Jewish and RCIA

[jmcrae]

FYI- During the first five hundred years or so of the history of the Roman Catholic Church (and still today in the Christian churches of the East), it was always the case that the sacraments of Christian initiation were celebrated in an invariable sequence: Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist. And it was almost always the case that all three sacraments were celebrated together at the same time, even with infants.
ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ordsacinit.HTM

other interesting topics covered in cited reference

This is the same order as in RCIA. What is your point?

 

[danlaupat]

I was Jewish, started RCIA with my parish priest in November 2006, and received the sacraments at Easter Vigil 2007–in less than 6 months. When I entered RCIA, we initially thought I would wait until Easter 2008, but Father decided I was ready in 2007, and I agreed. I don’t think being Jewish has anything to do with the length of time one needs for discernment and preparation, except that a Jew would not be baptized. I had studied and discerned on my own for quite a while before entering RCIA. An advantage for me was that I had private “lessons” because our parish is very small and I was the only catechumen at Easter Vigil, and that I met with the priest instead of attending a laity-led program. My point is that it was very personalized and intensive for me.

 

[jmcrae]

I was Jewish, started RCIA with my parish priest in November 2006, and received the sacraments at Easter Vigil 2007–in less than 6 months. When I entered RCIA, we initially thought I would wait until Easter 2008, but Father decided I was ready in 2007, and I agreed. I don’t think being Jewish has anything to do with the length of time one needs for discernment and preparation, except that a Jew would not be baptized. I had studied and discerned on my own for quite a while before entering RCIA. An advantage for me was that I had private “lessons” because our parish is very small and I was the only catechumen at Easter Vigil, and that I met with the priest instead of attending a laity-led program. My point is that it was very personalized and intensive for me.

This fits, because you were already at least somewhat catechized by the time you started RCIA.

The 52 Sundays of Catechesis is for those unbaptized persons who have never done any serious studying at all, yet, before starting RCIA. (Example: someone who has emotional reasons for wanting to become Catholic, but who has a very busy life and hasn’t had a chance to sit down and do any reading on the subject, yet.)

I am willing to bet that you had been studying for the larger portion of a year before you were formally accepted into RCIA, which would have been why you could get through it in under six months.

 

[danlaupat]

This fits, because you were already at least somewhat catechized by the time you started RCIA.

The 52 Sundays of Catechesis is for those unbaptized persons who have never done any serious studying at all, yet, before starting RCIA. (Example: someone who has emotional reasons for wanting to become Catholic, but who has a very busy life and hasn’t had a chance to sit down and do any reading on the subject, yet.)

I am willing to bet that you had been studying for the larger portion of a year before you were formally accepted into RCIA, which would have been why you could get through it in under six months.

Yes, I was essentially “self-cathechized” if that is even a real term. I was attending Mass on my own and reading a lot before I even called the priest re: RCIA. I think if I had gone to a larger parish I might have been made to wait until Easter 2008, but the smaller parish atmosphere allowed for more flexibility, I assume.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I was essentially “self-cathechized” if that is even a real term. I was attending Mass on my own and reading a lot before I even called the priest re: RCIA. I think if I had gone to a larger parish I might have been made to wait until Easter 2008, but the smaller parish atmosphere allowed for more flexibility, I assume.

Actually, a lot depends on the temperment of the RCIA team itself and on how involved the pastor is, regardless of the size of the parish. Less involvement from the pastor means that the team is “flying blind” a lot of the time, so they tend to err on the side of caution - and if they tend towards legalism to start with, then things just end up taking longer while they dot their "i"s and cross their "t"s.

 

[puzzleannie]

Are you formiliar with Pope [St.] Gregory’s [Ist] writing on this subject?

Did VII leave up to the local authority?

• just respectfully asking

No I am familiar with the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults published by with and for the universal Church, as adapted for use in the United States by the US Bishops. No “V2” did not leave it up to local authority, she recommended the revision of the process, which resulted in the RCIA as we have it now. The Rites leave plenty of room for local variation to meet needs in different times and places.

what BroSFO and I intend to convey, I think, that for a given individual the process may take longer, because of time required for them in many circumstances–resolving a marriage issue such as annulment, difficulty involving other family issues, difficulty in understanding and accepting certain doctrines. The process itself has defined stages, and each diocese and parish guides candidates through those stages in a well-thought out process and time sequence governed by the Rites themselves. Ideally pastoral care will assure that the unique needs of each individual are respected and that while there is a minimum time frame and process of conversion required, there is not really a maximum.

 

[danlaupat]

Actually, a lot depends on the temperment of the RCIA team itself and on how involved the pastor is, regardless of the size of the parish. Less involvement from the pastor means that the team is “flying blind” a lot of the time, so they tend to err on the side of caution - and if they tend towards legalism to start with, then things just end up taking longer while they dot their "i"s and cross their "t"s.

Ah, good old legalism. From what I’ve heard from others that have gone through RCIA, I know that can sometimes pose a problem. I would find that frustrating because I have an independent, self-directed temperment (which can also be a bad thing ).

Also, I find it interesting that a pastor would not always be substantially involved in RCIA.

 

[quiet52]

Ah, good old legalism. From what I’ve heard from others that have gone through RCIA, I know that can sometimes pose a problem. I would find that frustrating because I have an independent, self-directed temperment (which can also be a bad thing ).

Also, I find it interesting that a pastor would not always be substantially involved in RCIA.

If any catechumen or candidate with an independent, self-directed temperament is rejecting a teaching of the Church, then he or she is not yet ready to be received into the Church. This isn’t legalism. This is charity. How can someone who isn’t ready to share in unity of faith think he’s ready for Holy Communion?

 

[danlaupat]

If any catechumen or candidate with an independent, self-directed temperament is rejecting a teaching of the Church, then he or she is not yet ready to be received into the Church. This isn’t legalism. This is charity. How can someone who isn’t ready to share in unity of faith think he’s ready for Holy Communion?

??I’m not sure who you are referring to here re: rejecting a teaching of the church. Certainly anyone who does not understand and/or accept the teachings of the Church is not ready to convert, regardless of their temperment or how long or short a time they stayed in RCIA.

Legalism, to me, is sticking to a formula because someone says you have to stick to it, rather than looking at the circumstances and maintaining some flexibility if necessary.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

??I’m not sure who you are referring to here re: rejecting a teaching of the church. Certainly anyone who does not understand and/or accept the teachings of the Church is not ready to convert, regardless of their temperment or how long or short a time they stayed in RCIA.

Legalism, to me, is sticking to a formula because someone says you have to stick to it, rather than looking at the circumstances and maintaining some flexibility if necessary.

FYI The terms are licit and valid. If the priest errors whether intentional or accidental the action is valid ( objective is achieved ). If the Priest errors intentionally his action is illicit, and thus he could receive repercussion. The illicit action does not change the validity of the ceremony. So if rules are broken during a baptism, rites, sacrament, etc. etc. the ceremony achieves the desired result. I care about validity and leave licit issues to the ordained.