Jewish beliefs..

[Charlotte408]

Why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah?

And if, they believe in the OT, (like Muslims correct? They are always quoting from OT as well) do they still do all the animal sacrifices and stuff???

I know that SOUNDS crazy, I mean, I’ve never seen a Jew with a cow on an altar or anything, but if they don’t believe in Christ, and his NEW covenant, than wouldn’t they still adhere themselves to the old covenant? In the OT, didn’t God say to ‘kill homosexuals’? So do they believe in that too?

I am so sorry, for my ignorance, I totally don’t mean to offend any Jewish people-

 

[Barbkw]

They don’t offer animal sacrifices because they no longer have control of the Holy of Holies.

Where is the Holy of Holies?

The Romans tore down the Temple Mount and the Holy of Holies in 70 A.D., (as Jesus foretold the evening before His death) killing millions of Jews, stealing their temple money, and marching 100,000 Jewish slaves (with the golden Menorah) to Rome.

Arch of Titus in Rome:

google.com/search?q=arch+of+titus+&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

see: gojerusalem.com/article_554/Emperor-Titus-The-Man-Who-Destroyed-the-Temple

Years back, after the Crusades, Muslims built various structures over the area, today the Dome of the Rock covers the Holy of Holies on the Temple Mount.

templemountfaithful.org/Articles/temple-location.htm

 

[Maranatha]

For the old-old timers on the board, I wish “still small voice” was here to answer your question. He (?) is a very knowledgeable practicing Jew (I think from Israel). He was always charitable and I loved reading all his posts. I was amazed at the similarities between conservative Judaism and Catholicism.I think you can still look them up with the search.

My best answer comes from Jewish philosophy. God is infinite and can not take finite form. It’s like saying a square can be a circle. From the Jewish perspective, it does not limit God to say that he can not become a finite man, it’s just nonsensical.

 

[DavidFilmer]

They don’t offer animal sacrifices because they no longer have control of the Holy of Holies.

Yeah, I’ve heard that also - that sacrifice could only be done at the Temple of Jerusalem.

But is that true? The Exodus happened about 500 years before Solomon’s Temple - so for a time there was no temple but lots of altars (each of the landed tribes had an altar). And there were about 70 years between the destruction of the Temple of Solomon and the construction of the Temple of Herod - were there no sacrifices during this time?

Abraham built an altar on-the-spot after God spared Isaac.

Where did this idea of Temple-only sacrifice come from?

 

[Charlotte408]

They don’t offer animal sacrifices because they no longer have control of the Holy of Holies.

Where is the Holy of Holies?

The Romans tore down the Temple Mount and the Holy of Holies in 70 A.D., (as Jesus foretold the evening before His death) killing millions of Jews, stealing their temple money, and marching 100,000 Jewish slaves (with the golden Menorah) to Rome.

Arch of Titus in Rome:

google.com/search?q=arch+of+titus+&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

see: gojerusalem.com/article_554/Emperor-Titus-The-Man-Who-Destroyed-the-Temple

Years back, after the Crusades, Muslims built various structures over the area, today the Dome of the Rock covers the Holy of Holies on the Temple Mount.

templemountfaithful.org/Articles/temple-location.htm

When you say ‘Romans’ do you mean Romans as in the Romans that killed Jesus? Because I thought they were okay with the Jews, I mean they crucified Jesus because they had asked them to right? Or do you mean ‘Roman Catholics’? Like on a crusade, did this, and then after Muslims came and built over the area?

I’m gonna follow your links and sorry if they answer any of the questions I just asked.

 

[Third_Day]

When you say ‘Romans’ do you mean Romans as in the Romans that killed Jesus? Because I thought they were okay with the Jews, I mean they crucified Jesus because they had asked them to right? Or do you mean ‘Roman Catholics’? Like on a crusade, did this, and then after Muslims came and built over the area?

I’m gonna follow your links and sorry if they answer any of the questions I just asked.

Read the account of the destruction of Jerusalem by an eyewitness, Josephus.

ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-pref.htm

 

[Nooj]

Where did this idea of Temple-only sacrifice come from?

After the Temple was built, of course.

