Jewelry, makeup, etc. Vanity?

[Dan_Daly]

Going “beyond” the requirements of the Church MAY enslave you to sin. Or it MAY lead you to heaven. It depends in what way you go “beyond” the “minimum requirements”.

Confession and reception of Communion are required once a year. That’s the minimum requirement. Going more frequently does not lead you away from Christ.

Also look to the lives of the Saints, all of whom went well “beyond” the minimum requirements of being a faithful Catholic.

 

[Portrait]

Going “beyond” the requirements of the Church MAY enslave you to sin. Or it MAY lead you to heaven. It depends in what way you go “beyond” the “minimum requirements”.

Confession and reception of Communion are required once a year. That’s the minimum requirement. Going more frequently does not lead you away from Christ.

Also look to the lives of the Saints, all of whom went well “beyond” the minimum requirements of being a faithful Catholic.

Dear Dan Daly,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good post that and your previous one also.

There is a tendency among many modern day Catholics, one sees it continually on CAF, to take refuge behind ‘prudential judgement’ arguments to excuse all manner of worldliness and observance of only the minimum requirements of Catholic discipleship. It is most unfortunate that so many nowadays have embraced a sort of ‘Catholicism Lite’ that recalcitrantly refuses to live up to the arduous demands of our most holy religion, unlike the saints of old who were in earnest regarding the pursuit of holiness and self-denial.

Methinks that the elephant in the room is the whole issue of sanctity and separation from the irrelgious world. Needless to say, this is not a fashionable subject (has it ever been?) in contemporary Catholicism and is seldom spoken about, if indeed ever, in homilies or in the popular Catholic media. Thus rather than providing a robust Catholic counter-culture, many Catholics have succumbed and capitulated to the secular drift with a degree of weakness and nervelessness unmatched in the history of the Church. The sad fact is that many modern Catholics, especially among the youth, no longer think with an authentic Catholic mind and so it is hardly surprising that they take as their benchmark whatever the world thinks acceptable and whatever is the current trend in secular society, even if that is at variance with the consistent teaching of the Church or the whole tenor of Catholic tradition.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

PS A warm welcome to the world of CAF, dear friend.

 

[MissRose73]

Women in the ancient world/Bible times even wore jewelry and some form of cosmetics available. Today’s women do the same thing, but we have many more choices now.

I do wear some make up and a few pieces of jewelry like a necklace & some earrings maybe a bracelet and/or a ring for work. Same for Mass attendance. I respect the decisions of those who do wear no makeup and/or jewelry like my mother who only wears her wedding/engagement rings and a cross necklace, and no make up at all.

 

[Della]

Going “beyond” the requirements of the Church MAY enslave you to sin. Or it MAY lead you to heaven. It depends in what way you go “beyond” the “minimum requirements”.

Confession and reception of Communion are required once a year. That’s the minimum requirement. Going more frequently does not lead you away from Christ.

Also look to the lives of the Saints, all of whom went well “beyond” the minimum requirements of being a faithful Catholic.

I am speaking of displaying a “holier-than-thou” attitude by some who judge others by mere appearances. Any woman who decides not to wear make up is doing no harm, but neither is the woman who does. It’s a neutral issue, not worth getting worked up over. Make up and jewelry certainly don’t rise to the level of sin when used in good taste and with prudential judgment. That is the freedom we enjoy in Christ–not to be bound to any one person’s notions of modesty but we are bound by what the Church says on the topic, which is only that all persons should be modest in heart as well as in actions.

 

[Dan_Daly]

I am speaking of displaying a “holier-than-thou” attitude by some who judge others by mere appearances.

The idea of “not judging others” has come up a lot in this thread and others. My wife and I were just discussing a sermon last night in which the priest discussed the topic. There are two elements- judging objective sinfulness and subjective sinfulness. We may and should do the former, we may not do the latter.

If I see a man break into the vault at the bank and drive away with the money, I can objectively judge that he has commited a theft. I can’t judge the state of his heart. Only God can.

