jews and christianity

[valentino]

the Jews interpret the Old Testament differently than christians do.They even interpret the Torah differently than we do.Moses was the main author of the Torah I believe.Were the Jews back then interpreting Moses wrong.They believed that there were certain individuals who had the gift of the HS who could make correct interpretaions.But obviously they were wrong.Even today they still believe certain Rabbis have the HS guiding them in the truth about how they are to live.Besides their culture why are they so persistant in their beliefs?

 

[Philotheatoo]

If you go to the Vatican website and, in the Search box type: “The Jewish People and their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible” you will find some answers to those questions.

 

[meltzerboy]

the Jews interpret the Old Testament differently than christians do.They even interpret the Torah differently than we do.Moses was the main author of the Torah I believe.Were the Jews back then interpreting Moses wrong.They believed that there were certain individuals who had the gift of the HS who could make correct interpretaions.But obviously they were wrong.Even today they still believe certain Rabbis have the HS guiding them in the truth about how they are to live.Besides their culture why are they so persistant in their beliefs?

According to the Mosaic Law of the Torah, there are 613 commandments that Jews are obligated to follow since the Torah is regarded as the eternal Law of G-d as given to Moses. Actually, today this comes to only about 300 commandments since many of them involved the rituals of the Temple, which was destroyed. Not all Jews follow even these 300 commandments: Torah (Orthodox) Jews, of various sub-branches, strive to follow all of them; but Conservative Jews follow fewer, and Reform Jews only the bare minimum. (Torah Judaism regards Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism as heretical movements not representative of real Judaism at all.) All the laws of the Torah have been divided into loving G-d and loving one’s fellow Man–the ritual laws as well as the moral laws–which is exactly the way the Rabbi Jesus summed them up. Rabbis of Torah Judaism since about 200 BCE have interpreted the nuances and subtleties of the Torah, and their interpretations can be found in the Talmud. However, the commentaries in the Talmud contain differences of interpretation regarding the applications of Mosaic Law in the modern world. Still, there are certain dogmatic beliefs that all Torah Jews, most Conservative Jews, and even many Reform Jews, abide by. These constitute the “Thirteen Principles of Faith” composed by Maimonides. Most Jews are persistent in their belief of these principles because they contain the essence of Judaism and its relation to G-d.

 

[Prophesy]

According to the Mosaic Law of the Torah, there are 613 commandments that Jews are obligated to follow since the Torah is regarded as the eternal Law of G-d as given to Moses. Actually, today this comes to only about 300 commandments since many of them involved the rituals of the Temple, which was destroyed. Not all Jews follow even these 300 commandments: Torah (Orthodox) Jews, of various sub-branches, strive to follow all of them; but Conservative Jews follow fewer, and Reform Jews only the bare minimum. (Torah Judaism regards Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism as heretical movements not representative of real Judaism at all.) All the laws of the Torah have been divided into loving G-d and loving one’s fellow Man–the ritual laws as well as the moral laws–which is exactly the way the Rabbi Jesus summed them up. Rabbis of Torah Judaism since about 200 BCE have interpreted the nuances and subtleties of the Torah, and their interpretations can be found in the Talmud. However, the commentaries in the Talmud contain differences of interpretation regarding the applications of Mosaic Law in the modern world. Still, there are certain dogmatic beliefs that all Torah Jews, most Conservative Jews, and even many Reform Jews, abide by. These constitute the “Thirteen Principles of Faith” composed by Maimonides. Most Jews are persistent in their belief of these principles because they contain the essence of Judaism and its relation to G-d.

Thanks for posting this. It was very informative.

-Prophesy

 

[meltzerboy]

Thanks for posting this. It was very informative.

-Prophesy

You’re very welcome! One correction: that should be 200 CE (200 AD), NOT 200 BCE.

 

[valentino]

metzerboy:thanks for replying.since your jewish would jews believe they would lose thieir identity or culture if they we’re to change to another faith?Obviously they would their culture but not their identity.But didn’t God constantly reprove them for not obeying His laws?Why would you want to stick so firmly with that culture that God said you were breaking?Do the Jews of today still tell their people that they are breaking God’s law.You do know that rabbi Jesus said it was impossible to keep the law.If it is impossible why do the Jews keep trying to make it possible?Is it possible to for a Jew to keep the 3oo or so laws today and if so if society keeps changing won/t that have to amend those laws again say to 2oo to get along in society?