And after it was destroyed, Judaism had to do a rather abrupt about face. They looked back into their long history and saw that there were periods in which Jews couldn’t have come to the Temple (for example, Jews living in the Diaspora). They reasoned therefore that contrition and repentance could be obtained in other ways than sacrifices at the Temple. I’m not sure of the truth of this matter - they may have just built their own little altars and sacrificed there. Although this was prohibited by the priests in Jerusalem, archaeologists have found such local altars around Israel.

 

[neophyte]

At least two reasons. First, the sacrifices have to be done at the temple, which doesn’t exist anymore. Second, if they rebuilt the temple they’d have to sacrifice a red heifer to get the ashes for the necessary purification rituals (Numbers 19). But there are no red heifers today - I understand that there’s a breeding program in search of a line of pure red heifers but so far without success. The heifer has to be completely red, not a single hair of another color.

They’ve always been rare; tradition has it that only nine were sacrificed from the time of Moses through the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and that the tenth one will be prepared by the Messiah.

 

[Kaninchen]

Why don’t Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah?

You might find this Simple To Remember page helpful. For further information on Messiah from a Jewish perspective - there’s Jewish Virtual Library, Judaism 101, and My Jewish Learning.

And if, they believe in the OT, (like Muslims correct? They are always quoting from OT as well) do they still do all the animal sacrifices and stuff???

Here’s Judaism 101 and My Jewish Learning on the sacrificial system.

I know that SOUNDS crazy, I mean, I’ve never seen a Jew with a cow on an altar or anything, but if they don’t believe in Christ, and his NEW covenant, than wouldn’t they still adhere themselves to the old covenant? In the OT, didn’t God say to ‘kill homosexuals’? So do they believe in that too?

It was pretty difficult to get yourself executed, even in biblical times. The way we understand ‘The Law’ is mediated by what we know as ‘Oral Torah’ - you can’t just read Torah (the first five books of what we call the Tanakh and you call the Old Testament) and know exactly what the Jewish position on any aspect of it is - but that’s a whole other matter.

 

[neophyte]

And I notice, Charlotte408, that you claim California as the sunshine state. As a native Floridian, I most strongly protest your hijacking of the nickname of MY state. California is, in fact, the Golden State.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I’ve never seen a Jew with a cow on an altar or anything, but if they don’t believe in Christ, and his NEW covenant, than wouldn’t they still adhere themselves to the old covenant?

As I understand it, the situation of the Jews today is analogous to the situation of a Catholic without access to a priest.

Imagine, if you will, that you are the father in a small Catholic family who have been stranded on a desert island. You have a Bible and the basic tools needed to sustain yourself on the island. But there is no priest, so the only sacrament that can be administered is Baptism. There is no Mass so you would be dispensed from the obligations that go with Mass, just as Jews consider themselves dispensed from the Qorbanot, the sacrificial rites, for lack of a Temple.

So, to obtain forgiveness of sins, you would do as the Jews do today: prayer, contrition, and avoidance of sin. You might pray the Hours out of your Bible and do a Liturgy of the Word in place of the complete Mass every day and at least on Sundays. That is somewhat analogous to the Jewish synagogue services that occur today.

 

[Timothy17]

As I understand it, the situation of the Jews today is analogous to the situation of a Catholic without access to a priest.

Imagine, if you will, that you are the father in a small Catholic family who have been stranded on a desert island. You have a Bible and the basic tools needed to sustain yourself on the island. But there is no priest, so the only sacrament that can be administered is Baptism. There is no Mass so you would be dispensed from the obligations that go with Mass, just as Jews consider themselves dispensed from the Qorbanot, the sacrificial rites, for lack of a Temple.

So, to obtain forgiveness of sins, you would do as the Jews do today: prayer, contrition, and avoidance of sin. You might pray the Hours out of your Bible and do a Liturgy of the Word in place of the complete Mass every day and at least on Sundays. That is somewhat analogous to the Jewish synagogue services that occur today.

Sounds a lot like Protestantism, doesn’t it !

Pax,
Tim

 

[neophyte]

And I notice, Charlotte408, that you claim California as the sunshine state. As a native Floridian, I most strongly protest your hijacking of the nickname of MY state.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Sounds a lot like Protestantism, doesn’t it !

