Jewish friends and family

[RCSoCal]

One thing I wanted to address and forgot about:

You mentioned the Catholic church giving us “the Inquisition”. That’s only partially correct. There were actually several “Inquisitions”, the one most people usually mean was the Spanish Inquisition, and that one was not really orchestrated by the church, but by the (Catholic) monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.

(This is all fresh in my mind because my oldest daughter just finished her homeschooling for the year, and her final history exam was on European history, which focused quite a bit on the Spanish Inquisition!)

Hi again, Yes, true, I understand. I lived in Spain for 2 years in university - should have said they supported it. Politics always gets involved!

Thanks for all your information. We are both nosy. This makes life interesting. My position is that who knows what God’s will is for the details of our journey? To reduce it all to doctrinal arguments minimizes His greatness. I think we Christians and Jews should be more worried about all the radical Muslims out there that want us dead or converted or both . Uh-oh, don’t mean to start another thread!!!

I am very happy that we could exchange information. I think the more openness, the better, and the fewer misinterpretations.
Thank you for your time on this. I cannot post more for now, but may revisit site later in week. I will pray for you and your family. And my husband. Even to you that “can’t hurt”, right? Or maybe it wouldn’t bother you since you might think my prayers are going nowhere. But I will still pray for you, not to convert you, but that God’s blessings and will continue to manifest in your life.

I see you didn’t answer my question as to why so much concern to convert him back to Judaism, or on your ideal scenario for my husband, but maybe another time…I am unfortunately assuming that, in the meantime, silence equals assent.

In closing, to answer your question: “I don’t know him as well as you do, but the impression I get is that he was turned off because of how some Jews responded to your marriage, would that be basically correct?”

Answer: This was one turn off for him, but he had SO LONG AGO before that undertaken his spiritual investigations and decided not to practice Judaism, very adamantly, that I don’t think it made any difference. I just mentioned he found it appealing that the priests didn’t do that. Another recent turn off was some of them offering to overlook this little problem in return for a big donation to the synagoge fund. But as I say, he had long ago become solely a “lox and bagels” Jewish person, some say, meaning that he identifies with the cultural practices on a secular basis, but does not believe in the religion of his birth.

I really posted intending to get some responses from the Catholic perspective, and forgot to thank everyone for them. And as I say I will post to the priests on apologist area, when I have time. But I am glad to have had a learning experience here as well.
Shalom and best to you.

 

[Sepharad]

I’m sorry I didn’t reply to your question, but the truth is, I missed it!
You were asking if I regarded your marriage as valid or not? Well, in the eyes of traditional Jewish Law, its not a matter of being “invalid”; Jewish Law does not regard such a marriage as even possible. What I believe doesn’t matter, does it?

As for the problem your husband had with someone saying something could be overlooked if he made a big donation, does he truly think that never happens in other religions, esp. Catholicism?

One of my uncles married in the church, and he and his first wife separated, then divorced. When he met my Aunt Phyllis, she was a devout Catholic and would not marry him unless his first marriage was annulled (this was before Vatican II, when annulments were harder to get.)

Well, the priest told him that if he made a large donation to the parish, he would speed up the annulment. I always found that amazing, that money could make things “happen” like that. I’m sure older Catholics could tell you other, similar stories.

I see you are a convert to Catholicism (from reading another thread), so you would not have been exposed to that kind of thing, either.

I suspect your husband may be seeking to enter another religion which he thinks doesn’t do some of those things, but the truth is, you will find it in ALL religions from time to time.

Religions are not perfect; only God is.

You asked something else: why does it matter if your husband stays Jewish or not, if he gave up the religion years ago?

Jews are a people, not only a religion. If a Jew stops practicing the religion, he remains a Jew as long as he does not actively join another religion. Its hard for nonJews to understand, because mostly all nonJewish religions are based solely on belief and faith. But Judaism doesn’t work like that.

