Jewish salvation beliefs

[aball1035]

What do Jews believe about salvation? Is it more or less the same as Catholicism? Can only Jews get to Heaven?

 

[meltzerboy]

What do Jews believe about salvation? Is it more or less the same as Catholicism? Can only Jews get to Heaven?

Jews don’t often use the term salvation; sometimes they speak of redemption. The belief in Judaism is that we humans have nothing to be saved from since there is no belief in original sin, and therefore we do not need a Savior. But each individual must atone for their own sins, mainly through prayer to G-d, making amends to our fellow human beings, and sincere good deeds. Jews are not preoccupied with Heaven and Hell, but instead focus on the here and now and leading good lives on Earth in keeping with the guidelines of the Torah Law. They do NOT believe that only Jews can go to Heaven; on the contrary, anyone who leads a moral life based on the Noahide Law can have a place in Heaven.

 

[Bezant]

What do Jews believe about salvation? Is it more or less the same as Catholicism? Can only Jews get to Heaven?

There are many different Jewish views of the afterlife, therefore may be a bit difficult to understand if you’re coming from a Christian perspective.

The answer to your first question is, kinda-yes, kinda-no. There’s no concept of an eternal hell, an evil Satan or of sin as a spiritual state requiring a saviour, but there is a concept like purgatory.

The answer to your second question is no. At least from an Orthodox perspective, it’s more difficult for a Jew to merit a reward in the afterlife than a non-Jew. That’s because that reward is merited according to how committed he was to the commandments of his particular covenant. Non-Jews are bound to the 7 laws of the Noahide Covenant, but Jews are bound to the 613 laws of the Sinai Covenant, which is more difficult to keep.

 

[aball1035]

therefore we do not need a Savior.

Meltzerboy, thank you for your help. I thought Jews were waiting for a savior? Or is this the distinction from which the different types of Judaism stem (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc.)?

 

[meltzerboy]

Meltzerboy, thank you for your help. I thought Jews were waiting for a savior? Or is this the distinction from which the different types of Judaism stem (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc.)?

Most Jews (not all) of all types are waiting for the Messiah, not a Savior. The Messiah has other great tasks to perform, but salvation is not one of them.

 

[Bezant]

Meltzerboy, thank you for your help. I thought Jews were waiting for a savior? Or is this the distinction from which the different types of Judaism stem (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc.)?

As another Jewish poster on this forum has pointed out, from a Jewish perspective, there was nothing that ever required a saviour in the first place. I think you mean Jews are waiting for the messiah, which in itself means many different things across and within the streams of Judaism, but not a saviour in the Christian sense of delivering mankind from an otherwise un-removable sin.

 

[JJsaint]

What do Jews believe about salvation? Is it more or less the same as Catholicism? Can only Jews get to Heaven?

The Jews consider themselves the messiah according to the Babylonian Talmud.(Read below)

Although some Jews look for a War Lord type of individual to help place Jewry on the throne of the World, the actual view of Judaism is that the Jewish people themselves comprise the Messiah, and their reign is the Messianic reign (actually foretold for Christ in the Bible). The tribulation foretold to precede the reign of Christ, in which Satanism strives to subdue the world, is scoffed at by the Talmud and called “fictitious.” Babylonian power will not fall, says Judaism. The tribulation will be but “the throes of mother Zion which is in labor to bring forth the Messiah — without metaphor, the Jewish people.” (See Exhibit 147, from the Talmud, Kethuboth 111a) In other words, to call the Jewish people the Messiah is no metaphor; they are literally just that; they are the “Messiah,” says the Talmud.

[H]; 'but the more correct reading is [H] (Moore, G.F., Judaism II 361, n. 2). [H] ‘frequent in modern Christian books is fictitious’ (loc. cit.). The ‘sufferings’ or ‘travail’ are more fully described in Sanh. 97b, Sonc. ed. p. 654. These are the ‘throes of mother Zion which is in labor to bring forth the Messiah — without metaphor, the Jewish people’ (Moore, loc. cit. text).

• Note 52 from Kethuboth 111a

halakhah.com/kethuboth/kethuboth_111.html

 

[chosen_people]

Judaism teaches that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the world to come as they have only to follow the seven Noahide commandments. Judaism therefore is a true universal religion. You do not have to be born a Jew or accept Judaism for redemption. In the book of Yonah (Jonah) we see Jonah being sent by God to a foreign place for the redemption of a Gentile city which is in fact granted redemption (Christians seem to miss the point of this book). There is one God and He is the God of all and we are His children. We can therefore see why it is neither necessary or desirable to encourage conversion to Judaism though Judaism allows and fully accepts converts.

