Jewish Salvation

[loko]

Israel Anton Zoller may be deemed to be a good Catholic but he was he was very bad Jew from every perspective. He changed his name to Zolli so it would sound more Italian. His views toward Zionism changed according to whatever he judged to be the dominant popular trend at the moment. He received advanced warning of the planned Nazi action against the Jewish community. Instead of warning the Jewish community and as Chief Rabbi standing with them and leading the community, he abandoned them and ran off to hide in the Vatican. He negligently did not destroy the registry of the Jewish community in his procession. As a result it fell into Nazi hands facilitating the roundup of Rome’s Jews to the gas chambers. With the liberation of Rome he emerged from hiding in the Vatican thinking he would resume his duties as Chief Rabbi as if nothing had happened. Rebuffed by the surviving Jews in the community, who refused to let him resume his duties as Chief Rabbi, he responded by converting to Catholicism (an act which in Judaism cuts him off forever from God and the Jewish people).

Depends which version of history you choose to believe.

After the arrival of the Nazis in Rome, he gave himself heart and soul to hiding Jews in order to save their lives, thanks to the collaboration offered to him by Vatican institutions and, in particular, by Pius XII.

Ugo Foa, president of the Jewish community in Rome during that time, did not share the Rabbi’s fears and considered Zolli’s warnings about the Nazis to be alarmist.

As Chief Rabbi of Rome, this man offered himself as a hostage to the Nazi forces then occupying the city if they would release several hundred of his fellow Jews. Was that the conduct of a coward? Wasn’t it the action of a practical-minded, self-sacrificing pastor?

His conversion came after 13years of serious study, prior to and including the war years. He did not convert until after the end of the war. Rabbis of the Orthodox Jewish faith do not convert to Christianity light-heartedly.

As was to be expected, the announcement caused a great stir in Jewish religious circles. Overnight, the once venerated, learned Rabbi who had offered his life for “sheep,” became to some an ignoramus, and to all a heretic and traitor. The Synagogue of Rome proclaimed a several days’ fast in atonement for Zolli’s defection, and mourned him as dead, while at the same time they denounced him as a meschumad (apostate, one struck by God) and excommunicated him.

I would argue that his first name ‘Israel’ tells us all we need to know about his origins.

All the difference between the religious beliefs of devout Jews and Catholics hinges on one question: “Is this Jesus whom the whole world worships as God really the Messiah whose coming was foretold by the Jewish prophets of the Old Law?”

Any Catholic who stubbornly denies Jesus is the Son of God will be excommunicated from the Church and in danger of eternal punishment in hell, unless he retracts. Conversely, a Jew who professes Jesus is the Messiah, will be cast out of the Synagogue as Zolli was. Orthodox Jews of today believe their own ancient doctrines as completely and firmly as Catholics hold to the teachings of the Church.

Zolli’s daughter, who did not convert, asserted in defense of her father, “I don’t feel that my father’s conversion was a betrayal of the Jews. The fact that he could spend 40 years teaching Judaism proves the profound connection between the two religions.” Zolli himself said sadly, “I continue to maintain unchanged all my love for the people of Israel; and in my sorrow for the lot that has befallen them, I shall never stop loving the Jews. I did not abandon the Jews by becoming a Catholic.”

 

[jam070406]

Actually, ecumenism existed since 1219. It began with the erection of the Franciscan Province of Jerusalem, which later became the Custody of the Holy Land under the direction of the Franciscans, but independent of a Minister Provincial, it answers directly to the Holy Father.

The mission given to the friars who traveled there was to protect the holy sites, minister to Christians, practice the corporal works of mercy toward Christians, Jews and Muslims, engage the Jews and Muslims in dialogue, but refrain from proselytizing to them. However, they were not to hide the Christian faith or their vocation to the Gospel Life. They were to live it publicly and to answer with truth when asked. The were to avoid all arguments and confrontations with Muslims, Jews and Eastern Orthodox when these later arrived. They were to create cooperative works that benefit the poor of whatever religious belief they might be.

Fast forward to the 15th century Spain. Again, the Franciscans were sent to southern Spain to buffer the conflicts between the Catholics on one side and the Jews and Muslims on the other. They were to broker agreements that allowed the three faiths to co-exist harmoniously with justice for all three. They were to preach against aggression and violence. They were to give witness to the Gospel and to catechize only the willing.

Right behind them, as was customary, the Dominicans arrived to teach the faith. In keeping with the mandate of St. Dominic, they were not to force the Christian faith on the non-Christians, but make it available. They were, however, to teach anyone who asked to be taught the faith, to strengthen the education of the clergy and the laity alike.

St Vincent Ferrer preached to and converted many Jews.

 

[chosen_people]

Depends which version of history you choose to believe.

