C
Cathdefender
Guest
It doesn’t matter who brought up Kolbe, it was your negativity AGAIN about it.
- Status
D
dessert
Guest
Maybe we will all end up in concentration camps again during
tribulation end times, then our friends and family will be all we have.
R
RCSoCal
Guest
Thank you, I hadn’t thought about Saint Theresa Benedicta. I will include her when I pray. Your grandmother sounds like a wonderful woman, like St. Monica
R
RCSoCal
Guest
Hi Just wanted to respond to 2 points:
- Husband’s interest is spiritual - he says his birth religion has not been his choice for some time. He is not trying to make me happy - I have never asked him to convert. In fact I have told him the Church teaches we should not try to convert others - he is being called somehow. I am sure nothing like this could cause a divorce - we respect each other too much. Unfortunately, it seems as if you have run into some obnoxious and pushy Catholics - I apologize for them. But in every religion these people exist. From your tone of posting, it seems you are trying to fight these people because you are hurt by them or worried about them.
- Please realize that for example with the St. M. Kolbe thread, even if what you allege were true, there will always be evil people in the Church, just as there will always be evil Jews, but that doesn’t mean the Church is not against this. The important thing is that the Church condemns anti-semitism, and if there are anti-semites in the Church, which I am sure there are, that doesn’t change the Church’s position.
- When my husband and I were married I also ran into a lot of anti-Catholic treatment by rabbis and Jewish people in general but this has not poisoned me against the good ones. Please try to be same re: the Catholic Church. I could write a long post on how I was made to feel lesser and not respected because I would not convert. And it seemed very weird to me, as if the Jewish people that acted that way were so insecure in their religion as to think that just living with a practicing Catholic would endanger my husband . By the way, we cannot have children so that issue is not a factor.
- Bottom line, it is better to concentrate on our simliarities, of which we have a lot, than to keep harping on bad apples, I think.
F
Fuerza
Guest
I’m married to a Jewish woman so I know what you’re thinking. If he has expressed that he is interested, I would certainly answer any questions, but I would probably avoid bringing up the topic myself until he did so. You can certainly pray for him as well. If you feel that he would be insulted were he to find out that you were praying outright for his conversion (which I suppose is understandable), you can simply pray for his salvation and let God worry about the details.
S
Sepharad
Guest
RCSoCal, Are you aware that in Judaism, it is a very great sin to marry outside of your faith? That was why you experienced such a reaction when you and your husband married.
The Catholic religion also does not want their members to marry outside their faith as well. As well as the Eastern Orthodox church.
In Deuteronomy 7, God explains why He does not want Jews to marry nonJews: because it will take the Jewish spouse away from the One God, and into the worship of the nonJewish spouse.
This does not always happen (I know of many cases where the Gentile spouse converted to Judaism); but historically it does happen, and this is why God forbade it, and why Judaism does too.
I just wanted to post that so you will understand why they may have reacted as they did.
You say your husband had already long ago given up Judaism; this I already knew, because those are the kinds of Jews who usually do marry outside of their faith, and convert out of it also.
It is very possible he never truly experienced authentic Judaism; I know many Jews have not. Maybe you should ask him to at least investigate authentic Judaism first, and then make up his mind?
After all, a secularized upbringing with a religious education that ends at the Bar Mitzvah (which is what many non-Orthodox Jews wind up with) is not authentic Judaism.
If you’d like to ask him to at least give true Judaism a chance first, and then make up his mind, you can refer him here:
askmoses.com
chabad.org
Best wishes!
The Catholic religion also does not want their members to marry outside their faith as well. As well as the Eastern Orthodox church.
In Deuteronomy 7, God explains why He does not want Jews to marry nonJews: because it will take the Jewish spouse away from the One God, and into the worship of the nonJewish spouse.
This does not always happen (I know of many cases where the Gentile spouse converted to Judaism); but historically it does happen, and this is why God forbade it, and why Judaism does too.
I just wanted to post that so you will understand why they may have reacted as they did.
You say your husband had already long ago given up Judaism; this I already knew, because those are the kinds of Jews who usually do marry outside of their faith, and convert out of it also.
It is very possible he never truly experienced authentic Judaism; I know many Jews have not. Maybe you should ask him to at least investigate authentic Judaism first, and then make up his mind?
