Jewish Catholic (The do's and don't's of the customs)

[gcshapero]

I’m a Catholic of Jewish descent (Ashkenazim).

When asking how a Catholic who is also a Jew should respond to certain customs or celebrations (celebrating Hanukkah, Purim, etc), the differences of responses have been overwhelming.

Religious and Lay alike, theologians, have each given me different answers:

“As Catholics, we are to avoid all Jewish celebrations as Judaism was fulfilled by Christ. To participate in these would be an act of defiance and denial of Christ’s making all things New. We are not rabbinic Jews.”

“It is acceptable to participate in SOME but only for research/educational purposes.”

“It is only OK if you are a Jew – not as a gentile, and in only certain contexts.”

“Yes, it is absolutely OK and should be done to grow closer to God.”

These responses are not unique to liberal vs. traditional Catholics, so this is not a question of which is less traditional or liberal.

I emailed back and forth with the president of the Association of Hebrew Catholics, David Moss, about this. He provided great information, and what he’s said makes sense (It is not doctrinal, the Holy See has said nothing of this).

I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions.

Thank you.

 

[peter26]

Personally, I would say you need to ask the question about each custom - “Is this inconsistent with my Catholic faith?”. There is no problem for instance with keeping Kosher, as long as you understand that this is not a mandatory requirement but something you choose to do, similar to how some people fast on additional days. Hanukkah is a celebration of the success of the Maccabee revolt, which is accepted as a historical event by the Catholic Church, so I don’t see an issue with this (clearly assuming celebrating Hanukkah is not instead of celebrating Christmas). Purim commemorates the exploits of Esther, again the Catholic Church accepts this as historical, though I understand that celebrations of Purim do sometimes get a little out of hand, so obviously it depends how you celebrate the festival. The Passover is in some senses the prefigurement of the Eucharist. For the most part, I would think celebrating Jewish festivals is not an issue. You just need to be clear about where you look for moral guidance.

 

[gcshapero]

This is mostly how I see it as of now.

Celebrations like Hanukkah seem harmless as a Catholic and even a great reflection of the Maccabee victory. The backlash I get is “You’re supposed to be celebrating Advent/Christmas at this point.” though this doesn’t sound like a good response because I never said it was to replace or even overshadow.

Purim was always recognized as more of a historic celebration than a religious one (even though it is also religious). It was usually far more goofy (Jews usually dress up in crazy outfits and feast).

The Seder meal is possibly the biggest hang-up. I genuinely understand the concern of celebrating this one, though I would understand it better as a Catholic if it was celebrated leading up to Maundy Thursday rather than during it or after Easter.

Let’s focus on the Seder Meal to start – would this be a violation to God?

 

[BartholomewB]

I can’t claim to have an authoritative answer, but I don’t know of any serious objections. It’s not the first time we’ve seen a thread on this subject here at CAF. You may find something relevant on this earlier thread, for instance:

Why do catholics ignore Old Test/Hebrew feasts & holidays Apologetics

Hi. Just wondering why we (Catholics) ignore the feasts and festivals God gave to the Hebrews in the old testament? Wouldn’t the whole apostolic tradition thing mandate that we celebrate these too since Jesus and his deciples did? We don’t even give them a nod. Should we?

 

[KD8TZC]

I recall hearing that as Christians and Catholics, we all have Jewish roots… and this I believe. I don’t think there is anything wrong with learning about the Jewish faith. With that said though, I I think you need to look at each custom as @peter26 said as I don’t you could say with certainty on everything on how far you should “participate” vs just observe.

 

[gcshapero]

Indeed, Christianity is the fulfillment of the Old Covenant in Judaism.

The Seder Meal – we already have a Christianized version which is Communion. A good question is why is celebrating the Passover meal acceptable as Christians? How would that not be an act of defiance?

 

[Evan]

The Seder is a celebration of our release from our slavery to the Pharaoh. A prefigurment of our freedom from the slavery of sin.

 

[otjm]

“As Catholics, we are to avoid all Jewish celebrations as Judaism was fulfilled by Christ. To participate in these would be an act of defiance and denial of Christ’s making all things New. We are not rabbinic Jews.”

Maybe yes, maybe no. It is such “fun” to get answers from absolutists who do not consider that the reason behind the celebration may be other than their projection of intent upon the act.