If I see a man in flip flops, cut off shorts, and a t-shirt or a woman in a cocktail dress at Mass, I can objectively judge that they are dressed imodestly. I can not judge the state of their hearts.

Pax.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Dear Dan Daly,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly good post that and your previous one also.

There is a tendency among many modern day Catholics, one sees it continually on CAF, to take refuge behind ‘prudential judgement’ arguments to excuse all manner of worldliness and observance of only the minimum requirements of Catholic discipleship. It is most unfortunate that so many nowadays have embraced a sort of ‘Catholicism Lite’ that recalcitrantly refuses to live up to the arduous demands of our most holy religion, unlike the saints of old who were in earnest regarding the pursuit of holiness and self-denial.

Methinks that the elephant in the room is the whole issue of sanctity and separation from the irrelgious world. Needless to say, this is not a fashionable subject (has it ever been?) in contemporary Catholicism and is seldom spoken about, if indeed ever, in homilies or in the popular Catholic media. Thus rather than providing a robust Catholic counter-culture, many Catholics have succumbed and capitulated to the secular drift with a degree of weakness and nervelessness unmatched in the history of the Church. The sad fact is that many modern Catholics, especially among the youth, no longer think with an authentic Catholic mind and so it is hardly surprising that they take as their benchmark whatever the world thinks acceptable and whatever is the current trend in secular society, even if that is at variance with the consistent teaching of the Church or the whole tenor of Catholic tradition.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

PS A warm welcome to the world of CAF, dear friend.

Thanks for the kind words and warm welcome. Have a great day.

Pax.

 

[Della]

The idea of “not judging others” has come up a lot in this thread and others. My wife and I were just discussing a sermon last night in which the priest discussed the topic. There are two elements- judging objective sinfulness and subjective sinfulness. We may and should do the former, we may not do the latter.

If I see a man break into the vault at the bank and drive away with the money, I can objectively judge that he has commited a theft. I can’t judge the state of his heart. Only God can.

If I see a man in flip flops, cut off shorts, and a t-shirt or a woman in a cocktail dress at Mass, I can objectively judge that they are dressed imodestly. I can not judge the state of their hearts.

Pax.

I wouldn’t call flip-flops and cut off shorts immodest but rather inappropriate for Mass. Such attire would be perfectly fine for a picnic, though. As for the cocktail dress, it would be overly dressy for the occasion, but not necessarily immodest. Not all cocktail dresses are revealing. I do know what you are saying. And, you are right that we cannot judge others’ hearts by mere appearances.

Many people these days simply do not know how to dress for the right occasion because the subject is no longer taught at home, at church, or in the classroom, as it was when I was a girl. Our society has adopted an “anything goes” sensibility meant to engender simplicity and to be welcoming to all, but as with any virtue the world mimics, it devolves into indifferentism disguised as “tolerance” that leads to inappropriate dress for the occasion.

 

[Portrait]

Women in the ancient world/Bible times even wore jewelry and some form of cosmetics available. Today’s women do the same thing, but we have many more choices now.

I do wear some make up and a few pieces of jewelry like a necklace & some earrings maybe a bracelet and/or a ring for work. Same for Mass attendance. I respect the decisions of those who do wear no makeup and/or jewelry like my mother who only wears her wedding/engagement rings and a cross necklace, and no make up at all.

Dear MissRose73,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It is really a question of exercising temperance rather than total abstinence and thus there is nothing necessarily improper in the care of the hair and the moderate use of make up and jewelry. As with yourself, my dear wife uses some make up (foundation applied sparingly) but very little in the way of jewelry, apart from cross and chain and matrimony rings.

