Jewish views of the Afterlife

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I have been reading the book “Jewish Views of the Afterlife” by Rabbi Simcha Paull Raphael. It seems to me that Jews used to have a similar view of the afterlife to Catholics.

Why don’t I hear modern Jews speaking about the afterlife and judgement in these terms?

In the Talmud you find these examples:
  • If a man counts money from his hand into the hand of a woman so as to have the opportunity of gazing at her, even if he can vie in Torah and good deeds with Moses our teacher, he shall not escape the punishment of Gehenna. (Berakhot 61a).
  • If the person who comes before God has [knowledge of] Torah in hand, but none of Mishnah, God turns his face away from him, whereupon the wardens of Gehenna overpower him like wolves of the steppe, fall upon him, and fling him into its midsts. (Midrash on Proverbs 10:17)
Here are some Mideval Midrashes from Masekhet Hibbut Ha-Kever— “Tractate of the Pangs of the Grave”:

    • Rabbi Eliezer’s pupils asked him, “What judgment is there in the grave?” He replied, “When a man quits this world, the Angel of Death comes to him and sits by his grave, and beating it with his hands, says, Tell me your name.’ ‘Flesh and blood is my name. It is revealed and known to Him who said, and the world was. But I do not know what my name is.’ Then immediately the soul reenters his body. He stands up and is brought to judgment.”
    • Rabbi Joshua ben Levi says, "They bring a chain of iron, half of it burning like fire, half as cold as ice, and they beat him with it. At the first stroke his limbs get separated; at the second, his bones are scattered. Then the ministering angels gather them together, and restoring him, beat him a third time, and demand of him an account and reckoning, and judge him measure for measure.
    • "On ,the second day they judge him in the same manner.
    • “On the third day they judge him further, and they punish his two eyes, his two hands, his two feet and his two ears, his mouth and his tongue. Why are his eyes punished? Because he looked with them upon transgression. Why his ears? Because he heard sinful utterances with them. Why his lips? Because he uttered with them words of foolishness. And why his tongue? Because he has testified falsely with it. Why his two hands? He committed violence and robbery with them. Why his two legs? Because he hastened with them to transgression.” Rabbi Yehudah says, “Whoever has gone to a married woman shall hang ignominiously in Gehinnom; and whoever slanders his neighbor shall be suspended by his tongue.”
 
Hmmm, :hmmm: I’ve been rather, interested in this subject myself. Thanks for posting!

God bless :byzsoc:

David
 
I once heard a Rabbi say that afterlife is a secondary concern; that the important matter is how persons are to relate to God through keeping the law. This is a major difference between Judaism and Christianity, and is probably why not much is said in Judaism about human eschatology.

I noticed in your quotations that they use the term “Gehenna,” as our LORD did. My understanding is that in Judaism, Gehenna is not perceived as forever, although our LORD taught that it was. Does the book say anything about that?

ICXC NIKA
 
Your Mileage May Vary depending on the flavor of Judaism. Your likely to find serious discussion about punishment in the afterlife from those within some kind of Orthodoxy.
 