 

[meltzerboy]

metzerboy:thanks for replying.since your jewish would jews believe they would lose thieir identity or culture if they we’re to change to another faith?Obviously they would their culture but not their identity.But didn’t God constantly reprove them for not obeying His laws?Why would you want to stick so firmly with that culture that God said you were breaking?Do the Jews of today still tell their people that they are breaking God’s law.You do know that rabbi Jesus said it was impossible to keep the law.If it is impossible why do the Jews keep trying to make it possible?Is it possible to for a Jew to keep the 3oo or so laws today and if so if society keeps changing won/t that have to amend those laws again say to 2oo to get along in society?

Actually, Moses says several times in the Jewish Bible that it is not so hard to keep the Law, and modern Torah (Orthodox) Jews who grow up following the Law as children do not consider it a burden when they reach adulthood. It’s like anything else: one grows accustomed to it so that it becomes a meaningful part of one’s life. Judaism is in fact a way of life more than a religion. Why would Jews choose to abandon a way of life which they believe in, any more than Christians would? Especially since the G-d of mercy forgives our imperfections and realizes our intentions are good. Prayer, repentance, atonement, forgiveness: these are key elements in Judaism, as they are in Christianity. So long as one strives to improve, that’s the most important thing. Jews are not reprimanded by their Rabbis for not being perfect; rather, they are encouraged to do better and be better people.

 

[valentino]

Actually, Moses says several times in the Jewish Bible that it is not so hard to keep the Law, and modern Torah (Orthodox) Jews who grow up following the Law as children do not consider it a burden when they reach adulthood. It’s like anything else: one grows accustomed to it so that it becomes a meaningful part of one’s life. Judaism is in fact a way of life more than a religion. Why would Jews choose to abandon a way of life which they believe in, any more than Christians would? Especially since the G-d of mercy forgives our imperfections and realizes our intentions are good. Prayer, repentance, atonement, forgiveness: these are key elements in Judaism, as they are in Christianity. So long as one strives to improve, that’s the most important thing. Jews are not reprimanded by their Rabbis for not being perfect; rather, they are encouraged to do better and be better people.

If it wasn’t hard to keep why did they keep breaking it and God punishing them?Did God ever get to the point where He said Isreal you’ve kept my commandments and I see that you are able to keep them and there will be no more punishments in the future?I can see why Jews would have a difficulty in becoming christian or any other faith.So I guess I hearing you say that God was happy with the Jews way of life and He wants them to continue it till the Messiah comes.By the way do the orthodox Jews still believe the Messiah will come to earth or do they look at it differently now?Also the Jews believe the Jesus came to save the Gentiles.then they must think the NT is just a made up story or at least partly false because Jesus said He came first to the Jew and then to the Gentile.I read where the Jews believe that the Holocaust was yet another punishment.Did i read this right or were these particular individuals wrong for believing that?

 

[meltzerboy]

If it wasn’t hard to keep why did they keep breaking it and God punishing them?Did God ever get to the point where He said Isreal you’ve kept my commandments and I see that you are able to keep them and there will be no more punishments in the future?I can see why Jews would have a difficulty in becoming christian or any other faith.So I guess I hearing you say that God was happy with the Jews way of life and He wants them to continue it till the Messiah comes.By the way do the orthodox Jews still believe the Messiah will come to earth or do they look at it differently now?Also the Jews believe the Jesus came to save the Gentiles.then they must think the NT is just a made up story or at least partly false because Jesus said He came first to the Jew and then to the Gentile.I read where the Jews believe that the Holocaust was yet another punishment.Did i read this right or were these particular individuals wrong for believing that?

The Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, let alone G-d. For Judaism, the Messiah is not meant to be G-d since G-d is believed to be a unique non-corporeal, spiritual entity Who cannot assume human flesh. The Unity of G-d is one of the thirteen principles of faith in Judaism. In addition, Jews insist that Jesus did not fulfill all, or any, of the conditions of the Messiah. Moses warned the Jewish people many times that anyone who claims to be the Messiah and also G-d is not the true Messiah. Neither do the Jews believe that Jesus came to save the Gentiles. (They do believe Jesus was a good man, an esteemed Rabbi, perhaps even a Prophet.) In fact, the whole notion that anyone–including the Messiah–can save someone else’s soul is foreign to Judaism. That is not regarded as the purpose of the Messiah: the purpose is to bring peace on Earth. Also, the coming of the Messiah does not terminate Jews’ obligation to follow the Mosaic Law. Most Jews are still awaiting the Messiah (again, this is one of the principles of faith), though not all Jews believe in this. With regard to salvation, Judaism believes it to be personal and dependent on one’s own good deeds; there is no such thing as salvation by proxy according to Judaism. Further, salvation is not even the main idea in Judaism. Indeed Jews are forbidden to focus on speculation regarding the afterlife; they are instructed instead to pay attention to leading a good and moral life in the here and now, and to trust in G-d to take care of the rest. The notion of an afterlife in Judaism is a somewhat later invention (which has some evidence in the Hebrew Bible), and, to this day, not all Jews believe in an afterlife even though resurrection is another of the thirteen principles of faith. Finally, the idea that the Holocaust is a punishment from G-d is not a Jewish concept at all; neither is it a Christian concept. G-d does not work that way.