We are a people that has its own religious covenant with God. God requires us to remain within that covenant, and while it is definitely preferable that a Jew keep Torah, if he does not there is always hope for his resumption of keeping Torah, provided he does not join another religion (esp. one that has so many views that run so counter to Torah, as Catholicism does.)

I’m not sure if that makes any sense, this is perhaps all new to you since your only exposure was to Reform.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Eden]

One thing I wanted to address and forgot about:

You mentioned the Catholic church giving us “the Inquisition”. That’s only partially correct. There were actually several “Inquisitions”, the one most people usually mean was the Spanish Inquisition, and that one was not really orchestrated by the church, but by the (Catholic) monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella.

(This is all fresh in my mind because my oldest daughter just finished her homeschooling for the year, and her final history exam was on European history, which focused quite a bit on the Spanish Inquisition!)

No one expects the Mosaic Inquisition!!!

“Anti-Catholics regularly bash the Church with the Inquisition, especially the Spanish Inquisition, asserting that it shows how evil the Church truly is. This charge should be anticipated by us. Any amount of dealing with anti-Catholics is bound to bring it to the surface. What almost nobody expects is for a Catholic to reply by pointing to the biblical ‘Mosaic Inquisition.’”

The rest of the article is here:

catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9807chap.asp

 

[Eden]

Look back in the thread and see who first mentioned Kolbe. Hint: it was not I.

I won’t take part in the Kolbe discussion here anymore out of respect for the OP. My only intent was to correct a mistaken assumption of another poster.

I brought him up to praise him. I said he and Edith Stein were two bright lights in the darkness of the Holocaust. This didn’t become an issue until you accused a man of being anti-Semitic, who gave his life by being injected with carbolic acid, to save the life of a Jewish man. Just as with much of what you have to say about Catholics and Catholicism here, such an accusation is ludicrous. Someone who gave their own life to spare a Jewish man’s life is an anti-Semite? On what planet does that make sense?

 

[Valke2]

Just a quick thought on interfaith marriages. My understanding is that, generally, and I mean generally, Judaism does prohibits one from marrying outside his/her faith, but once it is done, it recognizes the marriage. As a practical matter, how such people are treated will vary from community to community.

 

[Sepharad]

I hope RCSoCal is still reading this thread, because I have noticed some puzzling things that I’d like, in all honesty, to ask her about.

RCSoCal, in a thread I normally post in yesterday, you said you were a Lutheran who “came home” to the Catholic church.

I’m not sure if you know this, but for the past 30 or so years, I have worked with converts to and from Judaism, and to and from other religions. I am an exit counselor, which means I volunteer with a Jewish agency that assist Jews seeking to return to Judaism after converting to other faiths. I am also married to a convert to Judaism, and am the daughter of a woman who converted to Judaism. There are also many converts to Judaism in my immediate community.

Consequently, this has given me much experience with converts to religions, and I have noticed one thing about all of them without exception: they develop a very strong zeal for their new religion, and strive very hard to do everything the new religion expects.

After reading what you said in the other thread yesterday, I was stunned because I compared it with what you’ve been saying here.

I frankly do not know any convert to Catholicism (who speaks of their conversion as “coming home to the Catholic church”, no less) who would choose to marry not only a non-Catholic but an unbaptized one, before only a Reform rabbi no less, without a priest. I realize you said you had a dispensation (so we know you married him after becoming Catholic), but I have frankly never heard of a sincere, zealous convert (as your other posts seem to show you are), doing something like this. And you said you became a Catholic in the 1980s, so that is quite some time ago.

You spoke in this thread very much like a Catholic who was not very knowledgeable of the Catholic faith, and I assumed you were like most Catholics and Jews who intermarry: not religious and not very well versed in your faith.

Yet in the other thread (s), you sounded like a completely different person. I have to confess, I am very confused.

You are a new member, with only about 20 posts, so I wonder what’s going on? Could you fill me in?

I would have contacted you privately on this via PM, but you have your account set up so that no one can contact you.

I sincerely hope you are not playing a game with the people on this thread, regardless of which “side” they post from. People are entitled to genuineness.