What is important is that Catholic women should not excessively regard or be pre-occupied with embellishing their bodies, but rather should be concerned primarily with the beauty of a pious life, fruitful in good works. The beauty of the heart, soul and mind is clearly of more value in the sight of God (I Pet. 3: 3-4) and it is far better to be known for one’s reverent and chaste behaviour, than to be known for wanting to impress people with the ornaments of outward beauty, which by the very nature of things are only temporary because they pertain to this world (see I Cor. 7: 31). It is because our pagan neighbours have no higher expectation that they use the world to the full, as it were, but the Catholic’s hope transcends the godless world and so he quite rightly looks upon all temporal things with a sense of spiritual detachment. Domestic life with its joys and griefs, the world of work with its schedules and many stresses and the general use of the world, must all be carried on as if one were under notice to quit and to be ready to cast loose from the shores of time at any moment. Given that the world is passing away, it surely makes very little sense for a Catholic to set his heart upon it and to be unduly engrossed in its vanities and pleasures. On the contrary, he should live daily as one who desires “a better country, that is, a heavenly one” (Heb. 11: 16), as all the worthy saints have done in times past.

It was, I think, Bengel who spoke of “the labour bestowed on dress which consumes much time” and that is indeed an insightful remark, is it not? An undue interest in self adornment is surely indicatory that the individual who so indulges in it and has no greater or nobler things to occupy their mind and who’s affections are plainly very earthbound. As I said above, it all boils down to a matter of godly temperance as regards the use of jewelry and cosmetics. An inordinate and unseemly use of jewelry/make-up does nothing to add to the dignity of a women but merely serves to reveal to all the sordidness of her worldly mind.

Not unlike our Western world today, Christianity entered a world of decadence and luxury, hence St. Peter’s plea for the graces which adorn the heart, namely modesty, humility and chastity (I Pet. 3: 3-4). Things have actually changed very little as far as sinful dispositions are concerned, thus as with women in the first century, modern Catholic women are likewise sorely tempted nowadays to senseless extravagence with respect to bodily embellishments and the wearing of unseemly apparel. However, they must, as befits women professing religion, refrain from this ungodly excess and eshew secular pressure to conform to a worldly outlook upon life, remembering that God prefers to see beauty of character which is unfading, rather than time and energy expended on personal adornment. St. Peter depreciates the vanities of pagan society and instead extolls the virtue of true Christian womanhood and so ought we to if we claim to have our affections set upon heavenly things (Col. 3: 2). Let us get our priorities right and aim to be models of virtue and temperance to our non-Christian friends and family, showing that we live our lives by different and more higher standards.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[TrueLight]

Since no one here would want to draw undue attention to herself or do things just to please others, there’s no problem at all. I’m sure Mary dressed and acted like any other Jewish woman of her day, wearing her dowry head piece with its gold coins, for example. No doubt she wore black when Joseph died like any other widow. She wasn’t afraid to speak up, though. She was no mouse who never said or did anything. She lived life fully, trusting in God every step of the way. I’m sure us doing the same is more important to her than whether or not we wear blush.

Why do people bring up the BVM as an example of modesty? Are there any pictures of her when she lived her life on this earth?

How do we know she didn’t apply a little rouge to her cheeks or that she didn’t like pretty clothes?

 

[Della]

Why do people bring up the BVM as an example of modesty?

Because they think Mary would side with their priggish notions of modesty, which is not modesty but a form of spiritual pride.

Are there any pictures of her when she lived her life on this earth?

No. The closest might be the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe since Mary was most certainly like most Jewish women of her day–small in stature, dark-eyed and dark-haired. Some seers have had apparitions of her with blue eyes, which is also possible, but we really don’t know.

How do we know she didn’t apply a little rouge to her cheeks or that she didn’t like pretty clothes?

She wouldn’t have used make up because women of her social class didn’t. As for pretty clothes, she no doubt wore the same sorts of clothes any other young woman of her day wore. They embriodered their clothes, but they would have been robes not dresses like we wear.

 

[Stornoway]

I was thinking about starting a new post for this and depending on what people think, I probably will for the benefit of those wondering the same thing in the future. Would a guy going to the gym be an act of vanity ? And I’m not meaning going to the gym to go on the treadmill etc but going to the gym to pump iron and work the guns etc ?

 

[RavenRaw]

Vanity is awesome =D I wear makeup…dye my hair…paint my nails…take pictures of myself…and i’m a boy xD

 

[Della]

I was thinking about starting a new post for this and depending on what people think, I probably will for the benefit of those wondering the same thing in the future. Would a guy going to the gym be an act of vanity ? And I’m not meaning going to the gym to go on the treadmill etc but going to the gym to pump iron and work the guns etc ?

