right now in this time frame, and understand that i loved him while i am praying my Divine Mercy Chaplet? While He also understood many people throwing Him out of their hearts at this present moment?

My guess is He would have felt it most prominently during His passion, the good and bad, of what everyone gave Him in the world(for all of time), i read this way of thinking in many books and use it when i pray my chaplet, i usually think of all the bad everyone gave Him and how all of time rejected Him, while i at this moment gave Him happiness during his passion with the love i fed towards Him. Hope this makes sense.

His Divine nature knew all things, including the future, just like the Father and the Holy Spirit. His human nature had to learn the same things all humans have to learn, according to the time and places they live in. And he knew all other things the Divine nature chose to tell him. He certainly was informed of all things related to his mission of salvation and that his human nature was united to the Divinity. He also enjoyed the Beatific Vision from the moment of his birth. But I think it unwise to speculate too much into these things.

Linus2nd

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

My mom said that his divine knowledge couldn’t translate to his human knowledge because keeping time in heaven is different than keeping time on earth, therefore he was limited in his human form. I don’t get this though, i hope someone can explain it to me.

Also would his glorified resurrected body know the EXACT date pretty much?

 

[GEddie]

My mom said that his divine knowledge couldn’t translate to his human knowledge because keeping time in heaven is different than keeping time on earth, therefore he was limited in his human form. I don’t get this though, i hope someone can explain it to me.

Also would his glorified resurrected body know the EXACT date pretty much?

There isn’t collinear time in Heaven.

Our natural human bodies are limited by time in the amount of thought they can squeeze into a brain wave.

So HIS Divine mind wouldn’t fit completely into HIS human head.

But the heads of our spiritual bodies will not be limited by collinear time.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

There isn’t collinear time in Heaven.

Our natural human bodies are limited by time in the amount of thought they can squeeze into a brain wave.

So HIS Divine mind wouldn’t fit completely into HIS human head.

But the heads of our spiritual bodies will not be limited by collinear time.

ICXC NIKA

I am not sure the catholic church believes in that theory :/. The CCC is the best we got but through faith i am trying to find the answer listed in the replies above. Sorry if it is complicated as well.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

My mom said that his divine knowledge couldn’t translate to his human knowledge because keeping time in heaven is different than keeping time on earth, therefore he was limited in his human form. I don’t get this though, i hope someone can explain it to me.

I don’t think we need to know the answer. But I think your Mom was trying to say that even Christ’s human mind had finite limits precisely because it was human. I think Thomas Aquinas would agree with your Mom, Christ’s human mind could not ever know all that is contained in the Infinite depths of his Divine Intellect.

Also would his glorified resurrected body know the EXACT date pretty much?

Christ’s human intellect, whether glorified or not would contain only that Divine Knowledge his Divine Nature cared to communicate. I am sure that Christ’s human intellect always knew " the day and the hour. " When he said he didn’t, he was simply saying that the Father did not want him to reveal it to men. At least that is the way theologians explain it.

Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I am not sure the catholic church believes in that theory :/. The CCC is the best we got but through faith i am trying to find the answer listed in the replies above. Sorry if it is complicated as well.

The Church has no teaching on this. You might look at the Summa Theologiae of Thomas Aquinas on the subject of man and eternal life and see what he says. I don’t remember myself. newadvent.org/summa/5.htm

Linus2nd

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

I don’t think we need to know the answer. But I think your Mom was trying to say that even Christ’s human mind had finite limits precisely because it was human. I think Thomas Aquinas would agree with your Mom, Christ’s human mind could not ever know all that is contained in the Infinite depths of his Divine Intellect.

Christ’s human intellect, whether glorified or not would contain only that Divine Knowledge his Divine Nature cared to communicate. I am sure that Christ’s human intellect always knew " the day and the hour. " When he said he didn’t, he was simply saying that the Father did not want him to reveal it to men. At least that is the way theologians explain it.

Linus2nd

I think that in his human life he would be finite, but now when he is in heaven glorified i am pretty sure he has an expanded intellect and does know the hour of which he will come again. My estimates indicated he is human/spiritual form meaning he can turn into a spirit and a human at will(after resurrection), but that is just my guess, anyway now he is glorified, knows the same as the father in my estimation but on earth he only had the intellect he was born to have and to which he came here to have according to his role. Hope this makes sense

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I think that in his human life he would be finite, but now when he is in heaven glorified i am pretty sure he has an expanded intellect and does know the hour of which he will come again. My estimates indicated he is human/spiritual form meaning he can turn into a spirit and a human at will(after resurrection), but that is just my guess, anyway now he is glorified, knows the same as the father in my estimation but on earth he only had the intellect he was born to have and to which he came here to have according to his role. Hope this makes sense

That is contrary to Catholic teaching, to Catholic Dogma. We can argue about precisely what knowledge his human nature had which would be some sharing in Divine knowledge, which would be beyond what is properly human knowledge. But faithful Catholics may not deny that Jesus Christ had a human and a Divine nature, which means he had a human intellect and will and he also had a Divine intellect and will. I hope this is helpful. We do have to be careful about what we say.

Linus2nd

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

That is contrary to Catholic teaching, to Catholic Dogma. We can argue about precisely what knowledge his human nature had which would be some sharing in Divine knowledge, which would be beyond what is properly human knowledge. But faithful Catholics may not deny that Jesus Christ had a human and a Divine nature, which means he had a human intellect and will and he also had a Divine intellect and will. I hope this is helpful. We do have to be careful about what we say.

Linus2nd

So you’re saying that this situation is impossible for god; to at first be limited in his full intellect during his human life, but later on when he dies & rises from the dead to later be later unlimited and have full knowledge about the details about the second coming, as opposed to having only limited knowledge of the second coming during his earthly life. I agree that he is fully human and fully god, but don’t you agree that after his resurrection he became more fully “god” by taking off his human limitations?

 

[GEddie]

So you’re saying that this situation is impossible for god; to at first be limited in his full intellect during his human life, but later on when he dies & rises from the dead to later be later unlimited and have full knowledge about the details about the second coming, as opposed to having only limited knowledge of the second coming during his earthly life. I agree that he is fully human and fully god, but don’t you agree that after his resurrection he became more fully “god” by taking off his human limitations?

Depending on how you say that.

He remained a human being by His resurrection and remains one now.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

I know that but what i am saying is that was his limits after his resurrection taken off. So he really wouldn’t have human limits anymore?

 

[GEddie]

I know that but what i am saying is that was his limits after his resurrection taken off. So he really wouldn’t have human limits anymore?

Certainly not as we understand them; is is our mortality, after all, whence most of our limitations originate.

I’d be beyond amazed if an infinite mind could ever fit in a solid head, though!

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Ilovejesus1234]

Certainly not as we understand them; is is our mortality, after all, whence most of our limitations originate.

I’d be beyond amazed if an infinite mind could ever fit in a solid head, though!

ICXC NIKA.

Can you reword this i am having a bit of trouble understanding. All I am having trouble understanding is if right now i thanked god for suffering for me, would he have saw how grateful i was during his passion or his earthly life?

 

[GEddie]

Can you reword this i am having a bit of trouble understanding. All I am having trouble understanding is if right now i thanked god for suffering for me, would he have saw how grateful i was during his passion or his earthly life?

I think He would, as He is no longer limited by time.

ICXC NIKA