I apologize if I have misunderstood, but this is all very confusing to me. I sincerely was trying to help you, and I hope this was not some sort of game.

 

[Sepharad]

I brought him up to praise him. I said he and Edith Stein were two bright lights in the darkness of the Holocaust. This didn’t become an issue until you accused a man of being anti-Semitic, who gave his life by being injected with carbolic acid, to save the life of a Jewish man. Just as with much of what you have to say about Catholics and Catholicism here, such an accusation is ludicrous. Someone who gave their own life to spare a Jewish man’s life is an anti-Semite? On what planet does that make sense?

When did Francis Gajnowski become a “Jewish” man? Not that it matters, but everything I have ever read about the Kolbe case said that Gajnowski was a Polish Catholic man…and Francis Gajnowski is not a Jewish name anyway. FWIW.

 

[Cathdefender]

When did Francis Gajnowski become a “Jewish” man? Not that it matters, but everything I have ever read about the Kolbe case said that Gajnowski was a Polish Catholic man…and Francis Gajnowski is not a Jewish name anyway. FWIW.

What difference does it make Hashem?? A LIFE WAS SPARED!

 

[RCSoCal]

I’m sorry I didn’t reply to your question, but the truth is, I missed it!
You were asking if I regarded your marriage as valid or not? Well, in the eyes of traditional Jewish Law, its not a matter of being “invalid”; Jewish Law does not regard such a marriage as even possible. What I believe doesn’t matter, does it?

As for the problem your husband had with someone saying something could be overlooked if he made a big donation, does he truly think that never happens in other religions, esp. Catholicism?

One of my uncles married in the church, and he and his first wife separated, then divorced. When he met my Aunt Phyllis, she was a devout Catholic and would not marry him unless his first marriage was annulled (this was before Vatican II, when annulments were harder to get.)

Well, the priest told him that if he made a large donation to the parish, he would speed up the annulment. I always found that amazing, that money could make things “happen” like that. I’m sure older Catholics could tell you other, similar stories.

I see you are a convert to Catholicism (from reading another thread), so you would not have been exposed to that kind of thing, either.

I suspect your husband may be seeking to enter another religion which he thinks doesn’t do some of those things, but the truth is, you will find it in ALL religions from time to time.

Religions are not perfect; only God is.

You asked something else: why does it matter if your husband stays Jewish or not, if he gave up the religion years ago?

Jews are a people, not only a religion. If a Jew stops practicing the religion, he remains a Jew as long as he does not actively join another religion. Its hard for nonJews to understand, because mostly all nonJewish religions are based solely on belief and faith. But Judaism doesn’t work like that.

We are a people that has its own religious covenant with God. God requires us to remain within that covenant, and while it is definitely preferable that a Jew keep Torah, if he does not there is always hope for his resumption of keeping Torah, provided he does not join another religion (esp. one that has so many views that run so counter to Torah, as Catholicism does.)

I’m not sure if that makes any sense, this is perhaps all new to you since your only exposure was to Reform.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Hi, sorry, misinterpretation I was not asking: “You were asking if I regarded your marriage as valid or not? Well, in the eyes of traditional Jewish Law, its not a matter of being “invalid”; Jewish Law does not regard such a marriage as even possible. What I believe doesn’t matter, does it?”

I was asking, to you what is the ideal scenario for my husband (see prior thread): resume practicing Reform Judaism, start practicing Orthodox Judaism and divorce me to get a Jewish wife, since I am forbidden, or some other scenario? Just curious as since my church sees our marriage as valid and he sees it as valid, we are OK. Also asking since in your first post, your reason to ask me to not answer his questions about my religion was, implied, that he might divorce me. But it seems that if he were to practice Judaism the way you do, he would have to get rid of me. Also, is the logical conclusion that for him to marry an immoral Jew would be better than to marry a “righteous gentile” - I think that concept exists, right? Or for him to marry an immoral Jew would be better than him to marry an atheist? Or that I and the atheist are indistinguishably worse for him than the immoral Jew? No worry on that anyway, because he says he cannot identify with any of the Jewish women he dated…

Also I had asked, what is the consequence for the “sin” of intermarriage? One of the consequences in RC for sins are that they may impact your salvation, but I don’t know what Judaism teaches about that, I have heard a couple of things, but am not clear. What do you see as his spiritual consequences for this great sin? I know you don’t see the afterlife in the same way as the RC.