As in the case of make up, jewelry, fancy clothes, it depends on one’s motives/reasons. If he is in a muscle man competition or wants to keep in good health, etc. that’d be fine. If he only wants to be admired and made much of, probably not. Still, as in all such things, we need to use prudential judgment informed by the teachings of the Church.

 

[BlsdBGd]

I don’t understand why people think they are incomplete unless they wear makeup and/or jewelry, or tatoos. Some won’t even go outside unless they put junk on their face, even reapplying it throughout the day. Can you imagine the Virgin Mary (who is the most beautiful woman Gd ever created) wasting time in front of a mirror putting makeup on! On the other hand, perhaps people have been severely scarred from accidents or fire and feel they will be ostracized if they appear in public as they are. After all, our society is very superficial. So for some, makeup may help them to feel more accepted. As for tatoos - my dads arm was tatood by the nazis. Why people tatoo themselves is beyond me. Especially today, girls and women, guys destroy significant portions of their bodies with excessive, ugly tatoos. They need deliverance. Sadly, when they come to their senses and realize they shouldn`t have put them there in the first place, how do they get rid of them!

 

[Della]

I don’t understand why people think they are incomplete unless they wear makeup and/or jewelry, or tatoos. Some won’t even go outside unless they put junk on their face, even reapplying it throughout the day.

If a religious person puts on make up it’s usually because they are trying to present themselves in the best way they can. I wear make up so I won’t look tired or ill. Trust me, without it that’s exactly how I look no matter how good I feel or happy I am. Or it is expected of them in the profession they have chosen. Non-religious persons may have very different reasons but they don’t read threads on religious forums.

Can you imagine the Virgin Mary (who is the most beautiful woman Gd ever created) wasting time in front of a mirror putting makeup on!

Actually, if it had been a part of her culture–the kind of thing every woman of her time did, then yes, I could see her doing it and having no more qualms about it than a modern woman choosing which outfit is most appropriate for the occasion. Mary lived in within a different time and culture. To judge such things by her is to set up an unfair example for our times and culture. We should all be modest and humble as she was, but neither of those require that we be drab or mousey.

On the other hand, perhaps people have been severely scarred from accidents or fire and feel they will be ostracized if they appear in public as they are. After all, our society is very superficial. So for some, makeup may help them to feel more accepted.

Make up is a mere tool. Like any other tool it can be a help or it can damage. It all depends on how it is used. This is why the Church makes no judgment about these things except to urge modesty. And modesty deals with the state of one’s soul not merely what one wears or eats or drives or any other mere outward thing.

As for tatoos - my dads arm was tatood by the nazis. Why people tatoo themselves is beyond me. Especially today, girls and women, guys destroy significant portions of their bodies with excessive, ugly tatoos. They need deliverance. Sadly, when they come to their senses and realize they shouldn`t have put them there in the first place, how do they get rid of them!

Considering your poor father’s experience, I can understand your aversion to tattoos. But, tattoos are also neutral things. They can be overdone, and some definitely overdo them. Once again, though most religious people won’t overdo this any more than they would overdo make up or jewelry, so you’re preaching to the choir. As to getting rid of them, there are procedures and products, but it is hard to do, as I understand it–I don’t have any. In all these things each person has to use prudential judgment based on the teachings of the Church. We need do not more than that, but no less, either.

 

[JoArtist]

If a religious person puts on make up it’s usually because they are trying to present themselves in the best way they can. I wear make up so I won’t look tired or ill. Trust me, without it that’s exactly how I look no matter how good I feel or happy I am. Or it is expected of them in the profession they have chosen. Non-religious persons may have very different reasons but they don’t read threads on religious forums.

Actually, if it had been a part of her culture–the kind of thing every woman of her time did, then yes, I could see her doing it and having no more qualms about it than a modern woman choosing which outfit is most appropriate for the occasion. Mary lived in within a different time and culture. To judge such things by her is to set up an unfair example for our times and culture. We should all be modest and humble as she was, but neither of those require that we be drab or mousey.

