Jewish People and Jesus

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7_Sorrows said:
why is the topic of messianic jews a diversion to this thread? just because you are jewish and do not accept Jesus does not mean that we cannot acknowledge other jewish people who have accepted Jesus as their messiah.
i believe that the covenant between God and His chosen people is very much alive and not “old”. there is an excellent book called Salavation is from the Jews.
the Jewish people who practice Judaism are very obedient to the Torah and their faith.
i don’t think it is part of God’s plan that we forget Judaism and everyone become follower’s of Christ. God’s chosen people still play an important part in the world and contribute so much to art, literature, science, etc.
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To save you going to the first post in the thread and reading it, here’s what it says:

"To all the Jewish people, why do you not believe that Jesus was the Messiah? I just want to know the reasons you don’t believe in Jesus.

Thank you"

He didn’t ask about why Christians believe in Jesus, he asked why we don’t. He didn’t ask for Christian views of Judaism, he didn’t ask about why Jews who become Christians became Christians, he asked why we don’t believe in Jesus.

You can acknowledge whatever you want to acknowledge but it isn’t what was asked.
 
Kaninchen said:
To save you going to the first post in the thread and reading it, here’s what it says:

"To all the Jewish people, why do you not believe that Jesus was the Messiah? I just want to know the reasons you don’t believe in Jesus.

Thank you"

He didn’t ask about why Christians believe in Jesus, he asked why we don’t. He didn’t ask for Christian views of Judaism, he didn’t ask about why Jews who become Christians became Christians, he asked why we don’t believe in Jesus.

You can acknowledge whatever you want to acknowledge but it isn’t what was asked.
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Well? What’s the answer?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
You could be right, although my source does not say so. I certainly would like a little Judaism in my religious experience, since more than half of the Bible is!

Actually, I was watching a PBS show on Judaism, and they said that until about the time of Constantine, Christians would regularily attend Jewish festivals such as Passover, but then a prejudice against Jews began to develop in the Church and Christians were forbidden to attend them.

Seems a shame to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 🤷

Anyway, the source I quoted earlier says that Messainic Jews are Zionists. So they are certainly pro-Israel.
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I’m a bit skeptical on the veracity of this.

Wasn’t the Church actually actively campaigning against the ‘Judaizing’ of the Church? I seem to recall Paul rebuking Peter at a certain point in the epistles to the Galatians because of his association with anti-Gentile Judaizers.

Plus I don’t really see the point in Christians celebrating Passover. We’re not Jews.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
I’m a bit skeptical on the veracity of this.

Wasn’t the Church actually actively campaigning against the ‘Judaizing’ of the Church? I seem to recall Paul rebuking Peter at a certain point in the epistles to the Galatians because of his association with anti-Gentile Judaizers.

Plus I don’t really see the point in Christians celebrating Passover. We’re not Jews.
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Hey there were a lot of Jews who became Christians. Jesus came to the Jews to teach them first. Gentiles came later.

Jesus celebrated all the Jewish festivals, I don’t see why Christians can’t honor them too.

Any way this DVD I saw was called:“Kingdom of David, The Saga of the Israelites”. It had a lot of Jewish scholars in it, so I think it’s pretty true.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Hey there were a lot of Jews who became Christians. Jesus came to the Jews to teach them first. Gentiles came later.

Jesus celebrated all the Jewish festivals, I don’t see why Christians can’t honor them too.

Any way this DVD I saw was called:“Kingdom of David, The Saga of the Israelites”. It had a lot of Jewish scholars in it, so I think it’s pretty true.
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You can honour whoever you wish to honour - but that’s nothing to do with what the original poster asked. I’m sure that if he’d asked something like “Christians why do you think Jews are wrong not to believe in Jesus?” then it would all be relevant but he didn’t.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Now I have, sorry. Well, what do you think of Jesus and his teachings?
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That would rather suppose that I took the New Testament at any kind of face value and I don’t.

Quite a lot of the time he sounds like yet another rabbi engaged in the great tradition of rowing with other rabbis and not being terribly original.
 
Kaninchen said:
You can honour whoever you wish to honour - but that’s nothing to do with what the original poster asked. I’m sure that if he’d asked something like “Christians why do you think Jews are wrong not to believe in Jesus?” then it would all be relevant but he didn’t.
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Okay, sorry if I offended you.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Okay, sorry if I offended you.
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I wasn’t offended, I was just trying to keep the thread on-topic.

Remember, there are only a few of us around and we get these sorts of questions a lot so, when they move off in all sorts of directions, it means a lot of replying to different posters on divergent themes we’ve all dealt with time and again but aren’t what we were asked in the first place.
 
Kaninchen said:
I wasn’t offended, I was just trying to keep the thread on-topic.

Remember, there are only a few of us around and we get these sorts of questions a lot so, when they move off in all sorts of directions, it means a lot of replying to different posters on divergent themes we’ve all dealt with time and again but aren’t what we were asked in the first place.
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Point taken. Where do you live in Europe?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Hey there were a lot of Jews who became Christians. Jesus came to the Jews to teach them first. Gentiles came later.