Finally, I guess my assumption was correct that your concern is because of his race, although you state this as a people, this means a race, I don’t know any other way to identify a people, do you? Please explain. Thanks,

 

[Sepharad]

Hi, sorry, misinterpretation I was not asking: “You were asking if I regarded your marriage as valid or not? Well, in the eyes of traditional Jewish Law, its not a matter of being “invalid”; Jewish Law does not regard such a marriage as even possible. What I believe doesn’t matter, does it?”

I was asking, to you what is the ideal scenario for my husband (see prior thread): resume practicing Reform Judaism, start practicing Orthodox Judaism and divorce me to get a Jewish wife, since I am forbidden, or some other scenario? Just curious as since my church sees our marriage as valid and he sees it as valid, we are OK. Also asking since in your first post, your reason to ask me to not answer his questions about my religion was, implied, that he might divorce me. But it seems that if he were to practice Judaism the way you do, he would have to get rid of me. Also, is the logical conclusion that for him to marry an immoral Jew would be better than to marry a “righteous gentile” - I think that concept exists, right? Or for him to marry an immoral Jew would be better than him to marry an atheist? Or that I and the atheist are indistinguishably worse for him than the immoral Jew? No worry on that anyway, because he says he cannot identify with any of the Jewish women he dated…

Also I had asked, what is the consequence for the “sin” of intermarriage? One of the consequences in RC for sins are that they may impact your salvation, but I don’t know what Judaism teaches about that, I have heard a couple of things, but am not clear. What do you see as his spiritual consequences for this great sin? I know you don’t see the afterlife in the same way as the RC.

Finally, I guess my assumption was correct that your concern is because of his race, although you state this as a people, this means a race, I don’t know any other way to identify a people, do you? Please explain. Thanks,

Jews are not a race; that was something the Nazis taught. We have never identified as a race. We are a religio-nation, which means, we are a people with our own religion.

I’m not going to reply further to your most recent post, until I know you have read my post #45…because any further replies may be unnecessary.

I forgot to add to post #45 that I found it rather disappointing that you allowed your husband to see his religion as wrong because of some of the people in it (the money issue), when in one of your posts in another thread, you stated that you understand that a religion should never be judged by the people in it (referring to your adopted Catholic faith.)

I do not see why that outlook applies to Catholicism, but not Judaism.

I await your reply to post 45.

 

[RCSoCal]

I hope RCSoCal is still reading this thread, because I have noticed some puzzling things that I’d like, in all honesty, to ask her about.

RCSoCal, in a thread I normally post in yesterday, you said you were a Lutheran who “came home” to the Catholic church.

I’m not sure if you know this, but for the past 30 or so years, I have worked with converts to and from Judaism, and to and from other religions. I am an exit counselor, which means I volunteer with a Jewish agency that assist Jews seeking to return to Judaism after converting to other faiths. I am also married to a convert to Judaism, and am the daughter of a woman who converted to Judaism. There are also many converts to Judaism in my immediate community.

Consequently, this has given me much experience with converts to religions, and I have noticed one thing about all of them without exception: they develop a very strong zeal for their new religion, and strive very hard to do everything the new religion expects.

After reading what you said in the other thread yesterday, I was stunned because I compared it with what you’ve been saying here.

I frankly do not know any convert to Catholicism (who speaks of their conversion as “coming home to the Catholic church”, no less) who would choose to marry not only a non-Catholic but an unbaptized one, before only a Reform rabbi no less, without a priest. I realize you said you had a dispensation (so we know you married him after becoming Catholic), but I have frankly never heard of a sincere, zealous convert (as your other posts seem to show you are), doing something like this. And you said you became a Catholic in the 1980s, so that is quite some time ago.