I see some similarities with the teaching of Jesus.
Hail_Linus said:
In the Talmud you find these examples:
  • If a man counts money from his hand into the hand of a woman so as to have the opportunity of gazing at her, even if he can vie in Torah and good deeds with Moses our teacher, he shall not escape the punishment of Gehenna. (Berakhot 61a).
  • If the person who comes before God has [knowledge of] Torah in hand, but none of Mishnah, God turns his face away from him, whereupon the wardens of Gehenna overpower him like wolves of the steppe, fall upon him, and fling him into its midsts. (Midrash on Proverbs 10:17)
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The two examples above seem similar to the verses below from the Gospel of Matthew:
  • Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
  • Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Hail_Linus said:
    • Rabbi Eliezer’s pupils asked him, “What judgment is there in the grave?” He replied, “When a man quits this world, the Angel of Death comes to him and sits by his grave, and beating it with his hands, says, Tell me your name.’ ‘Flesh and blood is my name. It is revealed and known to Him who said, and the world was. But I do not know what my name is.’ Then immediately the soul reenters his body. He stands up and is brought to judgment.”
    • Rabbi Joshua ben Levi says, "They bring a chain of iron, half of it burning like fire, half as cold as ice, and they beat him with it. At the first stroke his limbs get separated; at the second, his bones are scattered. Then the ministering angels gather them together, and restoring him, beat him a third time, and demand of him an account and reckoning, and judge him measure for measure.
    • "On ,the second day they judge him in the same manner.
    • “On the third day they judge him further, and they punish his two eyes, his two hands, his two feet and his two ears, his mouth and his tongue. Why are his eyes punished? Because he looked with them upon transgression. Why his ears? Because he heard sinful utterances with them. Why his lips? Because he uttered with them words of foolishness. And why his tongue? Because he has testified falsely with it. Why his two hands? He committed violence and robbery with them. Why his two legs? Because he hastened with them to transgression.” Rabbi Yehudah says, “Whoever has gone to a married woman shall hang ignominiously in Gehinnom; and whoever slanders his neighbor shall be suspended by his tongue.”
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  1. This excerpt from the “Tractate of the Pangs of the Grave” reminds me of Matthew 5:29 “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.”
 
GEddie said:
I once heard a Rabbi say that afterlife is a secondary concern; that the important matter is how persons are to relate to God through keeping the law. This is a major difference between Judaism and Christianity, and is probably why not much is said in Judaism about human eschatology.

I noticed in your quotations that they use the term “Gehenna,” as our LORD did. My understanding is that in Judaism, Gehenna is not perceived as forever, although our LORD taught that it was. Does the book say anything about that?

ICXC NIKA
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I’ll see what else I can find about a person’s duration in Gehenna. This is a very scholarly written book that is about 500 pages long.
 
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There are many concepts which are alluded to in the Written Law but were only recorded fully in subsequent writings. This does not mean that they are any less G‑d’s word. G‑d, in his unfathomable wisdom, decided that they be recorded that way.

Reincarnation is one such concept. Allow me to share just a few places where reincarnation is alluded to in the Written Torah…
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GEddie said:
I noticed in your quotations that they use the term “Gehenna,” as our LORD did. My understanding is that in Judaism, Gehenna is not perceived as forever, although our LORD taught that it was. Does the book say anything about that?

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
The meaning of Gehenna seems to fluctuate and is sometimes synonymous with Sheol. However, currently it seems to be equivalent to purgatory for Orthodox and Conservative Jews. It lasts for one year but I have not figured out when that tradition started. Interestingly I recently saw a documentary of the band Rush (I’m a big fan) and the Bass player Geddy Lee mentioned how his father had died when he 12 years old and he had to go to the synagogue every day for a year.

Around 300 B.C. an understanding of the afterlife similar to Catholicism began to develop in Judaism. By the time Christ came it was well established. There are three books of Enoch. The second one in particular is very interesting. The letter of Jude is essentially a brief summary of this book. Furthermore it describes different levels of heaven. One level is what we would call Hell, permanent torture for the truly wicked. Then there is a higher level that is basically identical to the description of the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man in Luke. In other words it has two section. One part is was a pleasant place like the bosom of Abraham described in Luke and a place of torment like the place where the rich man is. Unlike like the other level which is permanent Hell, this place seems to be a purgatory for the unrighteous. Then there is another level which seems to be the part that Jesus opened. Then there is the most high level which seems people will reach in the General Judgement/Resurrection.

In other words, Christians did not invent a disease and provide a cure as someone mentioned. Whether all Jews accepted this is another issue, but this does show that many Jews did believe this.

Furthermore, it seems Jewish views of the afterlife seem to be very similar to Christians until after medieval times. The Rabbi who wrote this book believes it was a result of being fed up from persecution from Christians and that Christians were always talking about Hell.

