Jewish Blood "Libel" True?

[Deusdonat]

The blood libel was used against the Jews to persecute and murder them. Other similar claims had the Jews poisoning Christian wells and spreading the black plague among the Christian population. .

This type of response is called a “straw man” argument. The poster has brought up a number of fallacies and lumped them into the original premise to make it look just as improbable. The topic was not Jews poisoning wells, but the Blood Libel, which the article specifically details.

The truly remarkable thing is that certain modern Christians posted here as if it was an actual possibility which is perhaps indicative in itself.
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Yes, because a JEWISH Professor and rabbinical scholar, Ariel Toaff wrote an entire book on it in which he points to specific evidence and draws conclusions.

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For the record:

Judaisim forbids one human being to kill another…

Maybe your brand of Judaism does. But the Kahanists would disagree with you. You don’t speak for Judaism. As a matter of fact, no one does.

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Judaism lacks the pagan roots of other religions in which blood figures in their rituals.

You don’t seem to know about the roots of Judaism in Europe. The Ashkenazim of Europe interbred with the Pagan Khazars, who eventually converted to Judaism in the 9th century. They encorporated many beleifs and customs into their brand of Judaism, which of course varies drastically from Sephardic Judaism. Do you think the ancient Hebrews wore long coats, black trousers with white socks and furry wide-brimmed animal hats?

The article is citing one Kabbaalistic band of Ashkenazim Jews. Please read the articles on the subject before you comment further.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The statement “Jews can be of any religion” is something completely beyond my ken as a Jew to understand. Perhaps you meant Jews do not have to be religious to be Jewish.

My reference to the blood libel was that the nonJews who made it up were totally without knowledge as to Judaisim. It would be similar to referring to a Jehovah Witness getting a blood transfusion.

It means a Jew can be a Hindu or atheist and still be a Jew, once a Jew always a Jew.

Have you ever considered that the rumor started because of mezizah, the circumcision ritual in Judaism of sucking blood from the wound? To most Gentiles that’s an odd and disturbing practice still going on infrequently today.

 

[Kaninchen]

Baby eating, Kabbalah and Khazars!

Is the OP going for the JewWatch/StormFront “Full Set”, one wonders?

 

[Lev23]

Well we might as well be discussing if American Jews or Israeli Jews were behind 9/11. The blood libels were excuses to go out and murder Jews.

Well said. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone started a thread-“Did the Jews cause the black plague?”.

This topic has been spinning it’s tires in the mud since post #1.

What is sad is this “blood libel” is re-enacted on Iranian television and in other forms of media.

 

[Deusdonat]

Baby eating, Kabbalah and Khazars!

Is the OP going for the JewWatch/StormFront “Full Set”, one wonders?

FOA made a legitimate statment about the practice of some Jewish Mohel’s sucking blood from a baby’s circumcised penis, and you respond with that?

So far, the Jewish posters in here have said nothing of substance except “this is just not true. I’m not even going to comment. It’s typical anti-semetic propaganda. I’m really not going to comment on this. Same stuff over and over. I really am not going to comment on this because it’s not worth it.”

We have so far gotten about 20 posts of this, and nothing of substance. Me thinks thou dost protest too much…

 

[Kaninchen]

FOA made a legitimate statment about the practice of some Jewish Mohel’s sucking blood from a baby’s circumcised penis, and you respond with that?

I don’t read his posts, he’s on ‘ignore’.

So far, the Jewish posters in here have said nothing of substance except “this is just not true. I’m not even going to comment. It’s typical anti-semetic propaganda. I’m really not going to comment on this. Same stuff over and over. I really am not going to comment on this because it’s not worth it.”

So far, all you’ve given us has been “somebody might have done something but there’s no evidence”. Meanwhile, you proceed as if there were evidence and require people to deal with the issue seriously.

We have so far gotten about 20 posts of this, and nothing of substance. Me thinks thou dost protest too much…

Baby eating, kabbalah, Khazars . . . if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck . . . .

 

[chosen_people]

This type of response is called a “straw man” argument. The poster has brought up a number of fallacies and lumped them into the original premise to make it look just as improbable. The topic was not Jews poisoning wells, but the Blood Libel, which the article specifically details.

Yes, because a JEWISH Professor and rabbinical scholar, Ariel Toaff wrote an entire book on it in which he points to specific evidence and draws conclusions.

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Maybe your brand of Judaism does. But the Kahanists would disagree with you. You don’t speak for Judaism. As a matter of fact, no one does.