After all, a secularized upbringing with a religious education that ends at the Bar Mitzvah (which is what many non-Orthodox Jews wind up with) is not authentic Judaism.
If you’d like to ask him to at least give true Judaism a chance first, and then make up his mind, you can refer him here:
askmoses.com
chabad.org
Best wishes!
R
RCSoCal
Guest
Hi again, Thanks for your information. We are not as far apart in our thinking as you may think. I have actually encouraged this. Since we married he even went once to RH/Yom Kippur services and I went along to support him. But he doesn’t want to pursue further. When we got married, I started to understand the different types of beliefs in Judaism and understand your point and I can see where you fall on the spectrum. My husband’s background was Reform before he fell away and there are some Reform rabbis, with which you probably disagree
that do not deny intermarriage. I know there are lots of sites for Jewish people to discuss on that disagree about this! So let’s not start here .I’d just like to correct one thing in your post however. It is my understanding that my marriage was not a valid Jewish marriage, because as you say, Judaism does not encourage intermarriage, although the rabbi that married us did marry us. Not to get into that, but it is wrong to say that the Roman Catholic church does not “want” intermarriage. And it is different from the Greek Orthodox Church. In the Roman Catholic Church, I have a valid marriage - just because it was performed by a rabbi doesn’t mean they discredit that; it’s valid. What it is not is sacramental; not all marriages in the RC are sacramental but there are still valid and the RC party can still participate fully in the Church. My marriage is valid civilly, valid to the church but not a sacrament and I am denied no functions of church participation/membership.
If they are sacramental, marriages they are considered at a “higher” level of spirituality, to describe quickly. It’s pretty detailed, depending on the religions of both parties.
The Greek Orthodox do not allow marriage of their members to non-Tridentine Christians, which certainly includes Jewish people. If a Greek Orthodox were to marry a Jew, (I know a person that did), the GO party is no longer a member of the GO church, he/she can go to services but not take the Eucharist/be a sponsor, etc. So the marriage is valid civilly, but not valid to the church and not valid sacramentally. That is the difference. The GO are much stricter about this than we RC are.
To summarize, I appreciate that your Judaism is very important to you and I value your comments. I can refer my husband to your sites also because I want him to be sure he is doing the right thing and as I said before, I believe God’s covenant with the Jewish people was valid, so I don’t want to interfere in things I am not supposed to. That said, he has told me he has tried this and many other religions but does not believe the precepts of Judaism, so what I am doing here is asking a priest, “What is my obligation as a RC when he asks me this?” I am sure you can understand that I need to have the priest’s direction. But thank you very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. You seem like a sincere person.
Just please also understand that to a RC person, it seems odd that Judaism cannot “live and let live” in terms of marriage. I know my husband likes that about the RC church, that our marriage can be considered valid and neither one of us has to be pressured into converting, nor do I have to give up my membership so to speak. It shows respect for the right of the individual to decide. But of course, he does not practice Judaism
. So, anyway, thanks again.
R
RCSoCal
Guest
RCSoCal, Are you aware that in Judaism, it is a very great sin to marry outside of your faith? That was why you experienced such a reaction when you and your husband married.
The Catholic religion also does not want their members to marry outside their faith as well. As well as the Eastern Orthodox church…
Hi again, Thanks for your information. We are not as far apart in our thinking as you may think. I have actually encouraged this. Since we married he even went once to RH/Yom Kippur services because I went along to support him; I don’t think he would have gone without me pushing. But he doesn’t want to pursue further. So really as a RC I am not the person to be pushing him into Judaism LOL. When we got married, I started to understand the different types of beliefs in Judaism and understand your point and I can see where you fall on the spectrum. There are rabbis that disagree with it being a sin to intermarry, but that’s a philosophical discussion I am not interested in, really, because I’m not Jewish. My husband’s background was Reform before he fell away and there are some Reform rabbis, with which you probably disagree
I’d just like to correct one thing in your post however which may help to explain the difference between RC and Reform Judaism or other types of Judaism re: intermarriage. It is my understanding that to most Jews, my marriage was not a valid Jewish marriage, because as you say, Judaism does not encourage intermarriage, although the rabbi that married us did marry us and it was valid to him (Reform rabbi).