Make up is a mere tool. Like any other tool it can be a help or it can damage. It all depends on how it is used. This is why the Church makes no judgment about these things except to urge modesty. And modesty deals with the state of one’s soul not merely what one wears or eats or drives or any other mere outward thing.

Considering your poor father’s experience, I can understand your aversion to tattoos. But, tattoos are also neutral things. They can be overdone, and some definitely overdo them. Once again, though most religious people won’t overdo this any more than they would overdo make up or jewelry, so you’re preaching to the choir. As to getting rid of them, there are procedures and products, but it is hard to do, as I understand it–I don’t have any. In all these things each person has to use prudential judgment based on the teachings of the Church. We need do not more than that, but no less, either.

Amen!

 

[BlsdBGd]

If a woman can’t go out the door without putting junk on her face, then she has a problem. For most women, there is no need to waste money or time on makeup. Instead of wasting money on lipstick, eyeliner, blush, mascara and whatever other layers of stuff you choose to hide under, offer that money on masses for the souls in purgatory.

 

[JoArtist]

If a woman can’t go out the door without putting junk on her face, then she has a problem. For most women, there is no need to waste money or time on makeup. Instead of wasting money on lipstick, eyeliner, blush, mascara and whatever other layers of stuff you choose to hide under, offer that money on masses for the souls in purgatory.

Wow… very judgmental and uncharitable. By your expectations, no one should be able to buy formal clothing (which is expensive), heck they should only be able to wear sack cloth. All that “wasted” money on vanity that could be used to offer money on masses for souls in purgatory.

I for one wear make-up, but have no problem going out without it. It is like combing my hair or picking out the outfit for the next day. There is nothing wrong with trying to look nice and put together. I don’t really think many people wear lipstick anymore… at least in Los Angeles they don’t. Unless they are old. Lip gloss is what people tend to wear.

 

[michellestorey]

I don’t understand why people think they are incomplete unless they wear makeup and/or jewelry, or tatoos. Some won’t even go outside unless they put junk on their face, even reapplying it throughout the day. Can you imagine the Virgin Mary (who is the most beautiful woman Gd ever created) wasting time in front of a mirror putting makeup on! On the other hand, perhaps people have been severely scarred from accidents or fire and feel they will be ostracized if they appear in public as they are. After all, our society is very superficial. So for some, makeup may help them to feel more accepted. As for tatoos - my dads arm was tatood by the nazis. Why people tatoo themselves is beyond me. Especially today, girls and women, guys destroy significant portions of their bodies with excessive, ugly tatoos. They need deliverance. Sadly, when they come to their senses and realize they shouldn`t have put them there in the first place, how do they get rid of them!

So maybe some people could have tattoo’s removed. I can’t. I have 35% of my body tattooed, are you going to judge me as crass? Going to Hell? Every drop of this ink entered my body as a devoted atheist. I found God’s love, and if he can love and accept me covered with tattoos WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE? Yes, looking back most of my life would have been vastly different. But it’s not, and it’s my cross to bear to live with what I’ve done. Leave the judgements to Him that they belong to.

 

[Della]

If a woman can’t go out the door without putting junk on her face, then she has a problem. For most women, there is no need to waste money or time on makeup. Instead of wasting money on lipstick, eyeliner, blush, mascara and whatever other layers of stuff you choose to hide under, offer that money on masses for the souls in purgatory.

Be careful of spiritual pride. And of demanding what God and the Church does not. If it were a terrible thing for a woman to buy and wear make up, jewelry, nice clothes the Church would certainly say so. By having such a hard attitude you are being more Catholic than the Church. If we must find fault let us find it first in ourselves, as Jesus told us to.

Don’t worry about what others do, and don’t judge their hearts (which is strictly up to the Holy Spirit). If you don’t wish to wear make up or jewelry, etc. fine. No one is putting a gun to your back and making you.

We can’t demand others do as we feel best for ourselves or we will end up worse than they by hardening our heart to others instead of loving them and seeing others as better than ourselves, which St. Paul enjoined us to do.