The Jewish people have been chosen by God to fulfill special missions. God chose the Jewish people to be His servant, His witness (Isaiah 43:10)'to be a light unto the nations as examples of ethics and holiness and to lead the world back to God (Exodus 19:6 and Isaiah 42:6) and to bring the Messiah ben David into the world (Jeremiah 23:5, 1 Chronicles 17:11-12).

There is no concept in Judaism that faith in the Messiah ben David leads to personal salvation. There is not a single verse in the Torah or prophets that states or implies that belief in the Messiah ben David is required for or related to personal salvation. The salvation program for Jews is to love God, fear God and keep His commandments.

Every Jew has a portion in the world to come. According to Maimonides there are fourteen ways a Jew may lose his portion in the world to come. While Christianity does not constitute idolatry for Gentiles, any Jew who adopts Christian beliefs and concepts of God, is cut off forever from God and the Jewish people. You can therefore understand why on the one hand we do not feel the need to convert non Jews but on the other the attempt to convert a Jew and cause him to break the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, to cause him to be forever caught off from God and the Jewish people, is repugnant to us.

The Jewish prophets have explicitly stated,that in the Messianic Era, Gentiles will stop being blinded to the truth and realize they have inherited falsehood:

"Hashem (God) my Strength, my Stronghold and my Refuge on the day of distress! To You (God) nations will come from the ends of the earth and say: "It was all falsehood that our ancestors inherited, futility that has no purpose. Can a man make gods for himself - they are not gods! (Jeremiah 16:19-20)
יט יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי, וּמְנוּסִי–בְּיוֹם צָרָה; אֵלֶיךָ, גּוֹיִם יָבֹאוּ מֵאַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ, וְיֹאמְרוּ אַךְ-שֶׁקֶר נָחֲלוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, הֶבֶל וְאֵין-בָּם מוֹעִיל.
כ הֲיַעֲשֶׂה-לּוֹ אָדָם, אֱלֹהִים; וְהֵמָּה, לֹא אֱלֹהִים.

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת

 

[John7]

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת

quite a big difference…

Luke 2
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [Jesus Christ],
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light [Jesus Christ], to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory [Jesus Christ], of thy people Israel. (from: Is 42.6 & 49.6)

Isa 42:6 “…for a light [Jesus Christ] of the Gentiles.”
Is 49.6 “…I will also give thee [Jesus Christ] for a light to the Gentiles, that thou [Jesus Christ] mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.”

Mat 4
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light [Jesus Christ]; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death, light [Jesus Christ] is sprung up. (from: Is 9.2)
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light [Jesus Christ]: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light [Jesus Christ] shined.

 

[meltzerboy]

quite a big difference…

Luke 2
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation [Jesus Christ],
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light [Jesus Christ], to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory [Jesus Christ], of thy people Israel. (from: Is 42.6 & 49.6)

Isa 42:6 “…for a light [Jesus Christ] of the Gentiles.”
Is 49.6 “…I will also give thee [Jesus Christ] for a light to the Gentiles, that thou [Jesus Christ] mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.”

Mat 4
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light [Jesus Christ]; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death, light [Jesus Christ] is sprung up. (from: Is 9.2)
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light [Jesus Christ]: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light [Jesus Christ] shined.

It appears that our somewhat different conception of G-d is, literally, in the details. And therein hangs a tale.

 

[maplebug55]

do jewish people have peace about where their loved ones go when they die?
as a christian, I know I will see my loved ones again…some day…hopefully anyway.

 

[meltzerboy]

Judaism teaches that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the world to come as they have only to follow the seven Noahide commandments. Judaism therefore is a true universal religion. You do not have to be born a Jew or accept Judaism for redemption. In the book of Yonah (Jonah) we see Jonah being sent by God to a foreign place for the redemption of a Gentile city which is in fact granted redemption (Christians seem to miss the point of this book). There is one God and He is the God of all and we are His children. We can therefore see why it is neither necessary or desirable to encourage conversion to Judaism though Judaism allows and fully accepts converts.

The Jewish people have been chosen by God to fulfill special missions. God chose the Jewish people to be His servant, His witness (Isaiah 43:10)'to be a light unto the nations as examples of ethics and holiness and to lead the world back to God (Exodus 19:6 and Isaiah 42:6) and to bring the Messiah ben David into the world (Jeremiah 23:5, 1 Chronicles 17:11-12).