“It is acceptable to participate in SOME but only for research/educational purposes.”

That absolutely fails to understand the background of the actor. “Research”? Really?

It would appear to me that the very bottom line question is “Why do this?”. And that gets down to why are you Catholic, and what do the customs and celebrations mean to you now? Assuming any participation in them does not mean that you feel Catholicism is lacking in something, then the question for you is, why would this be important to you?

Certainly, some Catholics have participated with Jews in Jewish prayer services. While that may not be a regular practice, neither is it a denial of Catholic theology; in fact, it shows respect for those Pope John Paul 2 called “our elder brothers”.

The answers you have received seem to take no consideration of why you might want to participate. And that is the very bottom line question: has this anything to do with questions you might have about the fullness of Catholicism, or any idea that somehow Catholicism is lacking and so you participate/

My strong suspicion is that your answer to those last two questions is “no” - but I leave it to you.

 

[otjm]

A good question is why is celebrating the Passover meal acceptable as Christians? How would that not be an act of defiance?

An act is an act of defiance if one intends to do it to defy something. Some would say that the mere doing of the act defies the Eucharist; they have yet to prove that, as while we consider the Passover meal to be a prefiguring of the Eucharist, it is also an historical anamnesis of the Jewish people fleeing the Pharaoh and journeying to the Promised Land - a point we also remember during Lent/Easter. However, the Eucharist is far more than an anamnesis of the event. The two are separable; the former does not deny the latter, and celebration of the former is not per se a denial of the latter.

 

[gcshapero]

It would appear to me that the very bottom line question is “Why do this?”. And that gets down to why are you Catholic, and what do the customs and celebrations mean to you now? Assuming any participation in them does not mean that you feel Catholicism is lacking in something, then the question for you is, why would this be important to you?

Why I’m a Catholic is because I believe in everything the Church teaches and have committed myself to Jesus through Mary. I love the Eucharist.

Why the Jewish factor is important to me is because I’m Jewish. My roots are important to me. Not only that, but I think my conversion into Catholicism was nurtured by my Judaism. I’m Catholic, but I still consider myself a Jew and would like to hold onto my heritage, share it with my wife, and pass it onto our kids.

The answers you have received seem to take no consideration of why you might want to participate. And that is the very bottom line question: has this anything to do with questions you might have about the fullness of Catholicism, or any idea that somehow Catholicism is lacking and so you participate/

My strong suspicion is that your answer to those last two questions is “no” - but I leave it to you.

Indeed, the answer is no. I would have no intention of changing Catholicism.

For many Irish, Italians, or different Hispanic cultures for instance who’s heritage may have Catholicism embedded or fostered within it, mine as a Jew allows me to really have a greater appreciation for it and gratitude. Although there is some struggle as well since my heritage is also a uniquely religious one which also can involve the denial of Christ.

 

[gcshapero]

the former does not deny the latter, and celebration of the former is not per se a denial of the latter.

Why is that not the case?

 

[otjm]

The Passover in and of itself does not deny the Eucharist; It was centuries before the Eucharist and is a foreshadowing of it. It is not, in itself an empty celebration, as it recalls (anamnesis) the Jewish people fleeing the Pharaoh under the physical leadership of Moses and the religious guidance of God.

If it were celebrated as a denial of the Eucharist (and I have absolutely no information indicating such would ever occur), then celebrating it as such would be problematic.

And celebration of the Eucharist is not a denial of it’s religious history; it is the fulfillment of the new covenant just as celebration of the Passover is a celebration of the old covenant. One does not deny the other.

If there is denial, it is that the Jewish people in part (we need to remember Christ and all of the Apostles were Jews, as were the first converts) were looking for a different type of Messiah and did not recognize the innumerable passages of their scripture which foreshadowed Christ. That; and the monotheistic base of the Jewish faith could not wrap its understanding around a triune God - again, in spite of the fact that their scripture has foreshadowing of such.

And that denial is apart from and distinct from their feasts.

 

[OneMoreTime]

My parish has, and has had for several years, a Seder meal. It’s optional. I have not attended but my impression is that it is to better understand it’s significance in relation to the Last Supper and the life of Christ and his apostles. Also, I think that honoring family is a legitimate reason in and of itself to continue participating.