I realize that you, as a Catholic and a Christian, do not have the same beliefs as I, as a Jew, have. I didn’t mean for my writing to sound like an apology for Judaism, but I was trying to answer your question the best way I can. Even though I may disagree with your most essential beliefs regarding Jesus and the Trinity, I have the greatest of respect for them, just as I have respect for other religions and their beliefs. I hope you can, too, have respect for mine.

 

[PJM]

=valentino;7971736]the Jews interpret the Old Testament differently than christians do.They even interpret the Torah differently than we do.Moses was the main author of the Torah I believe.Were the Jews back then interpreting Moses wrong.They believed that there were certain individuals who had the gift of the HS who could make correct interpretaions.But obviously they were wrong.Even today they still believe certain Rabbis have the HS guiding them in the truth about how they are to live.Besides their culture why are they so persistant in their beliefs?

Both consistancy and persistence were ingrained by God Himself [Yahweh.] It’s not soooo different today: “If you LOVE ME you will keep my Commandments.”

The issue then and now lies with Who is is Charge … you and me; or “I AM.” Change is never easy and that was a prime factor in the time of Visitation and the HUGE numbers of Miracales. God empowered His Apostles and empowers His Church in the hope [our freewill prohibits any more than this], that we will be able to “make the leap of faith” that was so lacking by so many; both then and now.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[hazcompat]

The Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, let alone G-d. For Judaism, the Messiah is not meant to be G-d since G-d is believed to be a unique non-corporeal, spiritual entity Who cannot assume human flesh. The Unity of G-d is one of the thirteen principles of faith in Judaism. In addition, Jews insist that Jesus did not fulfill all, or any, of the conditions of the Messiah. Moses warned the Jewish people many times that anyone who claims to be the Messiah and also G-d is not the true Messiah. Neither do the Jews believe that Jesus came to save the Gentiles. (They do believe Jesus was a good man, an esteemed Rabbi, perhaps even a Prophet.) In fact, the whole notion that anyone–including the Messiah–can save someone else’s soul is foreign to Judaism. That is not regarded as the purpose of the Messiah: the purpose is to bring peace on Earth. Also, the coming of the Messiah does not terminate Jews’ obligation to follow the Mosaic Law. Most Jews are still awaiting the Messiah (again, this is one of the principles of faith), though not all Jews believe in this. With regard to salvation, Judaism believes it to be personal and dependent on one’s own good deeds; there is no such thing as salvation by proxy according to Judaism. Further, salvation is not even the main idea in Judaism. Indeed Jews are forbidden to focus on speculation regarding the afterlife; they are instructed instead to pay attention to leading a good and moral life in the here and now, and to trust in G-d to take care of the rest. The notion of an afterlife in Judaism is a somewhat later invention (which has some evidence in the Hebrew Bible), and, to this day, not all Jews believe in an afterlife even though resurrection is another of the thirteen principles of faith. Finally, the idea that the Holocaust is a punishment from G-d is not a Jewish concept at all; neither is it a Christian concept. G-d does not work that way.

I realize that you, as a Catholic and a Christian, do not have the same beliefs as I, as a Jew, have. I didn’t mean for my writing to sound like an apology for Judaism, but I was trying to answer your question the best way I can. Even though I may disagree with your most essential beliefs regarding Jesus and the Trinity, I have the greatest of respect for them, just as I have respect for other religions and their beliefs. I hope you can, too, have respect for mine.

You have been gracious and patient in you responses. thank you.

peace

 

[chosen_people]

If it wasn’t hard to keep why did they keep breaking it and God punishing them?Did God ever get to the point where He said Isreal you’ve kept my commandments and I see that you are able to keep them and there will be no more punishments in the future?I can see why Jews would have a difficulty in becoming christian or any other faith.So I guess I hearing you say that God was happy with the Jews way of life and He wants them to continue it till the Messiah comes.By the way do the orthodox Jews still believe the Messiah will come to earth or do they look at it differently now?Also the Jews believe the Jesus came to save the Gentiles.then they must think the NT is just a made up story or at least partly false because Jesus said He came first to the Jew and then to the Gentile.I read where the Jews believe that the Holocaust was yet another punishment.Did i read this right or were these particular individuals wrong for believing that?