You spoke in this thread very much like a Catholic who was not very knowledgeable of the Catholic faith, and I assumed you were like most Catholics and Jews who intermarry: not religious and not very well versed in your faith.

Yet in the other thread (s), you sounded like a completely different person. I have to confess, I am very confused.

You are a new member, with only about 20 posts, so I wonder what’s going on? Could you fill me in?

I would have contacted you privately on this via PM, but you have your account set up so that no one can contact you.

I sincerely hope you are not playing a game with the people on this thread, regardless of which “side” they post from. People are entitled to genuineness.

I apologize if I have misunderstood, but this is all very confusing to me. I sincerely was trying to help you, and I hope this was not some sort of game.

Hi, perhaps internet postings can be confusing. I will try to answer 1 by 1. I missed a lot of these postings because of the way the email notifications link to the thread.

-Please do not generalize, all converts and all converts to all relguibs are not the same. Just because I believe in Catholicism, does not mean I have to marry a Catholic, nor do I have to be an extremist. My conversion was for me, not for my husband. Please understand this. You are not a priest, so I don’t think you should make judgements about my decisions, which are fine with priests. As I said, before, it is not necessary to marry a Catholic, according to priests. This seems to be where your religion differs. If 2 Catholics marry, they have a sacramental marriage. If a Catholic marries a non-Catholic of any type, the marriage is valid, but not sacramental, assuming all is in order on dispensations.
-“Coming home” means I believe the Catholic church has the truth that the Lutheran church lost, ergo it is home to me.

• Being a convert doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about the Church. I asked this question, because I wanted guidance from a priest. It is not a game. I am well versed in my faith but I don’t know exactly what the Church expects from me in the dialogue on Judaism and I think many Catholics do not know a lot about how the Church views Judaism. I have just started reading Salvation is from the Jews, and I am exploring a lot of research. I want sincere guidance from a priest and I see that I came to the wrong place since I haven’t received an answer from one. I am going to consult my parish priest as to how to answer my husband’s questions about my Church, what my obligations are and how the Church sees his situation. When we married, this never was an issue because we both agreed neither was interested in converting.

 

[Sepharad]

If you think the Roman Catholic church supports mixed marriages and favors them, I REALLY think you need to sit down and discuss this with a reputable, orthodox Roman Catholic priest.

And I’m sure the orthodox Catholics of this forum would be more than happy to tell you the same thing.

Why not ask in the Ask an Apologist, if the Catholic church actually favors mixed marriages? You don’t have to take it from me.

Working with a couple that want to have a mixed marriage is not the same as outright acceptance and favoring of it. Its called “making the best of a bad situation”…which is probably also how the Reform rabbi saw it.

What puzzles me is: you said your husband gave up his religion a LONG time ago. So why did you get married before a Reform rabbi and not a priest? That makes no sense to me, if his religion had long stopped meaning anything to him. I’d think he would have wanted to married by a priest, since clearly, as you say, your religion means more to you than his does to him, right?

You also did not answer my other question: in one of the other threads, you said that you recognize that a few bad apples in a religion does not make the whole religion bad…yet in this thread, you said your husband rejected Judaism because of a few bad apples in it…and you did nothing to correct his impression, you even ended your statement with a happy face…

I’m not trying to be nosy or violate your privacy; its just that I see too many things here that make me go “hmmm”. I’m sure you understand, in view of your other posts.

 

[RCSoCal]

Jews are not a race; that was something the Nazis taught. We have never identified as a race. We are a religio-nation, which means, we are a people with our own religion.

I’m not going to reply further to your most recent post, until I know you have read my post #45…because any further replies may be unnecessary.

I forgot to add to post #45 that I found it rather disappointing that you allowed your husband to see his religion as wrong because of some of the people in it (the money issue), when in one of your posts in another thread, you stated that you understand that a religion should never be judged by the people in it (referring to your adopted Catholic faith.)