Not to get into that, but it is not correct to say that the Roman Catholic church does not “want” intermarriage. Also, it is different from the Greek Orthodox Church. In the Roman Catholic Church, I have a valid marriage - just because it was performed by a rabbi doesn’t mean they discredit that; it’s valid. What it is not is sacramental; not all marriages in the RC are sacramental but there are still valid and the RC party can still participate fully in the Church. My marriage is valid civilly, valid to the church but not a sacrament and I am denied no functions of church participation/membership.
If they are sacramental, marriages they are considered at a “higher” level of spirituality, to describe quickly. It’s pretty detailed, depending on the religions of both parties.
The Greek Orthodox do not allow marriage of their members to non-Trinitarian Christians, which certainly includes Jewish people. If a Greek Orthodox were to marry a Jew, (I know a person that did), the GO party is no longer a member of the GO church, he/she can go to services but not take the Eucharist/be a sponsor, etc. So the marriage is valid civilly, but not valid to the church and not valid sacramentally. That is the difference. The GO are much stricter about this than we RC are.
To summarize, I appreciate that your Judaism is very important to you and I value your comments. I can refer my husband to your sites also because I want him to be sure he is doing the right thing and as I said before, I believe God’s covenant with the Jewish people was valid, so I don’t want to interfere in things I am not supposed to. That said, he has told me he has tried this and many other religions but does not believe the precepts of Judaism, so what I am doing here is asking a priest, “What is my obligation as a RC when he asks me this?” I am sure you can understand that I need to have the priest’s direction. But thank you very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. You seem like a sincere person.
Just please also understand that to a RC person, it seems odd that Judaism cannot “live and let live” in terms of marriage. I know my husband likes that about the RC church, that our marriage can be considered valid and neither one of us has to be pressured into converting, nor do I have to give up my membership so to speak. It shows respect for the right of the individual to decide. But of course, he does not practice Judaism
S
Sepharad
Guest
In the traditional RC church, Catholics were forbidden from marrying non-Catholics, and especially nonbaptized people (like Jews.) Maybe you are not old enough to remember when the church was stricter on things like that.
My mother was a former Roman Catholic who converted to Orthodox Judaism in 1944. Consequently, half my family is Catholic and I remember some of the “issues” that arose due to family members marrying outside the church (the church would allow them to marry under certain circumstances, but the non-Catholic had to agree to raise the children as Catholics, the marriage could only take place in the rectory, not the church, no Nuptial Mass allowed, etc) I had an uncle who married outside the church and they were really rough on him. When my mother married my father, the priest of her parish, not knowing she had already converted to Judaism, came by to “inform” her that she was excommunicated for marrying a Jew (but what he really meant was, an unbaptized person, called “disparity of cult” in church-speak.)
Since Vatican II, I have also known people who married outside the church as Catholics, and it was only slightly easier on them. But the non-Catholic still had to promise to let the children be Catholics.
The Eastern Orthodox do not allow their members to marry outside their church; if they do, they are excommunicated (you are basically right about that.)
So if you husband thinks the Catholic church is ‘easier’ on intermarried couples, he is only partly correct. But in more traditional times, ALL the major religions were forbidding of mixed marriages (as they were called then.)
You and your husband might find this link of interest. Its from the New Advent encyclopedia, a Roman Catholic online information source. Their entry on mixed marriages seems pretty accuaret from what I remember of pre-Vatican II rules:
newadvent.org/cathen/09698a.htm
And here is a link to a Papal document about mixed marriages, from after Vatican II. As you can see, the position really has not changed much at all. The church still is strongly opposed to mixed marriages, particularly those involving unbaptized persons…they just seem “kinder and gentler” about it now
catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm
So if your husband thinks the Catholic church is accepting of mixed marriages as opposed to Judaism’s stance, he needs to know that BOTH religions do oppose them still.
My mother was a former Roman Catholic who converted to Orthodox Judaism in 1944. Consequently, half my family is Catholic and I remember some of the “issues” that arose due to family members marrying outside the church (the church would allow them to marry under certain circumstances, but the non-Catholic had to agree to raise the children as Catholics, the marriage could only take place in the rectory, not the church, no Nuptial Mass allowed, etc) I had an uncle who married outside the church and they were really rough on him. When my mother married my father, the priest of her parish, not knowing she had already converted to Judaism, came by to “inform” her that she was excommunicated for marrying a Jew (but what he really meant was, an unbaptized person, called “disparity of cult” in church-speak.)