He then claims that after the Holocaust Jews became more concerned about living a wholesome life on the earth and stopped thinking about the after life.

Do any Jews here have any insights on these matters?
 
You need to understand that ANCIENT Judaism (Judaism before Christ), and MODERN Judaism (the Judaism which the Pharisees developed as a reaction to Christianity) are very different.

At the time of the destruction of the Second Temple (70 AD), there were numerous sects of Jews, but the only one that survived was the Pharisees, who were the forerunners of today’s Orthodox Judaism.

They redesigned Judaism primarily as a reaction against the Christianity of the Second Temple period, which had been wildly successful at converting Jews to a belief in Jesus.

Consequently, many of modern Judaism’s beliefs were designed as a response to Christianity. For example:

Modern rabbis teach that Isaiah 53 refers to the Jewish people. However, ancient rabbis never maintained that; they held that it refers to the Messiah, who would suffer for the sins of his people. The Pharisees changed that interpretation because the Christians (most of whom were Jews) were applying the ancient Jewish belief in Is 53 as referring to the Messiah, to Jesus----whom the Pharisees rejected.

The only Bible used by all Jews, from 300 yrs before Christ to about 50 yrs after Christ, was the LXX, or the Septuagint. The Talmud (Jewish oral law) even says that the LXX was a divinely inspired translation!

However, because many of the prophecies of the Messiah in the LXX sounded too much like Christ, the rabbis began suppressing the LXX amongst Jews, and developed the Masoretic Text instead.

The Masoretic Text deliberately RETRANSLATED key Messianic prophecies so as not to sound so much like Jesus. This is the Old Testament that Protestants use, btw. Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics have always stayed with the LXX. The LXX also has extra books, some of which give very dramatic prophecies of Christ, notably the Book of Wisdom.

For example, Is 7:14 says “a virgin shall conceive and bear a son”, referring to Jesus. The Greek of the LXX says “parthenos”, which means a literal virgin.

However, the Masoretic text renders it as “ha’alma”, which is “young woman” (if it had said “virgin”, it would be “ha’betulah”). This was deliberately done so Christians could not use the passage to refer to Christ. There are many other examples, too.

If you study the Letter of Justin Martyr to Trypho the Jew, you will see what early Christian fathers had to deal with along these lines.

So when MODERN Jews (who have studied or learned only MODERN Judaism), tell you that this or that Christian belief does not fit with Jewish teaching, they are right. But many Christian beliefs (such as those on the afterlife) DO fit with ANCIENT Jewish teaching.
 
Thanks Zhenia:

First let me say that Hebrew Catholics have been a huge inspiration to me so I am very pleased to be able to communicate with you. I returned to the Church about 5 years ago, and a Hebrew Catholic I saw on EWTN called Bob Fishman played a significant role in my journey.

As you suggested I just read the Letter of Justin Martyr to Trypho the Jew. Thanks for the suggestion. It is very interesting!

BTW, do you recall where in the The Talmud it says that the LXX was a divinely inspired translation.
 
Judaism does not have a set idea of the afterlife. Though If you want to read up on the Jewish perspective, read more from Hasidim.

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm

That is a good article that talks about it. Chabad website has a great library, and when I was practicing Judaism, I used their website to study.

Here is a speech on what Kabbalah teaches on the afterlife

chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/1143122/jewish/Kabbalah-on-the-Afterlife.htm
 
Hail_Linus said:
Thanks Zhenia:

First let me say that Hebrew Catholics have been a huge inspiration to me so I am very pleased to be able to communicate with you. I returned to the Church about 5 years ago, and a Hebrew Catholic I saw on EWTN called Bob Fishman played a significant role in my journey.

As you suggested I just read the Letter of Justin Martyr to Trypho the Jew. Thanks for the suggestion. It is very interesting!