There is no concept in Judaism that faith in the Messiah ben David leads to personal salvation. There is not a single verse in the Torah or prophets that states or implies that belief in the Messiah ben David is required for or related to personal salvation. The salvation program for Jews is to love God, fear God and keep His commandments.

Every Jew has a portion in the world to come. According to Maimonides there are fourteen ways a Jew may lose his portion in the world to come. While Christianity does not constitute idolatry for Gentiles, any Jew who adopts Christian beliefs and concepts of God, is cut off forever from God and the Jewish people. You can therefore understand why on the one hand we do not feel the need to convert non Jews but on the other the attempt to convert a Jew and cause him to break the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, to cause him to be forever caught off from God and the Jewish people, is repugnant to us.

The Jewish prophets have explicitly stated,that in the Messianic Era, Gentiles will stop being blinded to the truth and realize they have inherited falsehood:

"Hashem (God) my Strength, my Stronghold and my Refuge on the day of distress! To You (God) nations will come from the ends of the earth and say: "It was all falsehood that our ancestors inherited, futility that has no purpose. Can a man make gods for himself - they are not gods! (Jeremiah 16:19-20)
יט יְהוָה עֻזִּי וּמָעֻזִּי, וּמְנוּסִי–בְּיוֹם צָרָה; אֵלֶיךָ, גּוֹיִם יָבֹאוּ מֵאַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ, וְיֹאמְרוּ אַךְ-שֶׁקֶר נָחֲלוּ אֲבוֹתֵינוּ, הֶבֶל וְאֵין-בָּם מוֹעִיל.
כ הֲיַעֲשֶׂה-לּוֹ אָדָם, אֱלֹהִים; וְהֵמָּה, לֹא אֱלֹהִים.

{In the Messianic Era} “Nations will walk by your [the Jewish People’s] light and kings by the brilliance of your shine” Isaiah 60:3
וְהָלְכוּ גוֹיִם, לְאוֹרֵךְ; וּמְלָכִים, לְנֹגַהּ זַרְחֵךְ.

"I will set you [the Jewish People] for a covenant to the people, for a light to the nations, to open blind eyes Isaiah 42:6-7
וְאֶתֶּנְךָ לִבְרִית עָם–לְאוֹר גּוֹיִם.
לִפְקֹחַ, עֵינַיִם עִוְרוֹת

Isn’t it the case, or at least debatable, that forced, involuntary converts from Judaism to another religion are NOT cut off from Judaism and the Jewish people, that is, so-called “anusim”? Saving one’s earthly life is not preferable or permissible if it means idolatry (hence Jewish martyrdom); however, if one does choose the former in instances of conversion, is there no leniency so long as one does not convert inwardly? I also question whether anyone–Jew, Gentile, or convert–is IRREVERSIBLY cut off from G-d according to Jewish teaching.

 

[meltzerboy]

do jewish people have peace about where their loved ones go when they die?
as a christian, I know I will see my loved ones again…some day…hopefully anyway.

Yes, Jews who trust in the mercy and justice of G-d believe in a resurrection and afterlife according to Pharisaic tradition, as is stated among the Thirteen Articles of Faith by Maimonides. We also pray to G-d for the atonement and purification of our loved ones in purgatory for a period of 11 months.

 

[chosen_people]

Isn’t it the case, or at least debatable, that forced, involuntary converts from Judaism to another religion are NOT cut off from Judaism and the Jewish people, that is, so-called “anusim”? Saving one’s earthly life is not preferable or permissible if it means idolatry (hence Jewish martyrdom); however, if one does choose the former in instances of conversion, is there no leniency so long as one does not convert inwardly? I also question whether anyone–Jew, Gentile, or convert–is IRREVERSIBLY cut off from G-d according to Jewish teaching.

You are quite correct that there is an exception for אנוסים - anusim i.e. Jews that ostensibly adopt another religion under pain of death but remain loyal to Judaism and do their up most under the circumstances to continue to practice Judaism.

The punishment of being cut off forever from the Jewish people and from God is the divine punishment of כרת (karet) (kareth) (kores).

 

[Robbinson]

Most Jews (not all) of all types are waiting for the Messiah, not a Savior. The Messiah has other great tasks to perform, but salvation is not one of them.