I do not see why that outlook applies to Catholicism, but not Judaism.

I await your reply to post 45.

I replied to 45. Please reference.

This site is really funny! It was a Jewish person that told me Jews are a race not a religion, so sorry if I offended you, I thought I was being correct and sensitive and using her wording. This had to do with Jews not recognizing converts and such and I see your family has female converts so you probably don’t believe you have to be born of a non-converted Jewish mother to be Jewish. I am getting an idea of what is meant, I think, and it is very complicated, but it is still related to what you were born, I guess, right? I cannot identify or agree with this - I don’t think we are obligated to follow our birth religions - unless we are a “race”, so see how it is confusing? To Jews this seems obvious, sorry, but for me hard to get it.

I just don’t like what I perceive as insistence on him having to practice Judaism because his mother happened to be Jewish. He really dislikes the whole religion and most of the culture. That is not my fault. And it is not my responsibility to correct this. I’m sure you agree it is not your responsibility to correct your relative that converted from Catholicism to Judaism . Maybe he is a “Catholic” soul (this is a well intended joke) since I have heard that in Judaism people believe they have Jewish souls.

Oh dear! It is not my place nor anyone’s place to “allow” their husbands to think anything. His being turned off to the money thing was not presented as a difference from RC, just as an answer when you asked why he was turned off. One difference that he has noted, though, is that in the RC you don’t have to buy tickets to Christmas mass. It just seems to him like there is a lot of emphasis on money. Maybe true in general RC also but I have never encountered, and it was his observation, not mine.

I think the “allow” comment shows where we differ. I am not trying to dictate anything - it seems that in your religion you feel you are justified in dictating to him and to me that he has to practice Judaism - I cannot agree. But this has been interesting and thanks for all your words.

As I say, my question was to find out the Church’s position about what I should share with non-baptized persons. Sometimes sharing too much might put them into a position of being in danger of salvation that they would not have been if they had not received this information; this is all from the RC perspective.

I probably should have indicated he is a secular Jew. Would have saved a lot of time.

 

[Sepharad]

Whoever told you that Jews are a “race” was dead wrong according to Jewish Law. And whoever led you to believe that converts are not accepted to Judaism was also dead wrong.

The very FIRST Jew, Avraham, was a convert! Ruth was a convert. Obadiah, who wrote the smallest book of the Bible, was a convert. Most of the Orthodox Jews I know in my community are either converts or married to converts (including me, since my husband is a convert.)

The only Jews who will claim you must be born Jewish are usually the nonreligious Jews, because they are totally uneducated in Jewish Law.

As far as I know, the only one who ever issued a law stating that a Jew is only one who is born such, was Hitler.

If you want to know the TRUTH, you can ask at

askmoses.com This is a website for Jews and nonJews who want to ask questions about what traditional Judaism teaches.

 

[RCSoCal]

If you think the Roman Catholic church supports mixed marriages and favors them, I REALLY think you need to sit down and discuss this with a reputable, orthodox Roman Catholic priest.

And I’m sure the orthodox Catholics of this forum would be more than happy to tell you the same thing.

Why not ask in the Ask an Apologist, if the Catholic church actually favors mixed marriages? You don’t have to take it from me.

Working with a couple that want to have a mixed marriage is not the same as outright acceptance and favoring of it. Its called “making the best of a bad situation”…which is probably also how the Reform rabbi saw it.

What puzzles me is: you said your husband gave up his religion a LONG time ago. So why did you get married before a Reform rabbi and not a priest? That makes no sense to me, if his religion had long stopped meaning anything to him. I’d think he would have wanted to married by a priest, since clearly, as you say, your religion means more to you than his does to him, right?

You also did not answer my other question: in one of the other threads, you said that you recognize that a few bad apples in a religion does not make the whole religion bad…yet in this thread, you said your husband rejected Judaism because of a few bad apples in it…and you did nothing to correct his impression, you even ended your statement with a happy face…

I’m not trying to be nosy or violate your privacy; its just that I see too many things here that make me go “hmmm”. I’m sure you understand, in view of your other posts.