Since Vatican II, I have also known people who married outside the church as Catholics, and it was only slightly easier on them. But the non-Catholic still had to promise to let the children be Catholics.
The Eastern Orthodox do not allow their members to marry outside their church; if they do, they are excommunicated (you are basically right about that.)
So if you husband thinks the Catholic church is ‘easier’ on intermarried couples, he is only partly correct. But in more traditional times, ALL the major religions were forbidding of mixed marriages (as they were called then.)
You and your husband might find this link of interest. Its from the New Advent encyclopedia, a Roman Catholic online information source. Their entry on mixed marriages seems pretty accuaret from what I remember of pre-Vatican II rules:
newadvent.org/cathen/09698a.htm
And here is a link to a Papal document about mixed marriages, from after Vatican II. As you can see, the position really has not changed much at all. The church still is strongly opposed to mixed marriages, particularly those involving unbaptized persons…they just seem “kinder and gentler” about it now
catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm
So if your husband thinks the Catholic church is accepting of mixed marriages as opposed to Judaism’s stance, he needs to know that BOTH religions do oppose them still.
S
Sepharad
Guest
And here is the ruling from post-Vatican II. As you can see, the church still greeatly opposes the idea of mixed marriages, as does Judaism also:
catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm
S
Sepharad
Guest
One other thing I forgot to add: I find it interesting that both you and your husband recognize that in traditional Jewish law, a marriage between a Jew and Gentile is invalid.
What you probably don’t realize (and you can see it yourself in my 2nd link, in the “Matrimonia Mixta” decree of Pope Paul VI) is that in Catholicism, your marriage is regarded as invalid also…because you married an unbaptized person (I assume without a church dispensation), in front of a clergy other than a Catholic priest.
In Catholicism, a Catholic needs to get a special dispensation to marry an unbaptized person…and I think it has to always be before a priest.
I’m not trying to upset you; I just want you to see that the same issue your husband had with Judaism, he would also have with Catholicism.
What you probably don’t realize (and you can see it yourself in my 2nd link, in the “Matrimonia Mixta” decree of Pope Paul VI) is that in Catholicism, your marriage is regarded as invalid also…because you married an unbaptized person (I assume without a church dispensation), in front of a clergy other than a Catholic priest.
In Catholicism, a Catholic needs to get a special dispensation to marry an unbaptized person…and I think it has to always be before a priest.
I’m not trying to upset you; I just want you to see that the same issue your husband had with Judaism, he would also have with Catholicism.
R
RCSoCal
Guest
Hi, No upset. I find this conversation interesting.
To answer, our marriage is valid for the Church because we do have a dispensation. So I must disagree. I don’t think the Church is anti-intermarriage; I think they tell you that you could be in a more “spiritually advanced” relationship with someone that shares the same faith. But I also think we and people in your family are in a special place. Isn’t there a word in Hebrew/Jewish tradition for people that are kind of “intermediaries”, understanding both faiths? I forget what it is…
I know what you are saying about the past. The Church also brought us the Inquisition, remember? But I do know that there are evil clergy and evil members in the Church. I believe this is a temptation from Satan to make people reject the Church as a whole because of people claiming to be members that do not follow the teachings. That’s an easy way out for many.
I converted in the 1980’s so I do not remember things pre-John Paul II. So I have the advantage of not being tainted by all that. My father and mother had an “invalid” marriage because he had a prior divorce and she was not RC but that didn’t turn me against the Church.
Anyway, it seems to me useless to keep bringing up the past. I am sorry if you had hurt in your family because of it. I remember some other people on my Dad’s side going through that same thing. But that doesn’t make it right. And it is past. This is not the Church’s position now.
There are so many people in the Church, billions, that I think statistically alone, you are bound to get evil ones. But ultimately, in the end, Good will prevail.
When we married, I had to promise “to do all I could” not guarantee, that any children would be brought up in the Church. This makes sense to me, but I can’t have children so no issue. I also had to promise it would not affect my practicing the faith. No issue either. And that my husband would be aware of these promises. No issue either. That may have been different in the past, but maybe I wouldn’t have been Catholic in the past. I can only deal with reality now. Life is too short.