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You don’t seem to know about the roots of Judaism in Europe. The Ashkenazim of Europe interbred with the Pagan Khazars, who eventually converted to Judaism in the 9th century. They encorporated many beleifs and customs into their brand of Judaism, which of course varies drastically from Sephardic Judaism. Do you think the ancient Hebrews wore long coats, black trousers with white socks and furry wide-brimmed animal hats?

The article is citing one Kabbaalistic band of Ashkenazim Jews. Please read the articles on the subject before you comment further.

The claim that ashkenazy Jews are in fact merely the Turkish tribe of the Khazars is of course totally false. With today’s ability of genetic testing it is easy to discover and has been proven that the Jews make up a distinct genetic grouping which is traced back to the middle east. The distinct genetic markers are shared by all Jews whether they lived in the diaspora in Europe or in North Africa and the Middle East. The Jewish line of Cohanim can be traced genetically back thousands of years to a single source.

There are minor not drastic differences between Ashkenazy and Sephardic Judaisim such as minor textual differences and liberalization of customs among the Sephardic community such as the fact that the Sephardic community does not restict the eating of legumes on Passover. There are no intrinsic differences in beliefs and of course Judaisim did not at any stage incorporate pagan beliefs.

European Hassidic clothes are indeed different. They are also different from the way I dress. They are however not now or ever were traditional Khazar clothes.

You may be interested in knowing that Toaff has withdrawn his book from publication.

It is indeed a shame that unlike you I “don’t seem to know about the roots of Judaism in Europe.” or how my “brand” of Judaisim differs so greatly from that of the Sephardic community. Both my former professors at the Hebrew University as well as my Sephardic wife will no doubt be greatly disappointed in me.

I would however be interested in knowing from what “factual” website you are receiving your information about Jews.

 

[Valke2]

FOA made a legitimate statment about the practice of some Jewish Mohel’s sucking blood from a baby’s circumcised penis, and you respond with that?

So far, the Jewish posters in here have said nothing of substance except “this is just not true. I’m not even going to comment. It’s typical anti-semetic propaganda. I’m really not going to comment on this. Same stuff over and over. I really am not going to comment on this because it’s not worth it.”

We have so far gotten about 20 posts of this, and nothing of substance. Me thinks thou dost protest too much…

I’ve given you as much substance as possible, since we are discussing a lie that was made up to whip up hatred against Jews. I’ve quoted the author himself, the fact that he pulled the book out a week after publication, that it was only released in Italian and no one here claims to actually have read it, and that both Christian and Jewish scholars have condemned the notion that the blood libel was based on real acts by any jews.

YOu just don’t want to take that as substance. No surprise.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Mezizah is a Jewish ritual that involves blood of infants, and it has caused fatal herpes in babies in just the past years, so dollars to donuts it has something to do with blood libel. Maybe not intentionally malicious or as widespread as reported, but I see some point of truth in it.

 

[Valke2]

Mezizah is a Jewish ritual that involves blood of infants, and it has caused fatal herpes in babies in just the past years, so dollars to donuts it has something to do with blood libel. Maybe not intentionally malicious or as widespread as reported, but I see some point of truth in it.

first of all, there’s no “maybe” about it. the rituals in circumcision are not malicious. I’ve never seen any evidence whatsoever that any of the rituals of circumcision are tied to the blood libel. And let’s keep in mind what the word “libel” means. we are starting out, and by we I mean all scholars and clergy that address this issue, with the premises that it was a made up lie. So it is on people like Deu (whatever his name is) and you to support the spurious claim that the blood libel was based on actions taken by some Jews. If there is any truth to it, it is up to you to set it forth. It is not up to me or anyone else to proof it false. That’s already been done.

And since I don’t have an interest in arguing over nonsense like this, I’m going to unscribe from this thread. You have fun.

 

[Deusdonat]

I’ve given you as much substance as possible, since we are discussing a lie that was made up to whip up hatred against Jews. I’ve quoted the author himself, the fact that he pulled the book out a week after publication, that it was only released in Italian and no one here claims to actually have read it, and that both Christian and Jewish scholars have condemned the notion that the blood libel was based on real acts by any jews.

No, the fact that the author pulled the book speaks more to the power of the Jewish media, lobby and economic interests than whether or not it has merrit or not. The University backed, funded and supported his book after it came out. It was only after the greater accademic world got wind of it that they were forced to withdraw it. Mainily by people like you who refuse to even read what he has to say about it.