Hi, please understand there is no “orthodox” section of the church. If my marriage is OK according to canon law it is OK regardless of what any “orthodox” priest says, and my conscience is clear also, which is also important. What do you mean “favor”? I think the church “favors” us all being saints; does this mean we are? No. It seems difficult for you to accept that they accept my marriage, but they do. I don’t think I need to explain to anyone why I chose my husband; this is not the point.

I ended post with happy face because what I am trying to tell you is that I am live and let live - I am not trying to dictate ANYTHING to him about his religion - he can do what he wants. I will ask my priest about my responsibility in responding to him. You were having a “conversation” with me, so I answered you. He knows that the church has had issues with bribery, etc. You asked what turned him off. I answered literally. If you had asked what turned him off AND he liked better in RC, then answer would be different.

Just one last thing on our rabbi. We had him to please my husband’s parents, and since a priest would have offended them we canceled plans to have both because I like his parents and it is not necessary to have a priest there. To the rabbi, this was not a bad situation to be made the best of. He, like my husband and his parents are truly OK with interfaith marriage, as is RC canon law. One of his parents just has a thing about priests.

 

[Sepharad]

The term “orthodox”, when used with a lower case “o”, does not indicate a denomination or branch of a church.

It refers to those in a church that understand the doctrines traditionally and properly.

 

[RCSoCal]

The term “orthodox”, when used with a lower case “o”, does not indicate a denomination or branch of a church.

It refers to those in a church that understand the doctrines traditionally and properly.

Yes, I know what the difference is. There is no section of the church that understands it more properly. Canon law governs.

 

[Sepharad]

Yes, I know what the difference is. There is no section of the church that understands it more properly. Canon law governs.

Well, I provided a link to a Papal decree about mixed marriages, entitled, Matrimonia Mixta by Pope Paul VI.

You can’t get any more orthodox than a Pope! Did you read it?

catholicdoors.com/misc/marriage/mixed.htm

 

[RCSoCal]

Well, I provided a link to a Papal decree about mixed marriages, entitled, Matrimonia Mixta by Pope Paul VI.

You can’t get any more orthodox than a Pope! Did you read it?

Yes, I did, and my comment is that this is out of date.

Sepahard, it has been fun, but you are not going to convert me or my husband to your views . Reform and secular Jews must be a pain I know. Sorry, I cannot continue to discuss - I have to get to work, but I wish you the best.

 

[Eden]

When did Francis Gajnowski become a “Jewish” man? Not that it matters, but everything I have ever read about the Kolbe case said that Gajnowski was a Polish Catholic man…and Francis Gajnowski is not a Jewish name anyway. FWIW.

If you ever actually read the links that I include in my comments, you wouldn’t need to ask that.

"During the homily Pope Paul VI described the life of Maximilian Kolbe. He was a Polish Franciscan priest who was arrested by Nazis in February of 1941 for publishing unapproved literature. They sentenced him to hard labor at the Auschwitz concentration camp. In August of that same year a prisoner escaped. When he was not recaptured the Nazis took a reprisal. They lined up the other prisoners and picked out ten to die in the starvation bunker. One of the men selected was a farmer named Franciszek Gajowniczek. He was in Auschwitz only because he was Jew. When Franciszek was selected, he cried out, “My wife, my children!”

This is from the same link that I provided earlier:

geocities.com/Heartland/2964/good-fri.html

The author of the article erred. However, the fact that the spared man was in Auschwitz for aiding the Jewish resistance, along with other testimony stating from Jewish witnesses at Auschwitz that St. Maximilian Kolbe was not anti-Semitic makes the defamation of this poor man’s name all the more tasteless.

Per this article here:

consecration.com/antisemite1.html

I’m grateful to see that you have agreed that rolling his name in the mud any longer is uncalled for.