BTW, do you recall where in the The Talmud it says that the LXX was a divinely inspired translation.
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Yes, in Megilla 9a there is a discussion about the LXX, and one thing the rabbis say is that God put counsel into the hearts of the translators so they would all come to the same conclusions in their translations, even though they were seated in separate rooms while translating.
 
EzraJacob said:
Judaism does not have a set idea of the afterlife. Though If you want to read up on the Jewish perspective, read more from Hasidim.

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm

That is a good article that talks about it. Chabad website has a great library, and when I was practicing Judaism, I used their website to study.

Here is a speech on what Kabbalah teaches on the afterlife

chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/1143122/jewish/Kabbalah-on-the-Afterlife.htm
Click to expand...
That is the point of this thread. Why are there so many different views on the afterlife in Judaism and none are like the ancient traditions that were similar to Christianity. Why did it begin to drastically change after Medieval times? Why do so many modern Jews claim the Christian views of the afterlife are contrary to Jewish tradition and teaching?

Zhenia has provided great insight into the issue. I wish a currently practicing Jew would give their opinion on this issue.
 
Zhenia said:
You need to understand that ANCIENT Judaism (Judaism before Christ), and MODERN Judaism (the Judaism which the Pharisees developed as a reaction to Christianity) are very different.

At the time of the destruction of the Second Temple (70 AD), there were numerous sects of Jews, but the only one that survived was the Pharisees, who were the forerunners of today’s Orthodox Judaism.

They redesigned Judaism primarily as a reaction against the Christianity of the Second Temple period, which had been wildly successful at converting Jews to a belief in Jesus.

Consequently, many of modern Judaism’s beliefs were designed as a response to Christianity. For example:

Modern rabbis teach that Isaiah 53 refers to the Jewish people. However, ancient rabbis never maintained that; they held that it refers to the Messiah, who would suffer for the sins of his people. The Pharisees changed that interpretation because the Christians (most of whom were Jews) were applying the ancient Jewish belief in Is 53 as referring to the Messiah, to Jesus----whom the Pharisees rejected.

The only Bible used by all Jews, from 300 yrs before Christ to about 50 yrs after Christ, was the LXX, or the Septuagint. The Talmud (Jewish oral law) even says that the LXX was a divinely inspired translation!

However, because many of the prophecies of the Messiah in the LXX sounded too much like Christ, the rabbis began suppressing the LXX amongst Jews, and developed the Masoretic Text instead.

The Masoretic Text deliberately RETRANSLATED key Messianic prophecies so as not to sound so much like Jesus. This is the Old Testament that Protestants use, btw. Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics have always stayed with the LXX. The LXX also has extra books, some of which give very dramatic prophecies of Christ, notably the Book of Wisdom.

For example, Is 7:14 says “a virgin shall conceive and bear a son”, referring to Jesus. The Greek of the LXX says “parthenos”, which means a literal virgin.

However, the Masoretic text renders it as “ha’alma”, which is “young woman” (if it had said “virgin”, it would be “ha’betulah”). This was deliberately done so Christians could not use the passage to refer to Christ. There are many other examples, too.

If you study the Letter of Justin Martyr to Trypho the Jew, you will see what early Christian fathers had to deal with along these lines.

So when MODERN Jews (who have studied or learned only MODERN Judaism), tell you that this or that Christian belief does not fit with Jewish teaching, they are right. But many Christian beliefs (such as those on the afterlife) DO fit with ANCIENT Jewish teaching.
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:eek: I never expected that from a religious people !!!.

Zhenia, what about “Zechariah 12” what they say about it?
 
Sam_777 said:
:eek: I never expected that from a religious people !!!.

Zhenia, what about “Zechariah 12” what they say about it?
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I just checked Zechariah 12 with my Jerusalem Bible, c 1992, Koren Publishers, Israel (not to be confused with the Roman Catholic Jerusalem Bible!), and this is how they translate Zech 12:10:

But I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Yerushalayim, the spirit of grace and of supplication: and they shall look towards me, regarding those whom the nations have thrust through. And they shall mourn for him (that is slain) as one mourns for an only son…

Notice how they re-translated it so it doesn’t sound like Jesus? This is just another excellent example of what I was talking about in my other post!