In the book of Esther the Jews are in exile in Persia, apparently abandoned by God. Evil forces are planning their destruction and they are seemingly doomed. It is only at the end of the story that we realize that behind a series of what appear to be unrelated events, was the guiding hand of God, who saves the Jews with whom He has made an eternal covenant.

So only in hindsight can we understand how God has brought the Jews from apparent desperation to something greater.

There are three major events in Jewish history.1) The going out of Egypt, receiving the Torah and coming to the promised land;2) the destruction of the second Temple and the diaspora;3) The rebirth of the nation of Israel in her land.

In each case these major events were accompanied by events that seemingly signaled punishment of the Jews. In hindsight we can see that this “punishment” brought about a fundamental and necessary change in the reformation of the Jewish people. Moses spends the last third of his life wandering in the desert, never to enter the promised land. Neither do all the people who left Egypt with him. In forty years all but the youngest have died, replaced by two new generations. However, in those forty years a new Jew has been born, freed of slavery, guided by Torah. God has established the conditions for the Jew to turn from slave to freeman, able to rule himself, to fight and win battles, to withstand paganism.

The diaspora of the Jews is accompanied not only by the destruction of the Temple but by one third of the Jewish people dying in uprisings against Rome. However, from this calamity a new Jew is born. One so committed to his Jewish identity he alone of all the ancient peoples will survive. Judaism will cause the creation of Christianity. The Christians will pass laws virtually excluding the Jews from participating in general society and in essence causing them to live in a form of autonomy. However these anti-Jewish laws will not only insure the survival of the Jewish people and prevent their assimilation but also foster the conditions for the massive intellectual development of Judaism. When the Jews begin to be allowed into general society in the 19th century they will do so from this unique advantage, fully equipped to contribute in all areas of life.

Christian anti-Semitism will lead to the Shoah. Again one third of the Jewish people will die. However, once again events will lead to the recreation of a new Jew. The diaspora Jew will be replaced by one who can understand the essence and need of the Jewish State, the meaning of “never again”. The animosity and terror surrounding the Jewish State will not only not weaken it but cause its unprecedented development.

These interrelationships come up time and again as God guides the Jewish people. The King of France contributes to the American revolution helping the Americans to defeat the British. The extra taxation will lead to the downfall of the King and his eventual replacement by Napoleon. Napoleon will bring about the changes which will lead to the beginning of the allowing of Jews into general society. This will come about in time for the Jews to begin to come to modern Zionism and participation in the events that will to their re-independence in their homeland. The first State to recognize Israel will be the United States and the United States will become Israel’s close ally.

 

[valentino]

The Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, let alone G-d. For Judaism, the Messiah is not meant to be G-d since G-d is believed to be a unique non-corporeal, spiritual entity Who cannot assume human flesh. The Unity of G-d is one of the thirteen principles of faith in Judaism. In addition, Jews insist that Jesus did not fulfill all, or any, of the conditions of the Messiah. Moses warned the Jewish people many times that anyone who claims to be the Messiah and also G-d is not the true Messiah. Neither do the Jews believe that Jesus came to save the Gentiles. (They do believe Jesus was a good man, an esteemed Rabbi, perhaps even a Prophet.) In fact, the whole notion that anyone–including the Messiah–can save someone else’s soul is foreign to Judaism. That is not regarded as the purpose of the Messiah: the purpose is to bring peace on Earth. Also, the coming of the Messiah does not terminate Jews’ obligation to follow the Mosaic Law. Most Jews are still awaiting the Messiah (again, this is one of the principles of faith), though not all Jews believe in this. With regard to salvation, Judaism believes it to be personal and dependent on one’s own good deeds; there is no such thing as salvation by proxy according to Judaism. Further, salvation is not even the main idea in Judaism. Indeed Jews are forbidden to focus on speculation regarding the afterlife; they are instructed instead to pay attention to leading a good and moral life in the here and now, and to trust in G-d to take care of the rest. The notion of an afterlife in Judaism is a somewhat later invention (which has some evidence in the Hebrew Bible), and, to this day, not all Jews believe in an afterlife even though resurrection is another of the thirteen principles of faith. Finally, the idea that the Holocaust is a punishment from G-d is not a Jewish concept at all; neither is it a Christian concept. G-d does not work that way.