 

[Pattylt]

As someone from Orthodox Judaism, I see no problems in continuing to celebrate Jewish holidays and customs if you wish to. It’s your culture and these are part of cultural practices.

I know Catholics won’t agree as hardily with me on this…but many atheists continue to celebrate Christmas. It’s their cultural tradition even though they no longer attach the religious aspect to it.

Most Jewish holidays are not religious, they are historical celebrations, including Hanukkah, Purim, Sukkot…even Simchah Torah is just celebrating the restart of the Torah.

Curious…do you still celebrate Sabbath? I don’t see a problem even with that as sabbath and Lords day are two different days.

 

[gcshapero]

The Passover in and of itself does not deny the Eucharist; It was centuries before the Eucharist and is a foreshadowing of it. It is not, in itself an empty celebration, as it recalls (anamnesis) the Jewish people fleeing the Pharaoh under the physical leadership of Moses and the religious guidance of God.

If it were celebrated as a denial of the Eucharist (and I have absolutely no information indicating such would ever occur), then celebrating it as such would be problematic.

When I say a denial of the Eucharist (which I don’t say as an absolute since I’m exploring this), I don’t mean it is literally designed that way with the intention.

What I mean is we understand Communion at Mass to be the New Passover — it is the Seder Meal brought you fruition.

However even though Christ fulfilled it, Rabbinic Judaism (in contrast to Biblical Judaism) still celebrates the Passover meal, as they reject Christ as the Son.

It still remains a religious ceremony and, even after Christ, celebrated in waiting for the messiah. This is where I struggle to celebrate it.

It’s easier for me to celebrate or recognize other Jewish ceremonies, but the Seder meal is too close for comfort when it comes to the religious statement made in it.

It’s no longer simply the reflection of the Hebrews escaping the grips of tyranny.

Granted, maybe I’m wrong and there is acceptance to this (IE, celebrated as a precursor to Maundy Thursday recognizing the old covenant coming into the new), but I haven’t heard why the Seder meal, if under Rabbinic Judaism is a recognition of waiting for the messiah, is not blasphemy.

 

[Inquiry]

A lot of this depends on the reasons that you do something. Take circumcision, for instance. It would be sinful to get circumcised or circumcise your child for the covenant, but the Church does allow for the procedure for other reasons.

Upholding the old covenant is a very real problem, but celebrating your history is not.

Side note: Infant circumcision for tradition would run against the standards for amputation in 2297 (Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations … performed on innocent persons are against the moral law) but that is because of bodily integrity, not because celebrating a tradition is a problem.

 

[BartholomewB]

Granted, maybe I’m wrong and there is acceptance to this (IE, celebrated as a precursor to Maundy Thursday recognizing the old covenant coming into the new), but I haven’t heard why the Seder meal, if under Rabbinic Judaism is a recognition of waiting for the messiah, is not blasphemy.

My parish has, and has had for several years, a Seder meal. It’s optional. I have not attended but my impression is that it is to better understand it’s significance in relation to the Last Supper and the life of Christ and his apostles.

Two things emerged from earlier threads on this subject, including the one I linked to in my post #4 on this thread.

1. There is absolutely no reason why a Catholic should refuse an invitation to attend a Passover seder. On the contrary, it is encouraged.
2. What is definitely wrong, according to the Catholic Church, is the so-called “Christian seder”, an imitation of the Passover seder that has been “sanitized” by adapting certain prayers or certain ceremonies judged to be “too Jewish”.

 

[Medawlinno]

I’m a Catholic of Jewish descent (Ashkenazim).

How many generations do you need to go back to get to your Jewish ancestors?? Or, was it just something like your parents or grandparents converted, so only a generation or two?

 

[gcshapero]

How many generations do you need to go back to get to your Jewish ancestors?? Or, was it just something like your parents or grandparents converted, so only a generation or two?

It goes back centuries. My family is Russian, but we realized that we come from the Levitical tribe.

Although I wouldn’t blame someone who struggles with this too if his family’s Judaism only went back two generations – it is still his upbringing and understanding.

 

[gcshapero]

Upholding the old covenant is a very real problem, but celebrating your history is not.

This is true, but how does one draw the line?

For some, they say anything that is celebrated within Rabbinic Judaism (IE, Judaism today) would be wrong. Why do you suppose they say this?