After the arrival of the Nazis in Rome, he gave himself heart and soul to hiding Jews in order to save their lives, thanks to the collaboration offered to him by Vatican institutions and, in particular, by Pius XII.

Ugo Foa, president of the Jewish community in Rome during that time, did not share the Rabbi’s fears and considered Zolli’s warnings about the Nazis to be alarmist.

As Chief Rabbi of Rome, this man offered himself as a hostage to the Nazi forces then occupying the city if they would release several hundred of his fellow Jews. Was that the conduct of a coward? Wasn’t it the action of a practical-minded, self-sacrificing pastor?

His conversion came after 13years of serious study, prior to and including the war years. He did not convert until after the end of the war. Rabbis of the Orthodox Jewish faith do not convert to Christianity light-heartedly.

As was to be expected, the announcement caused a great stir in Jewish religious circles. Overnight, the once venerated, learned Rabbi who had offered his life for “sheep,” became to some an ignoramus, and to all a heretic and traitor. The Synagogue of Rome proclaimed a several days’ fast in atonement for Zolli’s defection, and mourned him as dead, while at the same time they denounced him as a meschumad (apostate, one struck by God) and excommunicated him.

I would argue that his first name ‘Israel’ tells us all we need to know about his origins.

All the difference between the religious beliefs of devout Jews and Catholics hinges on one question: “Is this Jesus whom the whole world worships as God really the Messiah whose coming was foretold by the Jewish prophets of the Old Law?”

Any Catholic who stubbornly denies Jesus is the Son of God will be excommunicated from the Church and in danger of eternal punishment in hell, unless he retracts. Conversely, a Jew who professes Jesus is the Messiah, will be cast out of the Synagogue as Zolli was. Orthodox Jews of today believe their own ancient doctrines as completely and firmly as Catholics hold to the teachings of the Church.

Zolli’s daughter, who did not convert, asserted in defense of her father, “I don’t feel that my father’s conversion was a betrayal of the Jews. The fact that he could spend 40 years teaching Judaism proves the profound connection between the two religions.” Zolli himself said sadly, “I continue to maintain unchanged all my love for the people of Israel; and in my sorrow for the lot that has befallen them, I shall never stop loving the Jews. I did not abandon the Jews by becoming a Catholic.”

Well he did give himself heart and soul to saving himself and his family. Unfortunately, almost all of Rome’s Jews were marched out passed the Vatican to their deaths in Nazi gas chambers, with few survivors. Zolli met with two Jewish U.S. army chaplains a few days after his formal conversion and their reports were of a person who had converted through spite. Indeed, there are Catholic sources that Zolli offered himself as a hostage, however I know of no known independent sources for this claim, which hardly sits with what is known of his less than heroic behavior.

 

[jam070406]

I believe that this is very true

I just picked up on what may be confusing you. Two things:

1. The wording of the old prayer was very harsh. It was changed to reflect what the Church really wants, which is to see the Jews recognize Christ as the Messiah. This is conversion.
2. Notice what I bolded in red. The Church has never said that she does not want the Jews to convert. She is saying that she will not support or tolerate an organized effort to convert the Jews. And the current statement points to what the Protestants do when they go out to pull Catholics into their churches.

The Church finds that method of “missionary work” (observe quotations) to be very inappropriate, especially when applied to Jews. It treats them as if they were hopeless souls. Which is not the case. God has not forgotten his promise to save Israel. Somehow, someway, and someday, God will bring home those Jews who want to come home. It can be at the hour of their death or at the Second Coming. We just don’t know. We only know that God keeps his promises.

Thank you. The only problem is that if you think that I’m wrong, then you must think that the Holy See is also wrong, because I’m only repeating what the Holy See has said.

Absolutely

I don’t disagree with the Holy See. You keep equating preaching with forced conversion.
The Church has never condoned forced conversion. That is not what anyone is saying.
But that does not negate the Church’s mission to preach the Gospel. The reason people are confused by your words is because you seem to promote some idea of a universal salvation. It’s the same concept that the atheist poster pointed out with modern day Ecumenism, that liberals have run wild with.

 

[loko]

Well he did give himself heart and soul to saving himself and his family. Unfortunately, almost all of Rome’s Jews were marched out passed the Vatican to their deaths in Nazi gas chambers, with few survivors. Zolli met with two Jewish U.S. army chaplains a few days after his formal conversion and their reports were of a person who had converted through spite. Indeed, there are Catholic sources that Zolli offered himself as a hostage, however I know of no known independent sources for this claim, which hardly sits with what is known of his less than heroic behavior.

Are you suggesting that because the reports are Catholic they are unreliable?

The same could be said about the Jewish sources on him.

What would you have the Rabbi do when the president and council of the Jewish population in Rome did not believe him when he warned them about the Nazis?

Should he have sacrificed himself and his young family?

You and I were not there…what would we have done when facing that horror?

It’s easy to live now in freedom and point the finger.