Jesus celebrated all the Jewish festivals, I don’t see why Christians can’t honor them too.

Any way this DVD I saw was called:“Kingdom of David, The Saga of the Israelites”. It had a lot of Jewish scholars in it, so I think it’s pretty true.
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I don’t personally see a purpose to it.

I’m not an ethnic or religious Jew, so I don’t feel like I should be celebrating Passover, anymore than I think a Jew should celebrate Republic Day on June 2nd in Italy. Our (yours and mine) passover lamb is Jesus Christ, so to celebrate the Jewish passover to me doesn’t make sense. In fact, we have the beautiful hymn that goes “Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis,” - “Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us.”
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
You could be right, although my source does not say so. I certainly would like a little Judaism in my religious experience, since more than half of the Bible is!

Actually, I was watching a PBS show on Judaism, and they said that until about the time of Constantine, Christians would regularily attend Jewish festivals such as Passover, but then a prejudice against Jews began to develop in the Church and Christians were forbidden to attend them.

Seems a shame to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 🤷

Anyway, the source I quoted earlier says that Messainic Jews are Zionists. So they are certainly pro-Israel.
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I didn’t do a poll, but my understanding is that Messianic Jews are themselves divided. Some of them regard themselves mainly as Christians, in particular Protestants, both Evangelical and other varieties, as well as Hebrew Catholics. However, they wish to retain much of the tradition of Judaism. At the same time, there is a sizable number of Messianic Jews who consider themselves Jewish and do not call themselves Christian. Indeed some of them regard themselves as more fully Jewish than those Jews who are not Messianic. The mainstream Jewish community–Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform–may not look at these Messianic Jews as Jewish, but some of the Messianic Jews themselves do. Just as Quakers, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all (for the most part) consider themselves Christians even though mainstream Christianity may not.
 
meltzerboy said:
I didn’t do a poll, but my understanding is that Messianic Jews are themselves divided. Some of them regard themselves mainly as Christians, in particular Protestants, both Evangelical and other varieties, as well as Hebrew Catholics. However, they wish to retain much of the tradition of Judaism. At the same time, there is a sizable number of Messianic Jews who consider themselves Jewish and do not call themselves Christian. Indeed some of them regard themselves as more fully Jewish than those Jews who are not Messianic. The mainstream Jewish community–Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform–may not look at these Messianic Jews as Jewish, but some of the Messianic Jews themselves do. Just as Quakers, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, and Jehovah’s Witnesses all (for the most part) consider themselves Christians even though mainstream Christianity may not.
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👍 good job of explaining this!
 
Kaninchen said:
To save you going to the first post in the thread and reading it, here’s what it says:

"To all the Jewish people, why do you not believe that Jesus was the Messiah? I just want to know the reasons you don’t believe in Jesus.

Thank you"

He didn’t ask about why Christians believe in Jesus, he asked why we don’t. He didn’t ask for Christian views of Judaism, he didn’t ask about why Jews who become Christians became Christians, he asked why we don’t believe in Jesus.

You can acknowledge whatever you want to acknowledge but it isn’t what was asked.
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okay, but there are also many people who are not aware that there are Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah. he says “too all the Jewish people”. as if every Jewish person on our planet rejects Jesus as the Messiah. i was simply pointing out a fact that there are some Jews who do believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
this is not off topic.
 
7_Sorrows said:
okay, but there are also many people who are not aware that there are Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah. he says “too all the Jewish people”. as if every Jewish person on our planet rejects Jesus as the Messiah. i was simply pointing out a fact that there are some Jews who do believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
this is not off topic.
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It is off-topic because he didn’t ask about why Christians believed in Jesus. If a Hindu converts to Catholicism, he’s not a ‘Messianic Hindu’ is he? ‘Messianic Jew’ is a Christian brand name accepted by you but not by Jews.
 
Vouthon said:
Paul’s Letter to the Romans

Chapter 9

1 I tell the truth in Messiah—I do not lie, my conscience assuring me in the Ruach ha-Kodesh— 2 that my sorrow is great and the anguish in my heart unending. 3 For I would pray that I myself were banished from Messiah for the sake of my people—my own flesh and blood, 4 who are Israelites. To them belong the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the Torah, and the avodah, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs—and from them, according to the flesh, the Messiah, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.
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According to Islam this letter makes no sense sorry to say. Because follower of Moses on many occation reject or disobey Prophet Moses. That’s why no more covenants with Israelites.
 
Kaninchen said:
It is off-topic because he didn’t ask about why Christians believed in Jesus. If a Hindu converts to Catholicism, he’s not a ‘Messianic Hindu’ is he? ‘Messianic Jew’ is a Christian brand name accepted by you but not by Jews.
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frankly, i don’t know what you call a Hindu who converts to Catholicism, nor do i care.
the term Messianic Jew is not a “brand” name.
why don’t you answer the OP’s question instead of arguing about everything?
 
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