 

[chosen_people]

Mezizah is a Jewish ritual that involves blood of infants, and it has caused fatal herpes in babies in just the past years, so dollars to donuts it has something to do with blood libel. Maybe not intentionally malicious or as widespread as reported, but I see some point of truth in it.

The blood libel was a justification for the persecution and murder of Jews. It involved accusing Jews of murdering little gentile children. Gentiles wouldn’t care if Jews were causing fatal injuries in circumcision of Jewish infants and couldn’t use that as an excuse for killing Jews. Sorry, no dollars and no donuts.

 

[Deusdonat]

Gentiles wouldn’t care if Jews were causing fatal injuries in circumcision of Jewish infants and couldn’t use that as an excuse for killing Jews. Sorry, no dollars and no donuts.

You couldn’t be more wrong. Christians have always cared for and looked after Jewish children. Christians do not see Jews as a separate race from humanity. In Christian theology, a Jew who converts to Christianity is no longer a Jew. And FYI, the Romans even banned infant circumcision because they saw the practice as barbaric. So, when you can gross out the Romans, that’s really saying something.

As I have stated previously, Christians are one of the only religious groups in the world who absolutely DO care about the wellbeing of humanity, and not just their own. Buddhists are like this too and both groups have charities that reach out to all segments regardless of religion. I’m unaware of any others that do. I’ve never heard about Jewish groups expressing the welfare of non-Jews, children or otherwise.

 

[Kaninchen]

Baby eating, kabbalah, Khazars and now lack of charity. The litany continues.

 

[chosen_people]

You couldn’t be more wrong. Christians have always cared for and looked after Jewish children. Christians do not see Jews as a separate race from humanity. In Christian theology, a Jew who converts to Christianity is no longer a Jew. And FYI, the Romans even banned infant circumcision because they saw the practice as barbaric. So, when you can gross out the Romans, that’s really saying something.

As I have stated previously, Christians are one of the only religious groups in the world who absolutely DO care about the wellbeing of humanity, and not just their own. Buddhists are like this too and both groups have charities that reach out to all segments regardless of religion. I’m unaware of any others that do. I’ve never heard about Jewish groups expressing the welfare of non-Jews, children or otherwise.

Just to summarize what you wrote:

The Romans did not ban circumcision as a punishment to the rebellious Jews and based on their paganistic beliefs

Jews, unlike Christians, do not care about anyone other than themselves

Christians have never persecuted Jews especially they have always looked out for the welfare of Jewish children

Christians are very liberal towards Jews and when a Jew converts to Christianity they are even able to disregard the fact that he was once a Jew

Jews are ]not mass givers to non Jewish causes

"Indeed, there is evidence that Jewish philanthropists are more likely to make their largest gifts to non-Jewish philanthropies (Tobin and Karp 2002). Mega-gifts of $10 million, $50 million, $100 million, or even more from Jews are not uncommon to non-Jewish philanthropies. These gifts are not necessarily paid out in a one-year period, but may be paid over a five- or ten-year period or longer. Nevertheless, non-Jewish causes are attracting the largest Jewish donor gifts. Individual Jewish philanthropists make annual gifts of substantial amounts to Jewish philanthropies, but it is less common to see mega-gifts given to the Jewish community. Universities, symphonies, hospitals, and museums are capturing the largest gifts from Jewish donors. "
learningtogive.org/religiousinstructors/phil_in_america/jewish_philanthropy.asp

 

[FaithofAbraham]

The blood libel was a justification for the persecution and murder of Jews. It involved accusing Jews of murdering little gentile children. Gentiles wouldn’t care if Jews were causing fatal injuries in circumcision of Jewish infants and couldn’t use that as an excuse for killing Jews. Sorry, no dollars and no donuts.

I disagree, it is a ritual involving blood of babies that has been known to result in death, that really is the only logical source for those rumors.

Of course it probably wasn’t intentional even in the 2005 case but Christians may not have known that, maybe they just heard babies died and blood was used and the story took on a life of its own.

Heck it’s better than saying Jews really did it intentionally or that Christians are just evil and make up lies out of the blue – as a simple misunderstanding it clears both somewhat of wrongdoing. Try to be objective about it.

 

[Deusdonat]

I disagree, it is a ritual involving blood of babies that has been known to result in death, that really is the only logical source for those rumors.

While this is certainly one hypothesis, it is not shared by the author of the book, who as I stated, attributes these occurences to actual practices of rogue kabaalistic sects of Ashkenazi Judaism.