Yes, it does.

But the consequences are not for us to judge.
CCC #847:

This affirmation [no salvation outside of the Church] is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

 

[Timothy17]

To the OP,

The way we understand ‘The Law’ is mediated by what we know as ‘Oral Torah’ - you can’t just read Torah (the first five books of what we call the Tanakh and you call the Old Testament) and know exactly what the Jewish position on any aspect of it is - but that’s a whole other matter.

Which is a lot like the Catholic understanding of the New Covenant (the Gospel, the Law of the Gospel) requiring mediation by the High Priest, who is also the Living Torah, Christ (Messiah, who is Torah-in-persona). When Jews speak of Torah, they see Torah as we do Christ, where we have Christ, they have Torah. Hence we say we cannot properly understand the Gospel, written by the Holy Spirit, without the help, guidance or inspiration of that Holy Spirit, which the Magisterium of the Church does and has always exercized, from generation to generation, until Christ come again.

Many evangelical Christians and what-not wonder where or how Christianity emerged from Judaism, because they cannot reckon any similarities. Their error is i) confusing modern Judaism with the Judaism before 70 A.D., and ii) they are not Catholic, and have no comparable “seat of Moses / Moses’ seat,” or comprehension of a living, teaching, and governing Magisterium, the shadow of which exists even still in modern Judaism, like an empty throne awaiting its rightful King.

Pax !
Tim

 

[1ke]

When you say ‘Romans’ do you mean Romans as in the Romans that killed Jesus?

Yes, those Romans. The Roman Empire. The Emperor Titus to be exact.

Because I thought they were okay with the Jews, I mean they crucified Jesus because they had asked them to right?

Not exactly. The Romans conquered that territory. There were always factions in rebellion, and a large one in the lat 60s AD, resulting in the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Or do you mean ‘Roman Catholics’?

70 AD. The Catholics were a small, persecuted group not a miltary power.

Like on a crusade, did this, and then after Muslims came and built over the area?

No, not in the least.

 

[Kaninchen]

Which is a lot like the Catholic understanding of the New Covenant (the Gospel, the Law of the Gospel) requiring mediation by the High Priest, who is also the Living Torah, Christ (Messiah, who is Torah-in-persona). When Jews speak of Torah, they see Torah as we do Christ, where we have Christ, they have Torah. Hence we say we cannot properly understand the Gospel, written by the Holy Spirit, without the help, guidance or inspiration of that Holy Spirit, which the Magisterium of the Church does and has always exercized, from generation to generation, until Christ come again.

Well, that’s really the case that you see what we see as being what you imagine we are seeing.

Judaism isn’t Christianity minus Jesus and Christianity isn’t Judaism plus Jesus.

The two religions ‘work’ differently.

 

[NHInsider]

Yeah, I’ve heard that also - that sacrifice could only be done at the Temple of Jerusalem.

But is that true? The Exodus happened about 500 years before Solomon’s Temple - so for a time there was no temple but lots of altars (each of the landed tribes had an altar).

Are you sure about that? Leviticus is pretty clear that sacrifice is only to be offered on the altar in the Tent of Meeting, and the building of a memorial altar by the tribes east of the Jordan caused a crisis until they were able to persuade the others that they did not intend it as a place of sacrifice. (See Joshua 22)

And there were about 70 years between the destruction of the Temple of Solomon and the construction of the Temple of Herod - were there no sacrifices during this time?

There was no sacrifice during the Exile, no. Also after the descration of the Altar by the Greeks, until it could be rebuilt and reconsecrated.

Abraham built an altar on-the-spot after God spared Isaac.

Actually Abraham built the altar to offer Isaac, and then sacrificed the ram on it. Pre-Mosaic covenant, of course, and so pre-liturgy. And, incidentally, Moriah is supposed to be the same place that Abraham had encountered Melchizedek, and where David built the Temple, and where the Dome stands now.

Where did this idea of Temple-only sacrifice come from?

Sacrifice was offered before the Presence of the Lord which rested on the Ark. Where the Ark was, sacrifice could be offered.

Of course in Herod’s Temple there was no Ark (it having been hidden by Jeremiah at the time of the Exile, and never found), just a stone slab within the Holy of Holies.