I just want to verify one thing. I thought about this and is what you are suggesting that my husband return to Judaism and divorce me to get a Jewish wife? Seems weird given your initial suggestion that if I told him about the Church he might want a divorce and you thought that wouldn’t be good. Please let me know your ideal scenario for my husband. Is that what it would be? Assuming I am not going to convert, of course.
I think this is where we disagree. It seems very exclusionary and elitist and separatist to not allow mixed marriages. The Church believes that these commandments were given to the Jewish people, our elder brothers in the faith, sharing your Torah/our Old Testament, to keep them pure so they could bring the Messiah. We believe He already arrived. I think the Jewish people believe that He is still coming although I understand that some are now anti-Messianic. Please pardon my lack of understanding ofall this but I think I do better than the average “shiksa”. LOL. So I think people find it hard to understand why Jewish people are so concerned about anti-semitism when they consider any other religion’s people unfit to marry. Shiksa has you know means something like an unclean rodent.. This is where the double standard comes in. I just don’t believe in separatism. And it seems to me illogical that some of the rabbis would marry us if I were an atheist but not a practicing RC member. Atheists do not share our core ethical values. I guess even an immoral Jewish woman would be a better match? Or maybe it’s just that I and the atheist are indistinguishably bad?
I cannot in all good conscience try to convert my husband to a religion that is separatist. In good faith, I will read your URL sites even though I disagree because I want to learn. Please also in good faith, read this book, Salvation is from the Jews, by Ray Schoeman. Although you will disagree with it, it will give you a perspective of what the Church believes. Thanks,
To answer, our marriage is valid for the Church because we do have a dispensation. So I must disagree. I don’t think the Church is anti-intermarriage; I think they tell you that you could be in a more “spiritually advanced” relationship with someone that shares the same faith. But I also think we and people in your family are in a special place. Isn’t there a word in Hebrew/Jewish tradition for people that are kind of “intermediaries”, understanding both faiths? I forget what it is…
I know what you are saying about the past. The Church also brought us the Inquisition, remember? But I do know that there are evil clergy and evil members in the Church. I believe this is a temptation from Satan to make people reject the Church as a whole because of people claiming to be members that do not follow the teachings. That’s an easy way out for many.
I converted in the 1980’s so I do not remember things pre-John Paul II. So I have the advantage of not being tainted by all that. My father and mother had an “invalid” marriage because he had a prior divorce and she was not RC but that didn’t turn me against the Church.
Anyway, it seems to me useless to keep bringing up the past. I am sorry if you had hurt in your family because of it. I remember some other people on my Dad’s side going through that same thing. But that doesn’t make it right. And it is past. This is not the Church’s position now.
There are so many people in the Church, billions, that I think statistically alone, you are bound to get evil ones. But ultimately, in the end, Good will prevail.
When we married, I had to promise “to do all I could” not guarantee, that any children would be brought up in the Church. This makes sense to me, but I can’t have children so no issue. I also had to promise it would not affect my practicing the faith. No issue either. And that my husband would be aware of these promises. No issue either. That may have been different in the past, but maybe I wouldn’t have been Catholic in the past
. I can only deal with reality now. Life is too short.I just want to verify one thing. I thought about this and is what you are suggesting that my husband return to Judaism and divorce me to get a Jewish wife? Seems weird given your initial suggestion that if I told him about the Church he might want a divorce and you thought that wouldn’t be good. Please let me know your ideal scenario for my husband. Is that what it would be? Assuming I am not going to convert, of course.
I think this is where we disagree. It seems very exclusionary and elitist and separatist to not allow mixed marriages. The Church believes that these commandments were given to the Jewish people, our elder brothers in the faith, sharing your Torah/our Old Testament, to keep them pure so they could bring the Messiah. We believe He already arrived. I think the Jewish people believe that He is still coming although I understand that some are now anti-Messianic. Please pardon my lack of understanding ofall this but I think I do better than the average “shiksa”. LOL. So I think people find it hard to understand why Jewish people are so concerned about anti-semitism when they consider any other religion’s people unfit to marry. Shiksa has you know means something like an unclean rodent.