 

[Deusdonat]

The Romans did not ban circumcision as a punishment to the rebellious Jews and based on their paganistic beliefs

Yes, the Romans DID ban Jewish infant circumcision. You need to study more history if you are going to comment on the subject. In 135 AD the Roman Governors banned the practice of infant circumcision.

Jews, unlike Christians, do not care about anyone other than themselves

I certainly didn’t say that. During the civil rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s secular Jews were at the forefront of the struggle. But what many don’t know about the quote from the Talmud Sanhedrin 37a so popularized in Schindler’s list actually goes, “whoever preserves a single soul of Israel (a Jew) saves the world”.

Christians have never persecuted Jews especially they have always looked out for the welfare of Jewish children

There has absolutely been abuses and persecution of Jews by Christians. Not in dispute. But guess what, up untill the 14th century when the last Jewish kingdom in Ethiopia was absorbed into the empire, Jewish groups had also sporadically been persecuting Christians. Betcha never heard of that side of history. But regarding children, like it or hate it, the church has always sought and welcomed Jewish children to be raised as Christians. The numbers of Jewish children hidden during WW II says it all.

Jews are ]not mass givers to non Jewish causes

I never said that, and you have twisted what I wrote. There are of course many Jewish philanthropists. Many Jewish celebrities give to non-Jewish causes (i.e. Barbara Streisand giving to the Democratic party). What I said was Jewish ORGANIZATIONS (and Jewish religious groups in general) tend to be involved with and interested only in Jewish groups and causes. If you can provide me an example to the contrary I’d be interested.

But really, none of this has to do with the blood libel. And I don’t want to turn this into an “us vs them” thread. I’m sorry it has already gone in that direction so early on. I’d really like to continue on this specific topic.

 

[Kaninchen]

Baby eating, Kabbalah, Khazars, lack of charity, Talmud as hate source, Jews used to persecute Christians in obscure places.

What will be next from the litany?

 

[Zooey]

The blood libel was used against the Jews to persecute and murder them. Other similar claims had the Jews poisoning Christian wells and spreading the black plague among the Christian population.

The truly remarkable thing is that certain modern Christians posted here as if it was an actual possibility which is perhaps indicative in itself. Perhaps we can go on to discuss whether there really were witches in Salem…
I understand the claim was that the blood was used to make the passover matza. Please see Jewish laws of Kashrut as to blood in food.

…since we are on the subject of the disgusting antisemitic blood libel, according to the libel the need for killing a little Christian child was for some “Jewish” rite or for the preperation of matzah for passover. So these imaginary Jewish people who performed these imaginary ritual acts of murder were obviously “religious Jews”.

Well, lucky me, I have just read this entire revolting] thread…
The part I have bolded here jumped out at me, though…and here goes:
I read a book (whose name I don’t recall) by a former FBI profiler some years ago, in which he suggested what I think is a very interesting theory: That serial killers did not begin (as is often stated) with Jack the Ripper; it is just that people still believed in vampires & werewolves, etc…and when a killer struck, they blamed it on these monsters.
So, I am reading this, & realize that everybody is overlooking one very real possibility: that there may have been someone (several someones) who were killing babies in a variety of horrible ways, during the Middles Ages, & somebody decided to blame it on the Jews, instead of on Count Dracula.
Heck, one or a couple of these “somebodies” might even have been Jewish, since there is no monopoly in any religion, for nut cases who murder people for the enjoyment of it. That would be immaterial to my point.

The “blood libel”, as I recall my history, was a specific charge: that Jews killed babies, & put their blood into their food.That is contrary to Jewish law & practice.Its not kosher, period.
Serial killers, however, rarely bother with anybody’s dietary laws. (Think Jeffrey Dahmer).

I have no idea what this guy was thinking, writing this book, but it was iresponsible–and more.
The old song says, “Most of us hate everything that we don’t understand”. In this case, Jews got the short end of the stick.

As far as source material: The number of seiges in the Jewish Scriptures is terrifying…If they went on long enough, people will eat anything. A few even ate their children. Or their elderly aunt–whatever. (Remember the soccer players who crashed in the Andes??).
These people knew seiges; they had lived them. They knew that there were always a few who consumed the dead to stay alive…
Add that to a mad killer, stalking down children, you have all the material you need to invent this poisonous little story…Remember that there were folks hunting for info to give Jews a bad name, and–Hey! Presto!!.. Instant legend.

But we really need to get beyond all this mudslinging; its got way, way out of hand. This whole thread is, IMNSHO, out of hand.