I realize that you, as a Catholic and a Christian, do not have the same beliefs as I, as a Jew, have. I didn’t mean for my writing to sound like an apology for Judaism, but I was trying to answer your question the best way I can. Even though I may disagree with your most essential beliefs regarding Jesus and the Trinity, I have the greatest of respect for them, just as I have respect for other religions and their beliefs. I hope you can, too, have respect for mine.

thanks i have no intention to try to change you.Im just curious to how a true Jew feels.I read some but still have questions.So Jews feel the coming Messiah will be a sort of prophet.How will He be able to bring peace.Will He have special powers given to him by God.Moses but only much greater?what is Shoah?

 

[meltzerboy]

In the book of Esther the Jews are in exile in Persia, apparently abandoned by God. Evil forces are planning their destruction and they are seemingly doomed. It is only at the end of the story that we realize that behind a series of what appear to be unrelated events, was the guiding hand of God, who saves the Jews with whom He has made an eternal covenant.

So only in hindsight can we understand how God has brought the Jews from apparent desperation to something greater.

There are three major events in Jewish history.1) The going out of Egypt, receiving the Torah and coming to the promised land;2) the destruction of the second Temple and the diaspora;3) The rebirth of the nation of Israel in her land.

In each case these major events were accompanied by events that seemingly signaled punishment of the Jews. In hindsight we can see that this “punishment” brought about a fundamental and necessary change in the reformation of the Jewish people. Moses spends the last third of his life wandering in the desert, never to enter the promised land. Neither do all the people who left Egypt with him. In forty years all but the youngest have died, replaced by two new generations. However, in those forty years a new Jew has been born, freed of slavery, guided by Torah. God has established the conditions for the Jew to turn from slave to freeman, able to rule himself, to fight and win battles, to withstand paganism.

The diaspora of the Jews is accompanied not only by the destruction of the Temple but by one third of the Jewish people dying in uprisings against Rome. However, from this calamity a new Jew is born. One so committed to his Jewish identity he alone of all the ancient peoples will survive. Judaism will cause the creation of Christianity. The Christians will pass laws virtually excluding the Jews from participating in general society and in essence causing them to live in a form of autonomy. However these anti-Jewish laws will not only insure the survival of the Jewish people and prevent their assimilation but also foster the conditions for the massive intellectual development of Judaism. When the Jews begin to be allowed into general society in the 19th century they will do so from this unique advantage, fully equipped to contribute in all areas of life.

Christian anti-Semitism will lead to the Shoah. Again one third of the Jewish people will die. However, once again events will lead to the recreation of a new Jew. The diaspora Jew will be replaced by one who can understand the essence and need of the Jewish State, the meaning of “never again”. The animosity and terror surrounding the Jewish State will not only not weaken it but cause its unprecedented development.

These interrelationships come up time and again as God guides the Jewish people. The King of France contributes to the American revolution helping the Americans to defeat the British. The extra taxation will lead to the downfall of the King and his eventual replacement by Napoleon. Napoleon will bring about the changes which will lead to the beginning of the allowing of Jews into general society. This will come about in time for the Jews to begin to come to modern Zionism and participation in the events that will to their re-independence in their homeland. The first State to recognize Israel will be the United States and the United States will become Israel’s close ally.

Fascinating interpretation concerning the destiny of the Jewish people! The Napoleonic Code was in fact favorable to the Jews; but its connection to Zionism and the United States I had never thought of before. What was that analogy about the tempering of hot steel and G-d’s guidance of the Jewish people which a famous Rabbi once stated?

 

[meltzerboy]

thanks i have no intention to try to change you.Im just curious to how a true Jew feels.I read some but still have questions.So Jews feel the coming Messiah will be a sort of prophet.How will He be able to bring peace.Will He have special powers given to him by God.Moses but only much greater?what is Shoah?

I do appreciate your sincere questions. However I don’t want to turn the thread into a Jewish form of apologetics. Moses is considered the greatest of the Prophets so far. The Messiah is still awaited by all Torah Jews and many others as a messenger of peace from G-d; but he will still be a human being with traceable ancestry to King David. Perhaps he will be the greatest prophet, though not an angel. I have no idea in this war-torn world of ours how he will bring peace–whether through military conquest or peaceful negotiation–but surely he must be guided by the hand of G-d to do so. It is also thought–though not official doctrine–that the Messiah will not arrive until either the world is at its absolute worst or until the Jewish people fulfill more of the Torah commandments, such as every Jew’s keeping Holy one or two successive Sabbaths. The fact I am typing this post on the Sabbath is not a good sign!