. This is where the double standard comes in. I just don’t believe in separatism. And it seems to me illogical that some of the rabbis would marry us if I were an atheist but not a practicing RC member. Atheists do not share our core ethical values. I guess even an immoral Jewish woman would be a better match? Or maybe it’s just that I and the atheist are indistinguishably bad?I cannot in all good conscience try to convert my husband to a religion that is separatist. In good faith, I will read your URL sites even though I disagree because I want to learn. Please also in good faith, read this book, Salvation is from the Jews, by Ray Schoeman. Although you will disagree with it, it will give you a perspective of what the Church believes. Thanks,
R
RCSoCal
Guest
One more clarification:
No, it was not required that a priest be present at our marriage for the RC to consider it valid. Just dispensation from canonical form and permission for disparity of cult. The RC is very sensitive to the Jewish participants and allows and often recommends that the ceremony be held outside a church. They don’t want the Jewish parties to feel uncomfortable. They also will not celebrate the Eucharist because the Jewish people could not and wouldn’t want to participate and it’s supposed to be a symbol of unity so they don’t allow it at mixed ceremonies. The RC is like the Jewish tradition - the priest or rabbi is not strictly necessary because the 2 parties are the ones making the contract. There are lots of similarities - in many types of thinking more similarities between RC and Jewish than RC and Protestant.
Yes, both my husband and I understand that Orthodox and most Conservative Jewish people do not think we have a religiously valid union. They think it is only civil. That is why I think it is useless for you to ask me to keep telling him to go back to something he never believed in, but I appreciate that this is important to you. Is that because his race is Jewish? Even though he doesn’t believe? This is the assumption so perhaps you can see why people say that Judaism is racist. I didn’t know all of this - I am just learning about it. As far as I am concerned, I can help him celebrate his holidays - I even fasted on YK - and he comes to mass with me. We are OK. But I respect your right to believe that he is in sin for this. One last question. What is the consequence of that sin according to your, I assume Orthodox, faith?
No, it was not required that a priest be present at our marriage for the RC to consider it valid. Just dispensation from canonical form and permission for disparity of cult. The RC is very sensitive to the Jewish participants and allows and often recommends that the ceremony be held outside a church. They don’t want the Jewish parties to feel uncomfortable. They also will not celebrate the Eucharist because the Jewish people could not and wouldn’t want to participate and it’s supposed to be a symbol of unity so they don’t allow it at mixed ceremonies. The RC is like the Jewish tradition - the priest or rabbi is not strictly necessary because the 2 parties are the ones making the contract. There are lots of similarities - in many types of thinking more similarities between RC and Jewish than RC and Protestant.
Yes, both my husband and I understand that Orthodox and most Conservative Jewish people do not think we have a religiously valid union. They think it is only civil. That is why I think it is useless for you to ask me to keep telling him to go back to something he never believed in, but I appreciate that this is important to you. Is that because his race is Jewish? Even though he doesn’t believe? This is the assumption so perhaps you can see why people say that Judaism is racist. I didn’t know all of this - I am just learning about it. As far as I am concerned, I can help him celebrate his holidays - I even fasted on YK - and he comes to mass with me. We are OK. But I respect your right to believe that he is in sin for this. One last question. What is the consequence of that sin according to your, I assume Orthodox, faith?
S
Sepharad
Guest
I don’t know him as well as you do, but the impression I get is that he was turned off because of how some Jews responded to your marriage, would that be basically correct?
I have to tell you, I grew up in an Orthodox Jewish home, but too often, the religion came across to me as very formal, dry and consisting of rote mitzvos (good deeds) and repetitive prayers. Whenever I’d ask why we did this or that, the answer I always got was, “We just do, you don’t need to know why”. That was not good enough for this nosy kid!
I drifted away as a teenager, in my own form of rebellion. I returned to an active practice of Judaism after finding the Chasidic movement, particularly Lubavitch. They infuse Judaism with a life and a joy that I’d not known growing up. And, theire rabbis were never too busy to answer my many questions (unlike the rabbis of my youth.)
But even as personable and friendly as they are, I also knew I needed more. Recently, I have discovered the Jewish Renewal Movement, which was founded by a Chasidic rabbi who had once been involved in Lubavitch.
Their worship servivces are very lively, involving singing, handclapping, drums, guitars, etc Those Catholics who are involved in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal would find it similar in some ways. And the people are very loving, very friendly, not like anything I’ve ever seen before.