BTW I would not be shocked that “religious people” would deliberately do this to their own Scriptures. Remember that things can be translated different ways; the rabbis teach that every passage of the Torah has 70 facets, which means, 70 different ways it can be understood. I don’t know if I agree with that (70 is a big number!), but in THEIR mind, they werre simply choosing an alternate way to express the same thing.

I just find it very odd that in each of these cases, they “just happened” to remove anything that could make it sound dramatically like Christ. :rolleyes:

They have done this kind of thing before with the Talmud. The Talmud contains statements that are derogatory about Jesus and His Mother, and when Catholic clergy in the Middle Ages learned about it, they often ordered the Talmud to be burned. So the rabbis after that period removed those passages, and put them in a separate book which Jewish yeshiva students still study today; and they replaced those passages with ones referring to ‘akum’, which means “idolaters”. That way they can honestly say that the Talmud does not (any longer?) contain derogatory comments about Christ and His Mother.
 
Zhenia said:
I just checked Zechariah 12 with my Jerusalem Bible, c 1992, Koren Publishers, Israel (not to be confused with the Roman Catholic Jerusalem Bible!), and this is how they translate Zech 12:10:

But I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Yerushalayim, the spirit of grace and of supplication: and they shall look towards me, regarding those whom the nations have thrust through. And they shall mourn for him (that is slain) as one mourns for an only son…

Notice how they re-translated it so it doesn’t sound like Jesus? This is just another excellent example of what I was talking about in my other post!

BTW I would not be shocked that “religious people” would deliberately do this to their own Scriptures. Remember that things can be translated different ways; the rabbis teach that every passage of the Torah has 70 facets, which means, 70 different ways it can be understood. I don’t know if I agree with that (70 is a big number!), but in THEIR mind, they werre simply choosing an alternate way to express the same thing.

I just find it very odd that in each of these cases, they “just happened” to remove anything that could make it sound dramatically like Christ. :rolleyes:

They have done this kind of thing before with the Talmud. The Talmud contains statements that are derogatory about Jesus and His Mother, and when Catholic clergy in the Middle Ages learned about it, they often ordered the Talmud to be burned. So the rabbis after that period removed those passages, and put them in a separate book which Jewish yeshiva students still study today; and they replaced those passages with ones referring to ‘akum’, which means “idolaters”. That way they can honestly say that the Talmud does not (any longer?) contain derogatory comments about Christ and His Mother.
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:dts: That is disappointed…
 
Zhenia said:
The Talmud contains statements that are derogatory about Jesus and His Mother, and when Catholic clergy in the Middle Ages learned about it, they often ordered the Talmud to be burned. So the rabbis after that period removed those passages, and put them in a separate book which Jewish yeshiva students still study today; and they replaced those passages with ones referring to ‘akum’, which means “idolaters”. That way they can honestly say that the Talmud does not (any longer?) contain derogatory comments about Christ and His Mother.
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Wait, so this is true? I always thought it was a lie made up by anti-semites. Then again I never went to a yeshiva
 
EzraJacob said:
Wait, so this is true? I always thought it was a lie made up by anti-semites. Then again I never went to a yeshiva
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A lot of antisemites take this info and “run” with it, so to speak. But yes, its sadly true. Its why Catholic monarchs and even Popes ordered the Talmud to be burned in the Middle Ages. Normally I don’t discuss this, I only mentioned it as an example of other times when rabbis deliberately altered their own holy books for ulterior reasons.

Often, changes were made not only in Jewish religious works but also in Jewish religious practice, for the sole purpose of avoiding antisemitism. Another case is when Rabbenu Gershom banned polygamy for Ashkenazi Jews in 960 CE/AD. He did this so Gentiles would not get jealous of Jews being able to have more than one wife, and the ban was only supposed to be in effect for 500 years.
 
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