I largely agree with what you wrote meltzerboy (as usual in terms of your summary of jewish thought) in your earlier post and this reply and certainly rabbinic judaism today avoids reference to “saviour” when talking of the messiah - although one wonders if that is perhaps partly a reaction to christianity

The fact is that the Hebrew word moshi’a appears numerous times in the Hebrew scriptures (and this means savior/deliverer) and mostly referring to those other than God. See judges 3:9 (praying for a savior, deliverer) and Isaiah 19:20 (a promised savior from Egypt).

I do think that even traditional expectations (although there were varying expectations) of the messiah was one who would be a deliverer or savior.

As you and others have pointed out - the coming of the messiah has been (and for many jews remains) a central principle of judaism (one of Maimonides core principles). In that respect at least, “faith” in the messiah is a part of salvation for jews one could say I think.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[meltzerboy]

You are quite correct that there is an exception for אנוסים - anusim i.e. Jews that ostensibly adopt another religion under pain of death but remain loyal to Judaism and do their up most under the circumstances to continue to practice Judaism.

The punishment of being cut off forever from the Jewish people and from God is the divine punishment of כרת (karet) (kareth) (kores).

However, even kareth may be reversed, whether by public repentance, inner private repentance, restitution, charity, or good deeds, depending on the offense and circumstances. This is discussed by rabbis in the Babylonian Talmud and elsewhere.

 

[Kaninchen]

I do think that even traditional expectations (although there were varying expectations) of the messiah was one who would be a deliverer or savior.

From what, exactly?

 

[Robbinson]

From what, exactly?

There were/are various expecations.

Some were expecting a military leader to deliver Israel from oppression by its occupiers (this was the prevailing though of the leadership of Isarel at the time of Yeshua)

Some were expecting the messiah to usher in a period of spiritual rebirth/awakening (this is closer to Christian thought - although not exactly)

Granted - the concept of the messiah being divine or being himself a source of spiritual rebirth was not defined in jewish thought (at least as far we can tell from Talmud or other sources). However, the messiah was believed (per scripture) to have some “divine” attributes (being from of old, from the time of creation) and books of wisdom talk about “wisdom” (often personified) existing from the time of creation.

I’m not suggesting that belief in the messiah as a “savior” in terms of salvation was a well defined or mainstream thought in judaism before Yeshua, but by the same token, there was an expectation among many that the messiah would be a deliverer with divine attributes - a unquiely annointed one - perhaps the “prophet” fortold of by moses.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Kaninchen]

There were/are various expecations.

Some were expecting a military leader to deliver Israel from oppression by its occupiers (this was the prevailing though of the leadership of Isarel at the time of Yeshua)

Some were expecting the messiah to usher in a period of spiritual rebirth/awakening (this is closer to Christian thought - although not exactly)

Granted - the concept of the messiah being divine or being himself a source of spiritual rebirth was not defined in jewish thought (at least as far we can tell from Talmud or other sources). However, the messiah was believed (per scripture) to have some “divine” attributes (being from of old, from the time of creation) and books of wisdom talk about “wisdom” (often personified) existing from the time of creation.

I’m not suggesting that belief in the messiah as a “savior” in terms of salvation was a well defined or mainstream thought in judaism before Yeshua, but by the same token, there was an expectation among many that the messiah would be a deliverer with divine attributes - a unquiely annointed one - perhaps the “prophet” fortold of by moses.

Blessings,

Brian

Would you like to be a bit more precise about your use of words like ‘some’ and ‘many’ here? It seems to me that you’re using them to weave a pattern that suits your purpose out of ideas - which, even supposing that they are as you describe rather than just taking vague parallels and making them fit, you’re using in a way that tends to make fringe groups of the Jewish People in a time of huge crisis appear normative.

Yet again, salvation from what?

 

[Robbinson]

Would you like to be a bit more precise about your use of words like ‘some’ and ‘many’ here? It seems to me that you’re using them to weave a pattern that suits your purpose out of ideas - which, even supposing that they are as you describe rather than just taking vague parallels and making them fit, you’re using in a way that tends to make fringe groups of the Jewish People in a time of huge crisis appear normative.

Yet again, salvation from what?

I was as precise as possible and careful to express what were expectations, and what were not (as far as we can tell) in responding to the idea of the messiah as a “savior” or deliverer. I believe I acknowledged in my prior posts that I was not suggesting there was a defined jewish idea of “savior” in terms of salvation (eternal life with God - to answer your last question) - then again, jewish ideas of the messiah were and are varied and not always in harmony.

I do have a perspective as a believer - clearly - but I do try to be objective. Its something we all need to work hard on as its human nature to advocate for what we believe in.

Blessings,

Brian