They welcome all people to their services: Jews, Christians, Buddhists, intermarried couples, people on spiritual searches. You don’t have to be Jewish.
Since going there, I have met many intermarried couples who felt as your husband does; they felt “regular” Judaism did not accept them, but here they are accepted.
I’ve also met many Jews there whose spiritual journeys took them through other faith traditions, such as Buddhism and Christianity.
The unique thing about this movement is: you don’t need to leave your own religion, church or synagogue to worship with them. They see themselves as sort of supplementary…for people who feel their regular synagogue, etc is not “enough”…it serves to round out their experience, and enables them to have a deeper, more personal relationship with God, in a Jewish milieu.
They are also active in helping the community, by way of feeding the poor, helping with Habitat for Humanity, working to help the environment…and they don’t limit their help to Jews (one thing that does annoy me sometimes about ‘regular’ Judaism!)
They have congregations all over the USA, and some in other countries too. In addition to remaining Catholic, you guys might find this an interesting addition!
(Not sure where in SoCal you are, but here is the website for the Makom community in West Hills): makom.org
S
Sepharad
Guest
One thing I wanted to address and forgot about:
You mentioned the Catholic church giving us “the Inquisition”. That’s only partially correct. There were actually several “Inquisitions”, the one most people usually mean was the Spanish Inquisition, and that one was not really orchestrated by the church, but by the (Catholic) monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.
(This is all fresh in my mind because my oldest daughter just finished her homeschooling for the year, and her final history exam was on European history, which focused quite a bit on the Spanish Inquisition!)
You mentioned the Catholic church giving us “the Inquisition”. That’s only partially correct. There were actually several “Inquisitions”, the one most people usually mean was the Spanish Inquisition, and that one was not really orchestrated by the church, but by the (Catholic) monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.
(This is all fresh in my mind because my oldest daughter just finished her homeschooling for the year, and her final history exam was on European history, which focused quite a bit on the Spanish Inquisition!)
D
dessert
Guest
I have a question and answer book about the catholic church in my bathroom for my husband to look at you know the reading room. You can buy one on line, Mine is by Father John Dietzen, some say he is liberal but not sure. Catholic Q&A
Another is by Father Hardon. Do you have a Baltimore Catechism? You can download online www.baltimorecatechismonline.com
which I have been picking up alot to learn it that I never did.
but I have the big green one and the compedium and the
**The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism
** this is geared for 5th through 8th graders has a good study guide
S
Sepharad
Guest
RCSoCal,
I wanted to tell you about a really great book that I think both you and your husband might like to read. It will give both of you a truly different understanding, one I’m sure (based on what you’ve said) neither of you have experienced. The author speaks to people of all religious faiths in this book, something that would especially appeal to interfaith couples.
I’m actually almost finished with this book now, and it has really opened my mind a lot!
amazon.com/Jewish-Feeling-Guide-Meaningful-Practice/dp/B000NO9JAA/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213796870&sr=1-2
(a link to it at Amazon is above; you can buy copies used as well via that link.)
I wanted to tell you about a really great book that I think both you and your husband might like to read. It will give both of you a truly different understanding, one I’m sure (based on what you’ve said) neither of you have experienced. The author speaks to people of all religious faiths in this book, something that would especially appeal to interfaith couples.
I’m actually almost finished with this book now, and it has really opened my mind a lot!
amazon.com/Jewish-Feeling-Guide-Meaningful-Practice/dp/B000NO9JAA/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213796870&sr=1-2
(a link to it at Amazon is above; you can buy copies used as well via that link.)
A
angelusm
Guest
Jesus wants us to preach the Gospel to everybody. Pray for him conversion and be a good witness of Jesus.
A
angelusm
Guest
Jews were (are?) engaged very much in communism and freemasonry so it’s hard to imagine that Maximilian Kolbe could have positive attitude towards those who were (are?) extremely anti-Catholic. Should he, in your opinion, be silent?
S
Sepharad
Guest
RCSoCal, meet angelusm. This person has posted many antiJewish messages on this forum, I just felt you should be aware of it (check the older messages to see what I mean.)
Maybe you can get a feel for it from the last message she/he posted.
- Status